Hi Marta,

It's great to see you here again.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi Alysia,

I'm registered also in the same list, and I get all the transcripts from the Elias sessions, transcribed by Bobbi, before they got finally published in the Net, in both Elias sites.

Those are the transcripts that were sent in Oct:

Oct 20.
Session #1281
"Confrontation and Validation"
"Allowing a Flexibility of Attention"

Oct 18
Session #907
"Number of Focuses"
"Identifying the Message in the Emotion"

Oct 17
Session #1278
"Creating Scenarios with other people"
"What it means to hold a Dream Walker Aspect"

Oct 11
Session #1277
"Not enough time"
"Why so many Famous Focuses"
"Individual Energy and Politics"

Now, as note, NO transcript is ever deleted, all transcripts once are appoved by the person who has the session to be transcribed...the session becomes transcribed and PUBLISHED....with Mary holding ALL copywrite rights.


Alysia, you might be a fan/student of Elias as you said, but it happens that I have read ALL the sessions, ALL the transcripts as well I had many sessions with Elias myself. Also I'm very close to many people of the Elias Group. which have become my personal friends, besides Mary herself.

Then, I'm very familiar with all the Elias information as well I'm familiar with Elias himself, through my many sessions with him, and I know not only the material very well but also Elias choice of the words, which he is VERY precise in his use.

Elias NEVER has used words that could be in contradiction with his information.

Elias has consistently said that we are not manifested here to get things right, learn, evolve or perfecting anything, that we are already perfect, that we manifest here just to experience.

I asked the number of the session, because as I said, I have read ALL the sessions, and I'm as you getting always the last sessions transcribed too, and what you posted not only I could't recal it, but I saw contradictions and expressions that are not the way Elias uses to express himself.

I'm aware that not everyone is so familiar with Elias information, and many people are unable to see what comes from Elias and what doesn't, it requires a very deep understanding and knowledge of his information, not just reading some transcripts, but being depply involved with his information in our personal experiences. I can say I'm, as I had experienced his information personally and go beyond the concepts.

You said: Hi, Elias fan/student here, he channels thru Mary, I get the transcripts, take what I need, throw out the rest.

First, Elias doesn't channel through Mary, the action that both essences are involved (plus 12 essences more) is an essence energy exchange, which is very different to the action of channeling in which all the information is filtered through the subjective self of the individual manifested physically, with generates a lot of distortion.

Secondly, there is nothing to throw out from Elias information, unless the individual doesn't want to face and recognize his/her own beliefs and assumed truths, which imply little understanding of the Elias information.

Now, how can be that precisely THIS transcript according to you has been deleted?...when NO transcript is EVER deleted once it has been transcribed, sent  and published.

I will call Mary to find out about it.

LOVE
Marta

Justin,

I appreciated your quotes too.  I would be careful with Cayce as well, however.  I have read his medical advice, treatment of lupus and other diseases which I know quite a bit about, being a physician.  He was way off on many things, in his advice.  Even that being the case, he was talking of what he knew, what his mind was familiar with.  He may have had real communication with the astral, but he had to put it into context with his world of that day.

I would have been more interested in those predictions if Cayce could have mentioned things that we see around as now - certain antibiotic, or biological antibody therapies that didn't exist at his time....

I don't think Cayce's misses invalidate his description of the higher planes, just thought I'd mention that no source is absolute.

I think you and I are in agreement that Marta was out of line, whether Alysia misquoted Elias or not.  Certainly, Elias shouldn't care.

Best regards,

Matthew

Hi Kathy,

I don't see why I have to ask via pm a simple question as the number and date of a session from which an exceprt was posted.
My question was in all honesty with NO other intention that to be able to read and recall the session.

Alysia answer was what pront me me to post what I did, she said this session has been deleted, she didn't said, I deleted, besides, any email can be recovered from the deleted box.

I don't have or need to defend Elias or NO onelse, not even myself. I'm just answering according to what it was answered to me.

Again, my post was not about defending Elias at all, he needs no defense, and not even about Alysia or anyone interpretations of the Elias information.

I don't know if Alysia made a mistake or not, if she did, she just can say it.

LOVE
Marta

Quote:


Hi Mathew et all,

 Yes, i agree, even Cayce who had very little of his consciousn ego interfere with his info (because of such a deep state, and no conscious remembrance), cannot be taken 100 percent, there is always skewing of some degree with a channel who is not of White Light Consciousness (only expresses PUL).

 Yet having studied Cayce for many years in many different subjects, i do believe he has a pretty good track record overall.

 I'm not a physician by any means, yet i have seemed to have an innate grasp and interest in health concepts my whole life.

 There is an interesting example in the E.C. Readings about a serum for cancer that this Source gave...  It was highly unorthodox for its time, as it was taken from fresh rabbits blood, and the idea was that the rabbits antibodies would help the body to fight off cancer of various types---this was given sometime in the 1930's i believe.

 Interestingly, i believe in the late 60's or early 70's (i read about this a long time ago) there were some promising studies along a very, very similar line.  

 Cayce was also helping a group of independant researchers, some of whom were engineers, to develop a perpetual motion machine through the full understanding of positive (active force) and its negative balance (passive expression of energy)..

 Unfortuneately, being independant, they didn't quite have the dough, and there were some personal issues of "intention" involved which hindered and eventually stopped the whole project (yet it was worked on quite awhile).  I'm sure any science lab could do this now, if they looked into it...  But the question is, with such a strangle hold on resources by various corporatations who are motivated primarily by profit...would this even come out?  On a side note, both Thomas Edison and Nikola Telsa received Readings from Edgar.  As well as many in the leader, or pioneer positions--this can be proven.  Cayce's Source also worked with others to develop other scientific achievments--like the individual who patented high powered fog lights--he got much advice from Cayce on this.  Cayce's own son, Edgar Evens, went onto to be instruemental in developing radar systems for the U.S. military (though technically the readings didn't help here--still interesting).

  This (the question of corruption and greed) brings me to the medical system...  While i believe that there are many sincere and service oriented people that are part of the traditional medical system...  There does seem to be a pervasive control due not only to "high standards" but rather greed--especially on part of the pharmacuetical companies, whose bottom line is always profit lol as they have a "legal responsibility" to their shareholders (yeah, who thought up that one )......

 I've researched the history of Chiropractic treatment...and whoo boy did those medical boys and big drug companies make it very, very hard on the early Chiropractors...  They were labeled everything from quacks, to charlatans, to some very not nice names...  Physicians as a whole, seem to have a lot, and i mean a lot more to learn about what really heals a body...   Many seem to be in the business of treating symptoms rather than the entire being which is composed of mind, body, and spirit.

 Cayce approached each person as an individual case, from this holistic perspective, and he oft said that true healing cannot come without a balance of this trinity.  Therefore though sometimes his info for a particular disease can be used in a universal sense, it must be remembered that each is an indivdiual and unique case, even if they have the same "label" for a disease....

 Now i have deep personal experience with both the medical system way of "healing" and with Cayce's system...

 Around 16 i developed a "mysterious", very painful, uncomfortable, and "embarrassing" condition which the good doctors labeled a "Heat Allergy".

 I went to one of the better hospitals in the country, Boston Childrens, and the good doctor treating me just seemed to scratch his head a lot, and basically said.."um...we don't know what causes this and its very rare...but here you go, take some meds these will help."

 These meds were basically powerful anti-histamines, which supposedly also had a mood elevating effect as well.  Yeah, well they certainly lessed the appearance of these ultra painful and complete bodily hives, but they didn't affect the pain one bit.

  It was treating a symptom which they had very little understanding of...   Now, being a depressed teenager, i had just gotten off prozac which interestingly when i was taken this, is around the time i started to develope this "heat allergy", and my then minor psoriasis was also worse and spreading...

 Not too long after being holed up in my room all winter, and being completely stagnant and feeling like i was going to go crazy, or kill myself...  I "magically" came upon a great Cayce book on health...and i devoured this large book in hours...and it made so much sense from a practical common reasoning point....

 Now i was 16 at the time, yet i was a very, very deep and bright lad--a near genius as i was told by many.   Both very intelligent and very intutive which any so called "genius" type is...this is what makes a person this way, a very good, innate, and uncommon balance between the left and right brain functions (also i am very feminine and masculine-balanced).

Well through a little hard work, self discipline, extreme diet changes, meditation, forgiving others and myself, and a regimented exercise program....  I healed not only my mysterious heat allergy, but also my depression...all due to the simple and make-sense advice on holistic health that Cayce gave...  None of the good doctors came even close..

 So yes, i have a bit of attachment to Cayce's info, and i understand it very well, but i am always synthesizing other reliable info in with my Cayce base...  I do not take it a 100%, but feel it comes close to be sure, and oft when people think a lot of it is "bunk" they just haven't looked deeply or holistically enough into it...   I've seen this many times with the various prophetic info that Cayce gave out.

 Yet many things his Source gave about the future, were 100 percent accurate, and some are still in the developing and we shall see soon enough how accurate he was.

 Medically, for another example take psoriasis which i have....  Medical doctors say this is primiarly genetic, and there is no cure for it (seems to be there battle cry for a lot).  Yet, why does a well known Chiropractic Doctor (Pagano), who has studied the Cayce Readings and who wrote a book called, "Healing Psoriasis", have almost a 100 percent rate of healing others with this dis-ease, when they follow his advice to a Tee which is completely based on diet, eliminations, attitude, and spinal adjustments?

Hmmm.... another very interesting thing...  I also successfully can heal my psoriasis through diet, relaxation, and herbal teas....  Yet, i haven't healed it completely just through lack of self discipline and the necessary will power....and quite frankly, i need some colonics and these are expensive! 8)  

Sometimes I wonder if there are some earth bound spirits who used to be a fake Guru, teacher, preacher etc.; and in order to get more of the attention they sought as a Guru, they channell themselves through an unsuspecting person.  

Such a spirit wouldn't necessarily be an incarnation of evil, just a spirit that likes to have an adoring audience.

I don't mean to imply that all Gurus or all channelled entities are fake. However, it doesn't make sense to trust all of them.

By the way, I like how Rosalind Mcknight's book speaks of Jesus.  It speaks of him in a very loving way. It doesn't support Seth's non-crucifixion idea. That whole thing about drugging a guy who took his place, just doesn't sit right with me. I can't say I know, but it sure doesn't feel right.

Sometimes a spirit used Rosalind's body to speak to Robert Monroe. The manner in which channelling was done in her case, feels okay to me. She didn't become unconscious. She watched her body as it was used for a short while.

Marta, yes, anything can be retrieved from the deleted file. BUT, if that file has been emptied, then there is no way to get it back. At least not on my computer.  I get so many emails that I empty my deleted folder daily and sometimes more than once.

Namaste`
Mairlyn

I was just wondering Alysia. 

Quote:


I know, I was just getting something off my chest...nothing personal. I like you. alysia

Well Pabloescabar aka Axel dear

It's your style no doubt about it, some may remember one of your alias, wich you are admited,  you are the one with a habit spreading venom about the "stupid" Alysia (who you also contacted many time)  and liars like Marylin, Gordon Phinn, Rosalind just name the few, and the rest, so your attitude now it isn't really a surprise.

For months and month both of you -  you for years bombarded  Marta with endless questions over and over and over again both privatelly and on the board , as you did with several from here also. You the one who need to follow others, nobody asked you to come to Marta, your friend still using the same informations word by word what both of you learned from her, and of course  from the fraud.
Marta didn't needed  either of your wisdom, it was very one sided conversation from day one.

When you come to our board  you didn't even know that Seth is a person or served on the plate.

You learned from Marta mostly, of course it was her choice, even though after several of your post in this board as alias should of been a red flag for her.That already showed who you really are. Just matter of time who you turn your immature hiss toward the next person who might already wasting time on you.



Far as the so called "attack" and just few of your and your friend posts, what can be read if anyone care

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm2.showMessage?topicID=190....

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm2.showMessage?topicID=176....

http://p206.ezboard.com/fthewaytoselfknowledge93906frm8.showMessage?topicID=47.t...

http://p206.ezboard.com/bthewaytoselfknowledge93906

Dora and Marta think that they know everything and everyone else nothing. How many time did they repeat what Marylias said in making mistakes? Then,as they misunderstood the info, they had to REREAD the session with the correct information  lol
I am not grateful to Marta and even less to Dora. Grateful for what? For their attacks and insults? For their hatred? There is nothing to learn from them. But at least everyone realizes that they dont believe in any of the concepts they used to mention like "acceptance" or " You create ALL OF YOUR REALITY"...   Dora and Marta, you created Gerald and me!  Dora, hurry up and pick up a quote from Marylias and paste it here    You defenitely have no personality whatsoever

so what.


Axel is emotional. In fact elias told axel alot of things about himself.

But basically, what happened is that Axel convinced himself he could do the same thing as mary does . He said he could become 'eliasified', and thats the word he used.  And he'd have his girlfriend ask him questions and supposedly become 'eliasified' and answer them.  
So, according to his logic, if he could do that, then mary is a fraud, somehow.
But how, and why?  that was his problem.  he believed that it was a fruad, so using that belief began looking for the how elias is a fraud, and the why.

Now, this is where his reasoning breaks down, which is why i think he's got nothing on elias. Because, he found this event in the transcripts (session 294, i think...)where elias was asked by a person named nancy, for him to repeat her essence name because at that last session where she asked the first time, was a group session, and elias had given out many essence names to people at one time and she wasnt sure which name belonged to her.  Elias would not repeat the essence name to her. And he gave her a reason in which she understood.
Axel didnt understand why elias would not repeat her essence name to her, and built this into how that makes elias a fraud.

Now the why, is because of the same old same old. Axel thinks mary's motive is to get rich.

Now,ill share you an email i got a hold of that Axel sent Mary herself:

"Hi Mary!
>
> I had a session with YOU in July and i have read a lot afterwards about you and Elias. A lot of doubts have appeared in my mind and other's minds and
> i think that ELIAS does not exist and that you fake everything.
> What a great business you do! You must be really rich now. You read for years the Seth material and learned it by heart, and then changed some of it to try to "sound" different...But actually you just parrot what Seth said.
It is easy to see that Elias doesnt exist because you never answer questions like "what is my intent in this focus" or things like this because you dont know! At times you cant answer if someone asks you the essence name again
> LOL
It is only because you didnt reread the informations properly before the session!
A lot of money is involved in this "Elias business". Why would you charge so much money and have 5 or 6 sessions per day if Elias really existed?
Because Money! You love money!
I am going to write to all the people knowing Elias and try to show them that Elias is actually YOU and only you. I really hope that people will stop calling you and giving you their money . Shame on you."



So you see. Imo Axels reasons are quite lame. in fact he makes little attempt to actually challenge or understand the information itself.

Just recent to these events axel was saying all the time how much he loved elias, and then pretty suddenly thought he was a fraud.
This i may think have something to do with his french connection/ Gerald.  Gerald is another one who makes the same assertion and he was a memebr of the self knowledge baord too.  he is one that thinks elias is a fraud but uses elias terms and concepts all the time. I donrt want to get into gerald, right now.

I insulted them both, so , in that respect they have that problem with me.  marta and dora never once as far as i can recall ever did anything but answer their questions using their understanding of the elias concepts.

What i said to them ... I called gerald a Sucker, And i told Axel to run along a suckle his thumb.
Beacuse
They have nothing on elias or mary.  And their claims are about as weak as they get.  

  I think that if you want to give readings, and you don't have many clients, then you perhaps should charge more out of practical necessity.

  But, if you become very popular, and book many sessions per week, then why not lower your fees correspondingly?

Otherwise, it just smacks of sheer material greed.

  One thing i really respect about Linn from here, is that she doesn't charge a lot, and i can't ever seeing her charge an arm and a leg...for what, to be helpful to others, thats a reward and compensation in and of itself.

Dear Sweetfire,

Just try to reach your gran. That's what this board is really all about.  You have a lot of help to do that!
That's all Bruce was trying to do when he developed this board for us.

Love, Jean

Quote:


pheonix
its 270 an hour.... regular oracle rates....

Though, from what i see about mary shes not material at all.  She lives in a modest house that needs repair and wears shi++y clothes just like me...lol.  you can see pictures of mary's enviroment if you look on those two elias sites

it seems alot for a session but i think thats just to weed out the a holes that would be calling her 20 times a week  if it was ten or twenty bucks an hour. or especially if it was free.

in contrast to that syvlia psychic who tells everyone they have a disease and lives quite lavishly with her longer than normal finger nails and all...the contrast is striking. so, its not about the money in this elias thing and i cant even say for sure how much she(mary) makes....no where near sylvia browne , no way
Though,. I think mary will eventually be 10 times more famous and ten times less wealthy.

Quote:


well, why will i keep answering your questions if you hold strong feelings about this, that you wont go into?
....you have an issue with it that you wont go into?

I dont care what she does with her money, or is it my business, really.  All i know is shes not driving around in a limo in a gated community or seem to be living like a person who makes as much as you think. or is really concerned with material things.

Nor do i think she read seth and develpoed such an understanding of seth that she was able to expand on what seth said and become a fraudulent channeler this way.
you can read some her sessions when its her speaking to a group and see that she herself is trying to understand and impliment elias concepts as is anyone else who reads elias.

people i think would benifit from actually doing some work and doing at least some detective work for themselves before a stereotypical generalization is applied to mary.
but again, its not my problem really, its yours pheonix, and axel, and gerald. and all anyone has is the money issue.

so let me know when you have something substantial, all these accusations about the money thing is really boring and quite besides the point.

she makes less than the president and the pope so maybe that will help you sleep better at night.

Axel,

You can look at this situation in several ways.  Firstly, if an essence or an entity is discarnate, do they necessarily have more of an open phone line to a divine truth than you or I?  If they do, on what grounds do we base that on?  Robert Bruce, the astral adept has said he finds discarnate human entities all the time, trying to speak or have an effect on the physical world or offer advice.  Yet they are not necessarily more wise than anyone else.  (In fact he advises avoiding them altogether and not mistaking them for angels).  Tne assumption that we all make with a channeling is that the information must be better somehow than that given by people in the flesh, because they have experienced death, or moved on to a higher realm of consciousness.

This may or may not be the case.  With regard to Mary/Elias, I truly don't know - although I have seen the video of a channeling and read through quite a bit of the material on the web.  But either way you look at it, the teachings are a source of information; one which may be analyzed and digested.  If you disagree with some of the notions and teachings, a M/E follower might say that is because you don't "get it," or don't understand.  Why is that?  Why does any channeled source have to give out perfect and truthful advice every time?  Lord knows we human beings make mistakes.  Discarnate entities might too.  I say take from readings that which suits you.  I know I and Alysia have said the same thing about that.

I don't think anything useful will come of wondering why Mary charges whatever amount per channeling, etc.  The cards will fall where they will anyway.  I think for anyone interested though, look through the posts of those involved here on the board.  They are very revealing to any who would go back and read them.

Matthew

Quote:


great point Doc, this is one of the common misconceptions, that you, or I ,or a channeled essence are infallible, or should be absolutely perfect according to a persons guidelines.
The funny thing is if that if axel doesnt believe in elias, then why this whole crusade to try to make everyone else believe what he does.
who is Axel? is axel infallibly correct? is what axel says an absolute?  heheh, axel, take your advice, get a life.

If Elias is correct in saying that our only purpose is to "experience" things, and not to learn, then there is no purpose whatsoever in the life review.

The life review is the ultimate learning tool.  It shows us the good, bad and the ugly about our life.  It even allows us to feel the emotions we caused in others by our words and actions. 

Many authors refer to the life review.  Even Seth.  So obviously, Seth and Elias are not on the same page. 

I think Johnny Cash must have believed in Elias.  After all, he "shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."  I'm sure Elias wouldn't have had any problem with that, heck we're here just to experience, and watching someone die is a pretty awesome experience. 

Well, it's awesome except for the guy who was shot.....

The problem with believing in channelled material is that if you read it carefully, you'll find all sorts of contradictions.  And if the sources are really highly advanced spiritual entities, these kinds of contradictions just shouldn't occur.   Elias says we're already perfect, and Seth clearly says earth is a school.

Sorry folks, you can't have it both ways.

"Elias said that though seths message was profound, it was delivered into the mass held beliefs of that time.  therefore he used ideas common to that time."

Athough much of the Seth material is related to string theory and quantum mechanics, which certainly are more of a belief system now than when Seth was written, you nevertheless have a good point.

Our society has changed in one major way, in that actions no longer have consequences, or at least not as much as they used to even a relatively short time ago.  Today, no one is guilty of anything.  It's all the fault of someone or something else. 

So, taking your point, I agree that Elias would have more acceptance today than even when Seth was published.  Elias most definitely would have strong appeal to those folks who like the idea that we are here just to "experience" things.  After all, the whole concept of good and bad kind of goes away under that philosophy.  Accountability?  Hey not to worry.  Everything's ok. 

From that point of view, ACIM was ahead of its time.  It was published in roughly the same timeframe as Seth, but it also tells us that guilt is an old fashioned notion.  It simply doesn't exist, because there is no evil.  Evil acts are just an illusion.  So why feel guilt about something that never really happened?  Hitler and Mother Teresa?  No difference.

People have absolutely no idea who or what Elias or Seth is, and yet they are willing to accept everything and anything they say.  What would Elias say about the Golden Rule?  Should we do onto others as we would have them do onto us?  Or should we just do as we wish, because our purpose here on earth is really to experience things?

I guess we all have to make up our own minds.  Let's just hope we know what we're doing.

M-

There's a lot of wisdom in your post.  It's so easy to get entrapped in new age stuff because it can be so enticing.  It takes us off the hook.  It's kind of like being told that you can eat all the chocolate donuts you want and guess what?  You won't gain an ounce.  Not only that, you will be healthier for doing so.

Who would want to go on a dull dietary program and an exercise regime if we are told we really don't have to in order to lose weight?  Tempting for sure.  Thing is, there really aren't any shortcuts in life.  We can choose to either learn our lessons now or learn them later. 

It's interesting how some of the Elias fans convey so much anger in their posts.  And also quite revealing when you think about it.

ELIAS: “A ‘want’ is a belief system! You only want what you do not have, for you are influenced by belief systems which tell you that what you have is not adequate or that your experience is not adequate. Therefore, you ‘want’ a different experience. This is a direct influence of belief systems. If you are accepting that you are manifest for experience, and if you are trusting in your choices of probabilities and trusting of self, you eliminate want; but as you are not accepting of self and of experience, you translate into the belief system of wanting, for you translate into the belief system of ‘better.’ There is something beyond or better than what you experience presently; although within your drama you experience the illusion, for you do not allow yourself the experience of the now. You experience what you perceive to be already created or not yet created.

BOB#1: Expectation.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, you are projecting yourself into illusion and experiencing the drama of the illusion, whereas the reality is within the now.” [session 151, February 02, 1997]

ELIAS: “Your purpose, as we have expressed, is to experience; but you are correct that within each individual focus you also hold individual intents, and as you hold these intents you create desires, and within this you create probabilities to choose from within a pool aligning with your intent.”

Justin/Razz, I know u are the same person so please choose one or the other identity so it's less confusing for the rest of us. I find your contributions are valuable, however posting up previously published authors works is discouraged here, we could get in trouble with copyright laws and I am quoting Bruce's guidelines, not my own.
I used to do this too and spirit just told me I had to learn to put communications into my own words. People want to know who "you" are, not who somebody else is.

I hope you do not take offense. I really like you. alysia

  Well in my own example, i've found that one of the best ways for me to really value and have true 'worth' for self, was to try to value, tolerate, and respect others more.

  Yeah, its called Like attracts Like and everything in the Uni/Multi Verse is subject to this Law.

  The more you try to love others, the more you will love yourself, and the more you love yourself, the more you will love others basically.

  That, and some health/dietary changes, is the only thing which got me out of a severe, want to kill myself always, for more than 10 years depression.

  Elias is full of crap, and if a real Entity at all, needs to incarnate, prove its expanded awareness and all that like REAL spiritual teachers have done, living as an EXAMPLE for others....because examples as teaching is always so much more powerful than just flowery words.  Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Yogannanda, and many others like that?   Yeah, they put their effort where their all so vaunted "beliefs" were.  I would love to see Elias do and go through what MLK, and other real teachers went through.

  Instead, i hear just a lot of philosophical, rehashed stuff, a blend of philosophy which can be found from various times and climes.  And so very pleasing to the ego....

Raz wrote, Quote:


  All Beings/Consciousnesses/Essences have standard by which they judge themselves--PUL.  When they get "closer" to this standard, by using their freewill to choose for them and from their individual perspective, this type of Beingess and energy, then they will start to move beyond judgment, but even then because of the interaction of the relative, changing reality with this One absolute (and Oneness is Absolute), there is still a standard.   

  Hey, your ego doesn't like this, i understand this well myself, but i doubt you will ever actualize your full creative potential going by Elias's specific guidelines, etc.

  Maybe try mixing up some Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, etc. teachings, cause these were people who not only talked the talk, but walked the walk?  Ah, but thats the problem, the ego doesn't like these teachings, and always goes out of its way to avoid such Universal principles...cause it must keep its temporal self alive.....

Now this is something i've asked Dora, and which she completely side stepped.

  If you can create your reality so perfectly, and throw out the whole understanding of unconsicous, conscious, and superconscious and all that....

  And if everything is Essence and all that, and your beliefs create your reality...

  Then whats to stop you from walking on water, changing water into wine, and other seemingly miraculous stuff like that?  In my book its very possible with the meeting of the right conditions, which i haven't fully met yet.

  Bet you can't create these realities for you no matter how hard you try

  But some can, and why can some, and not others create or actualize their thoughts, intentions, etc. into their physical reality?  I mean after all, isn't so called physical reality just another thought construct, or something similar along those lines?

   Hmmm, mabye cause some live and believe in that standard, that One Absolute, of Oneness......

Quote:


  Alysia, i also told you that i'm not Raz.  Why do you continue to believe this?  Again, go talk to Bruce as he might be able to clear things up for you a bit.

   Consistent meditation is a great thing, a great healer for people, helps one to clear ones energy more and more.

  With Love,
  Justin

Quote:


oh, one more thing, before i go to work, ill leave it to you, Justin, to show examples of when elias is judgemental, unappreciative, unaccepting of anyone in the material.  Elias does practice what he preaches.  So the burden of proof is on you to show ow elias is full of crap in this respect.

Raz,

Reread my last post, and answer me yourself.  Don't paste and clip Mary to me, please.  I did not talk about responsibility.  I talked of purpose other than to just experience.  We can look at specific case histories of real people and see that there is purpose in life other than experience. 

I am truly starting to think that Mary's posts/transcripts are more than a diversion or thought provoking; I think that they may be truly harmful a la Reverend Jim Jones.  Raz if Mary says to drink tainted Kool Aid - don't do it!

Many have had communications with other forms of consciousness.  I see no proof to back up Mary's statements about her philosophy other than the notion that Elias (fake or real) somehow is a more highly evolved consciousness.  Many other communications from discarnate entities don't agree with Elias-speak.  Hmmmm......so why do we lend credence to Mary (those that do?)

Raz, respond to my post.  Why should my son not drop out of school, do and sell drugs, and say what the f--- if we are all here to experience.  Elias-speak on responsibility does not adequately answer this question.  Maybe you can.  Ah, and then maybe, just maybe, Matthew and Raz will have a discussion with each other.  Maybe Mary will be left to her own then!

Matthew

Alysia-

Did Spirit also tell you that Justin and Raz are the same person?  Is that how you "know" that?

Seems to me an apology is in order.

Hi Ronedale and Matthew,

  I think for some reason she thinks i'm playing both sides?

  What is crystal clear is that i have a completely different writing style and generally a much different "tone", which can be quite serious, or quite flippant and unserious.

  My vocab is more extensive, i'm constantly relating and interweaving many various sources and particularly my favs. Cayce, McKnight, Moen, some Monroe, numerology, astrology, my own guidance, holistic health concepts, etc.

  I can be controversial, but it seems that Raz has built himself quite the fixed image of being controversial, and it sounds like Raz is a very 'thinking' type, and not so much the mystic, feeling type as i am.

  Either way, the truth doesn't need defense, though i appreciate the sentiment on both your parts. 

Peace

Quote:


Okay... we can clear this up.  I can send Bruce all of the IP numbers you have ever used when posting at Linn's.

Shall I do that?

Kathy

Quote:


 Hi Rondele,

 I'm not completely sure, but i think Kathy may just be trying to help.  


 Hi Kathy,

 As i said earlier, in this case the truth needs no defense, and have a hard time believing Bruce really cares about the drama here when people aren't extremely breaking any major guidelines?

 Personally i'm a little tired of the drama, and if Bruce cares then sure go ahead an give him the previous IP's.  For all i care, you could post these here, and Bruce post Raz's and/or Rob from detroit (this is who Raz claims to be).  

 Bruce personally knows (or at least i told this too him a long time ago, back last Decem. or Jan.) that i use to have to use Library computers up until a little while ago when i got my own I-net connection (about 3 months ago, or so).

 Anyways, i appreciate the concern if this is from a positive motivation, and if not, its not my concern i guess.

Peace

 

Ok, justin, if thats your real name...


Quote:


thats is funny in light of all this sceptisim and especially in what the doc just said:
Quote:


This apprreciation and acceptance and non-judgemental-ness of elias i think scares him:)

Quote:


Are you blind? Elias offers plenty of criticism. Ask berserker.  Elias and seth practically criticise most of our mass held beliefs.
though he doesnt say to an individual they are crap for holding these mass held beliefs.
and Both seth and elias explain negativity well.

Quote:


ok, again this is covered in the material.  Look up the engaging in conflict exercise on the elias site.

Quote:


I truly dont see what your problem is with elias.

  Quote:


yeap, covered.

Quote:


very good.

though, if there wasnt so much objection i could of given you quotes from elias showing you how your basically in line with what he says only your terms and the way you express these ideas are differnet.

oh what the hell, heres one little tiny elias quote:

ELIAS: “I am what you are. I am the same as you. I am an energy personality essence, in like manner to yourself. You also are an energy personality essence, but you choose to be focusing your attention within the exploration of physical dimensions. I choose not, presently. I hold a remembrance and you have forgotten, and this is the difference, and beyond this, what I am is the same as what you are.” (Smiling)

 Raz wrote, Elias offers plenty of criticism. Ask berserker.  Elias and seth practically criticise most of our mass held beliefs.
though he doesnt say to an individual they are crap for holding these mass held beliefs.
and Both seth and elias explain negativity well.

 Hmmm, seeing as this was in reference to something i said about Cayce, and peoples experience with this source, it seems to imply that Cayce's Source was telling people they were crap for holding certain beliefs?

 Well, either way, from what i have studied in the readings, Cayce's source magnified the best in people, and even if a person was choosing to be very negative, the Source would look for a positive aspect within that person to spring on.

 Yet, at the same time, this Source occasionally impersonally criticized people..well more specifically not them, but how they were acting.

 Its like the difference between saying, "you're a bleepity bleep!" or calmly saying, "you're acting like a bleepity bleep right now"...

 One is a much more "absolute" statement about the very beingness of the person, and this is the very definition of "judging" of which Jesus so warned us about, if we didn't want to suffer anymore, and to be "judged" in turn.

 The latter is making a detached statement about the temporary choices and ways of the person.  In the case of Cayce's source, it was designed to help them see unconscious and unregenerated negative tendencies of which they were not very honest about...

 As long as it remained unconscious, and as long as they continued not to face self, and these tendencies...they wouldn't fully grow to their full spiritual potential--that standard of Oneness again.

 The Source was motivated by a helpful intent, motivation, and its that oh so subtle Spirit in which you do something which matters much more than the actual appearance of "action" or what have you.

 Ones stating a perception for universally helpful purposes, but what most seem to do, most of the time is to judge.

 We have faculities of perception for a reason, and there is nothing wrong with perceiving any aspect of the Relative reality in its relation to the One absolute standard of Oneness.

 It's when negative emotions, ego, and not seeing the Real self of another as well as the relative manifestations of the false self, and one could say at the expense of...which hinders both us and them, and the collective...

 Again, its always about the collective.

 Now without any emotion, but just clear feeling and thought and with a desire to help you, i can tell you certain seemingly "negative" things about you and how you are being, without attracting suffering on my part, or what some term creating negative Karma.

 No, i'm not going to do it, but was just making a point.  

 The closer the individual Essence, or consciousness gets its inner frequencies to resonate (through freewill choice) to the energy of that standard--Oneness/Universal Love, which can be thought of White Light, the more they can "look" into you accurately and clearly, and see what would help you, and how you choose right from wrong according to your degree of Light.

 I recently personally criticized some people on this site.  Most of it was not judging but stating perceptions, yet i realized that i'm not "close" enough to that White Light energy to be as helpful as possible, and i should ignore this facet of helping people until i know i am "there".

 Because most of it was not judging, i didn't get that automatic feel bad, and unhappy type feeling when i said those things...  At some points, i was more judging, and so correspondingly, my state of being reacted by suffering and feeling not too good about myself.

 Sadness, confusion, worry, doubt, etc. are all manifestations of ego and choosing false self over real self..  When you judge someone, you are choosing false self over real self, and will suffer.

 How fast and intensely you suffer, depends on your vibratory rate, and attunement to the Field (as Bruce calls it), people that are very attuned, or resonate more or less harmoniously with the Fields energy, will feel things much faster and more intensely...

 A karmic friend of mine once blasted me with some "perceptions" about me via email, which were really judgements, and unconscious negative feelings which they had been feeling towards me for awhile to varying degrees of consciousness and/or intensity...

 Guess what happened, a day after, they became intensely sick with food poisoning.

 Because they are of a more expanded consciousness and someone who meditates oft, their very conscience and energy balance rebelled against their body forces, temp. creating inharmony within the body, and weakening it...

 Love, or Oneness feelings on the other hand, can only eventually strengthen and harmonize a body...and if someone attunes enough to the One Field, then they can heal others through their very harmonious energy emanations, or "quantum waves of coherence and order".

 Light, basically they can radiate ever more brilliant and amplified Light waves, which is of the energy of Life, of Source itself--what Cayce's Source called "The Creative Forces".

 My friend should have realized this, and seen for their own good their unconscious belief systems about me, but they seem to fear to be that self honest, and to face the false self...cause why?  Its initially painful to face ones false self, and realize certain things about self.

 And at every turn, my friend contradicted themselves and preached against non "negative" perception and judgment of others, and that we shouldn't try to "teach" others, but sure didn't mind to offer to teach me, and rather consistently i might add.  Strange the difference between preaching, and putting it into practice?

  Consistent contradiction is often a clear indication of coming more from one's false self as well. 

  Well, either way, our Disks will all eventually get it "right" and then truly move beyond right and wrong...and then they can only choose love, and every act, thought, feeling, etc. becomes one of love.

I think Alysia needs to close the loop in her allegation re. the two Subject posters. 

If she is right, that needs to be so stated.  If wrong,  an apology is most certainly needed.

Unfortunately this is not the first case where things were posted about some board members which were not only incorrect but highly inappropriate to post even if they were true.

And to this day, months later, an apology still hasn't been offered.

I have felt the same way at times, Marilyn.  But I feel that life is messy, and sometimes a healthy debate gets a good resolution.  I haven't had one with the Mary/Elias crew, because they are here to "experience" or cut and paste Mary responses to my questions (instead of give their own explanations).  Ah, well.  

To say the teenager who falls into drugs and debases himself/herself has just decided to "experience" that - let them do it....and to say that notions of PUL and divinity are just beliefs, not particularly a path to follow or to aspire to is bunk in my book.   And yes, many posters have commented on the M/E crowd's anger and self-centeredness in their posts.

Elias is a feel good philosophy, consistent with itself.  "you are not here to learn anything"  
"you are only here to experience."   So simple.  Sounds good right?  Maybe for some.  

So yes, if Marta or Raz are impressed with the consistency Mary has whipped up, Bravo.  Its consistent.  Consistency without love/heart/soul/purpose is not what I'm looking for, however.  

I am looking for further posts from Marilyn, Marta (without quotes), Dave, Kathy, Justin and even Don.  I enjoy conversations with many others as well (Chilipep., Spitfire).  If I can't get into the deeper conversations on this forum, it will lose its appeal for me as well.  

Matthew

  I agree with Ronedele about stuff happening awhile ago.

  I want to publically apologize to everyone here about bringing up such personal issues on this site previously under the posting name Justin2710.  This wasn't the place for it, and was disrespectful to other posters, and to Bruce.  On a personal level, i realized it's best not too point out the false self tendencies of others until this consciousness is more clear and White Light immersed myself.

  So, i've been trying to stick more to impersonal concepts, beliefs, and teaching comparisons.

  Appreciate your patience with me.

  Hi Mair,

  Whereas i see where you are coming from, i really don't see that much negativity here.   Why judge it so much?  It is what it is, and whose to say that in the long run it isn't of benefit?

  Things cannot always be 100 percent peaceful, agreeing, and super nice all the time.  We are NOT all Masters, and should not be forced to act in that manner, this is how we live and learn, by our mistakes.

  Its not just that Alysia said something once, she has restated her false accusation, and on some level seems to be wanting to start some trouble.  On a personal level, her knowing how much i'm going through lately, and doing this shows how much she is suffering to try to add to another person's plate of difficulty.  I'm trying to look past this aspect of her and hold her in the Light of her True Self.

  And its a good thing (for me) i've regained my center and detachedness, and am not taking it personally.

  However, on a practical, teaching level, i am abiding by the rules again, and there were people who complained to Bruce when i was not abiding by the rules here, well i was told flatly, justly, and impersonally that this is not the place.    I agreed, and out of a bit of hurt and self pity, i thought i should leave since it seemed few "accepted" me here. 

  I realized that was the way of ego, and running away (so Rob was partly right there), and while i don't fully accept my attachment to these sites, and to the need for communication, regardless i feel the need to express.

  Also consider the average, or Archetypal differences between women and men.
Men tend to debate more, because they tend to be more left brained and about ideas, thoughts, and concepts.   They on average, can detach more from their emotions in these kinds of things.

  Women (not all, but on average) tend not to debate as much, and tend to need "peace' more, and they have a harder time detaching from their emotions in situations like these.

  Basically, there just different ways of expressing, and ones not better than the other, as in all things balance is to be desired.   Sometimes its better to shut ones trap, to listen, or to just support, and find something to agree on.   Other times its best to impersonally debate and disagree, and to be very active in expressing.


  Hi Raz,

  Ok, well thanks for the interest, and the debate either way.   Hopefully we clarified some stuff for others here.


  Hi Rob,

  What i don't understand about this whole situation, is that i have posting to this site previous to my name change, for a year.   If one reads all my posts, they may see a pattern of mostly positivity, support, relating, and expanding upon concepts and beliefs.   Only for that recent period did i get consistently personal.

  Everyone seemed to forget about the old Justin quite easily, the one who just tried to help, and relate impersonally.   

  Same thing on Linn's site, posted a half a year there, and generally quite positive.   After the drama, and if i was as immature as people are trying to accuse me of, why didn't i go over to Linn's site and start to cause some trouble there?

  I have no interest in that, simply cause i'm much more mature than that.

   Like me, Alysia needs to worry more about herself, and how well or not she is putting forth PUL, instead of concentrating on others.

  I don't think "credibility" is an issue here, and i don't need an apology from her, because i know the real issue is "suffering" and acting out from suffering.   I have much compassion for her lately, from seeing more varibles than i did previously.

  Thanks DocM, Alysia, Rondele, Mair, Raz, P.A., and Rob, and hopefully we can drop this silly debate soon, its getting old and boring... Onto bigger and better stuff

 Mair, perhaps it is more reflecting the clearing that needs to take place, and is taking place for the changes?

If thats the case, then in the long run, isn't it a very positive thing?

 Its like we have had all this underground negativity, corruptness, greed, selfishness in the world for so long and it was the majority way...

 Now things are changing, and this stuff is coming out more and more, and being shown clearly, and i believe this is very important for growth.

 Like in the U.S. how all this recent stuff about the abuses and corruptness of various Corporations are coming out more and more and more people are starting to become deeply aware of the dark part of us and our society.

 This needs to happen on all levels...  This board, is just acting as a reflector of this clearing, and this is a microcosmic clearning of the more expanded and collective macrocosmic clearing.

 We are getting close to some intense waves in the changes, and so things are getting more intense, and will get even more intense in relationships of all kinds.

 Basically, just worry about holding your center, is the best advice i could give, that and meditation--the time tested way of balance and attuning, that even Jesus needed to do...

Quote:


Justin, thank you so much for this. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. (Or however that goes LOL)

OK, so the whole forum is clearing/cleansing. Now that I can resonate with and understand.  

Much Love,
Mairlyn  

Ok, lets talk intents for a second.
Since we have discussed our purpose is to experience.
Our intent to experience may follow a common theme with eachother which is why you can see a like attracts like in relationships.

Now, this will require a use of elias material to show this connection in which why you think justin is me and vice versa.
And these are my impressions though they dont constitute as absolutes because im not justin, though I recognize his intents.
So, my impression is justin is Sumafi/Sumari
As am I. Elias calls these essence family intents.
Now, i will post these descriptions and i want to know from you guys whether this is accurate.

first, sumafi:
Elias: "I will explain to you, this family incorporates the focus of teaching. It incorporates teachers of every element and every subject of your existence. Many who manifest being a part of this family will be individuals connected with universities. They may be aligned with museums, they may be religious leaders, they may be within government; any area of society that incorporates any element of teaching, you will find these individuals.

In other time periods within your history, they have been ‘keepers of knowledge.’ They have manifest as scribes. Many have chosen religious-focuses. They are quite intent upon keeping truths. Their intent also is in the direction of the least distortion. Therefore, within any element of teaching, they strive to incorporate the least distortion, the most original, the most pure.

These essences also, of Sumafi, I will express, are playful. They do not incorporate the seriousness that you think of, within physical focus, of ‘solemn teachers!’ They are quite flexible and incorporate much humor, for this is an asset to teaching. They are also quite experiential, understanding the value of experience with teaching. You learn through experience; therefore they are quite directing of experiences, and hold much desire to be experiencing.

... [You] will find a great concentration of Sumafi as teachers within the elements of arts, all arts; art being that which they view to be quite important, placing a very high value upon aesthetic beauty. We have begun our sessions originally by speaking to you of living artfully and incorporating beauty; this being aligned with your intent, as you are Sumafi. I continue to incorporate these elements throughout our meetings, and when you are moving away and being forgetful of the beauty and the artfulness of yourselves and your creations, I am immediate to be reminding you.

and Sumari:

Sumari (Speakers)

ELIAS: In continuing, we move to my color of blue. The essence family that I choose to represent is Sumari. The Sumari are playful. They are creative. They are spiritual. They are your artists. They are not teachers of art; they are doers. The Sumari are doers of everything! They incorporate action. They materialize what the Sumafi and the Gramada initiate. This essence family incorporates great creativity.

I have spoken to you of the initiators, these being the driving forces behind the actualizers. Therefore, the initiators within the arts would be the manifest individuals who promote the individual artists. These of the Sumari are the artists. They do incorporate the spotlight. They enjoy being within the forefront of all action. They are not introverted or shy individuals! They are quite extroverted. They also are quite independent. They do not align themselves with groups. They do not align themselves with societies or governments or religions. They are your rebellious group. They are the individuals that butt against everything! They are your salmon swimming upstream! They do not conform. You will find, in movements of cultures, individuals who are refusing to conform to the norm. These individuals belong to the Sumari.

Within your culture, within this country of yours, you have been exposed to a movement of the Sumari before you physically, within your time of great change, within this century; your young individuals, your students who revolted, who refused to conform; your ‘flower children.’ These were Sumari. They are great expressers of love and freedom. They choose not to align themselves within groups, for they feel that this is constricting of their individuality and creativity. They are tremendous expressers of individuality. They are your triumphers for the individual. They are focused upon the development, within all creativity, of each individual. They stress spirituality, but only within the individual, not within a religious-focus.

They are connectors. They connect essence to focus. They are also temporary. They are your physical ‘pop-ins’ of cultures. They do not establish cultures to be lasting. They ‘pop-in’ to established cultures, they encourage individual thought and creativity and spirituality, and they ‘pop-out!’ They initiate thought. They initiate remembering of connections. You will not find Sumari in long-lasting cultural situations. They will appear, temporarily, to be ‘stirring your pot,’ so to speak; and then they will, as suddenly as it may seem that they appeared, they will disappear.

The Sumafi is greatly involved with Sumari, for Sumafi incorporates before and after. When your Sumaris appear, they are taught by Sumafi. When they disappear, their ideas are continued and held steadfast by Sumafi. Within your present time, the Sumari have initiated, they have manifest, they have ‘stirred your pot’ temporarily, they have altered your focus. Now, the Sumafi incorporates the carrying on of this in teaching; therefore you, now."


that is my impression of justins fsmily intents according to elias data here:
http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/essence_families.html#Sumafi2

Rob, to be honest, i know beyond a doubt that Elias does not exist. It is too easy for someone who knows perfectly Seth's material to do such things.I could do it myself if my english was perfect because i have a deep knowledge in what Marylias says.
And come on, a desicarnate entity would have probably better things to do than spending 5 or six hours per day talking to people so that mary Ennis fills her pockets each day...The thousand dollars that M.E gets each day, it is for her,not for Elias. I do not blame her for getting a lot of money, i am blaming her for faking everything. I have studied her a lot , her and her Elias stuff and i can assure you that Elias does not exist. I had to deal in the past with such people and nobody more than me can tell who is fake or not, unfortunately.
 How ever,i am not saying that Seth did not exist,on the contrary.I still have to study it but maybe in one year i will tell you what i think  lol
 The funniest thing is how Maryelias avoids questions in her sessions lol   NEVER SHE GIVES AN ANSWER THAT A NORMAL HUMAN BEING COULD NOT GIVE....   Consider what i am saying Rob. THink about M.E motivations before you decide to have a session with her. And "Elias" is full of s***, he can not speak french at all    I spoke to him during my session and did not get a word  

Sympathy for the Devil     (M.Jagger/K.Richards)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
(woo woo, woo woo)

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me
(who who, who who)

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
(woo woo, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
(who who, who who)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
(woo woo, who who)

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
(who who, who who)

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
(woo woo)
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
(woo woo, woo woo)

Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
(woo woo)

Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time, you're to blame

Oh, who
woo, woo
Woo, who
Woo, woo
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah

What's my name
Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Woo woo
Woo woo

Quote:

Hi Justin,

Do you mind giving an example? (of you holding her in the Light of her True Self) and can you let the rest go? I'm not trying to cause trouble myself, just wondering how one does this while seeming to be in conflict with another. (We all have conflicts, I know, so this would be helpful for me to see how this works for others.)

Do you think that she could have honestly confused the two (or more) of you? Sometimes that happens. Even my own mother sometimes thinks I am my sister on the phone, and the same with me mistaking my two sons, even though we/they are "totally" different. (but, since we ARE we all "ONE" perhaps these slips are just us checking in on the big picture.) I get confused myself, on boards, when people use different alias and pictures.

The opposite happens sometimes, people get overlooked. I once spent an entire weekend with my in-laws at a cottage, and later in the week we talked by phone. My father-in-law said it was great seeing the rest of the family but too bad I couldn't make it. I had talked with him, ate meals with him, helped him put together the barbecue, hugged him hello and good-bye while there. Go figure. People goof up.

There is a lot of tension, or Energy, on this board, and sometimes chest-thumping. The question seems to be, is there room for this challenge-and-debate approach, and the keeping-the-peace-approach? The board has become more diverse and complex, as it has grown in size. And it seems to be the case, throughout Earth history, that peaceful cultures are dominated by and often destroyed by more assertive ones. Maybe we can learn from the past and do it differently on this board? I am open to ideas about this myself, as I suspect this struggle is a microcosm of the world as it is going through its changes.

I picture two groups, one who likes to garden as a hobby, and is busy tilling the soil and nurturing seedlings. Along comes a group who swordfight for fun, they move about with great gusto and finese. Can these two groups exist together without hurting each other, and even gain in the process?

Love and peace,
Carolyn

Rob and Justin,

Yeah, there are different energies, different approaches and neither is "right" or "wrong" and the difficulty is for each to understand the other approach. Yet they are not entirely separate. I was thinking about the Yin/Yang symbol yesterday, how the two balance but do not blend, yet each carries the other at it's heart.

Love,
Carolyn