I would just like to ask for what reason Juditha has been banned by Bruce, as she has never done anything wrong before, and has always been a caring and pleasant individual. Juditha and her sister are both greatly upset by this and I just wish to know what she has supposedly done wrong. I would also urge Bruce to forgive her , whatever she did, as we all make mistakes. What is the point of not forgiving someone over one little thing? (i say this not knowing the full details, so i may be wrong referring to it as that, but the point stands) What will anyone gain from this?

People actually send Bruce messages complaining about posts??!!

augoeideian wrote on Jul 31^st, 2006 at 10:41am:

Augoeideian,

It is called the Peer Moderator system and you can learn more about it by clicking the link at the bottom of any forum page.  This system is used to give members of these forums a voice in maintaining them as a safe, pleasant places to share experiences and questions.  Peer Moderators play a vital role toward that goal and their input is greatly appreciated by the Staff.

Bruce

Augo,

There is no democracy on a conversation board, nor should there be, because we are all here due to Bruce's kindness in hosting the site - that much is clear.  Furthermore, moderator input and banning are occasionally necessary, but I think you and I agree with the manner in which it is done.

To my mind, it seems more friendly and "out in the open," if a defamatory comment arises for a moderator to pop in to the thread and point out the transgression.  The person would then be given the opportunity to remove their negative comment, have it stricken, and behave.  If they chose not to do so, it would be done for them, and they could be banned for a time.  Everyone would see the moderator's input as it came, and that open dialogue would leave little for anyone to say. 

I do think Bruce has been quite open about explaining what happened today.  I hope my comments are heard in an objective, and constructive way - as that is how they are meant. 

I also agree that this is his forum, and that all of us are guests here.  As such, courtesy is a paramount attribute to anyone posting.


Matthew

i agree with everything you say Matthew (except the democracy part) but yes, in respect for Bruce who kindly hosts this site, rules are important and courtesy is paramount.

As we agree the manner in which it is done - to me it just seems counter-productive on a 'spiritual' board to ban someone who has been here for awhile and shared love with us.  The message given to someone ban is you are rejected - i think it is a sad day and do not see any love in it whatsoever.

May i ask who the peer moderators are in this forum?

Yo Indiglo i care - i send Juditha love right now.  We are adults whoever's board it is, if they are strong enough and have guts,  they can stand up for themselves.

That would be all good and well, but she wasn't 'standing up' for herself.  She was simply complaining, in an immature way. 

She deserved what she got.

Oh for goodness sake Indiglo this isn't a cheap internet chat board for teenagers where people's feelings mean nothing.  People here talk about things that are important to them - often sensitive subjects.

As the peer moderators will explain to us ..

Indiglo,

These posts are nasty in their tone.  No one is "B**ing" about the forum owner, Bruce.  And, unless I miss my guess, the moderators will not like that kind of talk directed at Augo or myself either. 

The whole purpose of this thread is to engage in discussion about the process of moderating, and what can be done to make things better using Juditha's experience as an example.  Juditha may have had no idea that she broke the forum policy, and with quick reflection the post could have been deleted.  That is why I suggested that she voluntarily remove it, and then be allowed to participate in a discussion.  No one cares about 14 days that you keep harping on - truly.  So your repetition of this has no meaning.  Juditha was a much loved poster who cared for others and they for her.  The hurt and trouble caused for her, her sister, and their friends is, apparently more than are able to acknowledge.  Ok.  You mentioned that earlier now.  Juditha and Deanna were so offended that they may never post again.  You may not care about that, but we do.  Bruce, I do not think that this action and subsequent consequences were what anyone wanted.

Indiglo, this thread, in the Off Topic forum is for those who would like to talk about it.  Please respect that - your point was made several posts ago.

Matthew

Hello Friends,

       A peer moderator is any one of us who performs that function ( all of us here are the 'peers')

      I performed that function and this is what I said: " Just want to alert y'all to what feels like an inappropriate thread and couple of posts"

      That was it. I didn't feel like engaging the specific thread directly because of my deep connection to Linn's site. I don't actually take sides but I do act according to my own conscience and inner promptings.

     I never recieve satisfaction or joy from another's discomfort or pain. Boundries do have to be set sometimes. Yesterday somebody was wacking me on the top of the head with a magazine. It was in a spirit of play to them. I told them it felt invasive and not to do it. They were very hurt and upset that I told them this, that I set a boundry. But I said "Look at me, I feel no anger towards you. The top of my head is sensitive, that's all. I needed to tell you to stop."

I don't think anyone who used the peer-moderator function feels satisfaction or pleasure at the outcome.

My respect and love to you all, Tim F.

It is about the days given.  If it was, 2 months, half a year, perma ban, I could see how people could be upset.  Instead of saying, 'Could you clean that up for me dear?', Bruce simply probationed her. For a very short amount of time.  She's learning her lesson.  If she would have read the rules when signing up she wouldn't have had this problem.

And if she refuses to post here after this is over, then it's her problem, she's welcomed back.

Augo, everyone who is registered is a Peer Moderator. Go to the bottom of this page and read it for yourself.

Thanks Marilyn i have but i do not see any peer moderator names listed? Oh sorry re-read your post Marilyn - i see we all peer moderators thats fair enough.  Tim you explained this as well.

It's strange how people who report posts cannot handle a situation by themselves and feel they have to rely on higher powers to intervene. Sad really .. the lack of confidence they have in themselves.


Further in defence of Juditha; her psychic abilities should not be under estimated. i found Juditha to be extremely sensitive to all the current discussed topics - it is Juditha who raises them at the exact moment when it is required.  A subtle thing that maybe others have missed but most definately there and her ability to offer psychic readings with a degree of accuracy has been proven. Antwnhs message mentions this well.

People may think that Juditha, in her simplicity is not talented, i say right now Juditha most probably has more psychic abilities than all of us put together  -  She expands herself with Deena as an outlet. Her mannerism is of gentle humbliness and i am sure she only gives us a piece of her talent. She should be an example to all of us in this humbliness. She is tapping into a higher realm and should be respected and supported for this.

My gut feeling about Juditha - and i miss her.

Augoeideian
Quote:


Click on the Peer Moderator information in blue and it will take you to a page that Bruce wrote ALL about Peer Moderator and why it's needed.

Love ya, Mairlyn

doc said: The person would be advised what is against the rules, and asked to remove it and cease any similar comments.  In all likelihood (as in Juditha's example), that would do it.  Any who read this brief conversation would know what transpired. 
____

sounds like a good plan Doc but due to the popularity of this board expediancy, and the fact a finger was being pointed at a member, who already went through this once from this board with another person, that is why expediancy was necessary among other reasons unseen. this person who would be appointed would be like a policy enforcer, or a cop if you will. they would have to be on this board at least once a day for your plan to work efficiently. I see you are a great person who is able to moderate and level things out in a kind manner but I don't think its reasonable to expect that the core group here can be on top of everything going on here at all times and its not right to put it all on Bruce just because he made this place. and its not right to start attacking the peer moderators whoever they may be for asking Bruce to look at a post and make a decision, then when he makes a decision to come back and say, well, heres how you should have done it. I think we're blowing this out of proportion to what it really is. I don't believe in victims. their higher selves planned a slam dunk for them. its Juditha's challenge to forgive now. it takes a really big person to forgive others their trespasses but she will grow tremendously and hugely if she does forgive and I think she has it in her and all this was perfect to happen the way it did.
some of us think globally, some of us think personally. Juditha is learning to think globally..she set this up. nobody did her a dirty deed but what she didn't agree to on higher levels. if she had not named another person's name in her post, she'd not have been laid off work for awhile and we'd still be over there trying to help her get over it...as it turned out some miracle may happen during the time out and I think instead of yakking about whats wrong with this picture..lets all get together in our minds and send light to all parties, light is energy, and it will bring a lot more clarity to the situation than I believe any politics will.
see each person involved completely experiencing a clearing and a lightened up heart and if we all did this as a group we would have our healling quickly.

Thanks Mair,

I agree with putting energy to good use.  I feel this thread is doing that.  Nothing in this thread is specifically attached to Linn or Juditha's complaint.  That should be between the two of them, and was not appropriate subject matter for the forum.  I have put the energy I usually reserve for healing into this discussion because I think that there is a better way.  The plan I outlined is, perhaps the quickest and most painless way for any moderator to peer moderate.  It is also done out in the open.   I think those who are telling Augo, myself and others to "deal with it," may be missing the emotional impact and sense of unfairness caused by the whole thing.  There is no getting around that the way this was done polarized members on the forum.  There is a better way, now and in the future.  I have offered to help if volunteers are needed.  I would hope that all who know me here know that I have no ties to any person or website's agenda.

Alysia, I agree in sending light for healing.  I see no reason that acting in a loving manner may not involve embracing any and all parties, and letting them know they are valued members of the forum.  If you read my posts, you will plainly see that I never attack the moderator(s) in any way.  I merely voice the opinion of many who have emailed me and posted here, and hope - that our voice is heard. 

It would be a mistake to think that those of us who have voiced support for Juditha condone her language regarding Linn.  I for one do not.  I merely wish to make peace and let Bruce and the moderators know that without direct intervention, open in the thread, there has been needless emotional pain inflicted in this case. 


Juditha was not a repeat offender, like others here (Don) who was given several public warnings.  She may have had no clue as to what was done, and it would have been so much easier to intercede directly in the thread and have things removed.

Juditha joined a forum unrelated to this one, was banned within 1 day for reasons which are still unclear to her (without a negative post there), and unfortunately brought her issues to Bruce's forum.  She did this for the support she has gotten in the past. 

Somewhere within the comments about "just let it be," there is something lost.  A member who was hurt and seeking advice - perhaps using poor language came to us.  And the result, Juditha's further hurt, does not rub many of us the right way.

Love,

Matthew

Acutally, Indiglo, I was not responding to you personally.  If you read the thread, you can see others said the same thing in a slightly different way.  I appreciate your restraint.  Believe me, I am upfront and always address people I am talking to.


M

quote author=laffingrain: nobody has gotten banned. its just time out to take a breather; get a different perspective.  no, I wasn't one of the moderators who requested the topic be looked at and moved to off topic but it was not the kind of topic you would want on the main thread for all the world to view as that would give the whole place a certain image of immaturity.

or if not the world, 2600 possible registered members.  

That is not a very nice thing to say - so it's about image i see - well as long as the image is looking good then that's fine isn't it.  Who is Linn anyway?  She doesn't participate in this forum so why should a member who does be kicked for someone who doesn't. Nothing against Linn, who i don't know.  This whole thing sinks like a rotten fish.

Ps:  Indiglo calm down sweety pie, we know you mean well.
Ryan lol a series of unfortunate events.

quote: That is not a very nice thing to say - so it's about image i see - well as long as the image is looking good then that's fine isn't it.  Who is Linn anyway?  She doesn't participate in this forum so why should a member who does be kicked for someone who doesn't. Nothing against Linn, who i don't know.
_____
you are interpreting this your way: let me rephrase; the forums purpose is not about promoting an image..its about telling others we continue after death so there is no need to fear transition. it is also about how to find your own knowing of this by reading other's sharings. there are other forums all over the net for support groups. all who come here are led here by spirit. all of us get off topic in one way or another. I think to be on topic is to be expressing helpfulness and sharing to others on their journey without the necessity of putting any other person down as "less than". this includes the phrase "liar" .  its like we all get thrust back to kindergarten and it brings the group consciousness down to be concentrating on someone's emotional problem of which we do not have enough facts to cast a judgment either way and we shouldn't take sides regardless precisely because we don't have all the facts and its none of our business what went between these two people. the way I see this board is that we are on the web, we attract others to learn of the afterlife and have hope and make this old world a better place to live in..the only way to do that is keep centered to the purpose of the board as set by the administration.

sometimes a person out of millions gets picked by spirit to get dumped on. take Jesus for instance. or take Juditha, or Linn. all eyes and attention rivets on this single entity for some great revelation to occur within the mass mind. we have a way of projecting guilt out there...let somebody else take the rap. its human nature. its for us to stop doing this and concentrate on flushing our own toilet.

I want you guys to stop suffering for Judith. she actually is being tested and she has asked for the testing. she will become stronger, she will lead as a little child leads in the kingdom. she loses some ego now. losing ego is good! because the spirit replaces what is lost. those who need her message will listen to her. you don't think she goes through life without guides do you? we all have guides. Juditha is in training. I'm positive of this. Keep sending her love, that is what propels her on her journey.

Thank you, Bruce.  Your point about each of us notifying the person who crossed the line is well taken, and I plan to do that whenever I'm made aware of a particular situation.  This is an excellent forum, you are a caring and compassionate host - and you practice what you preach.  For myself, should it ever be needed I would gladly offer my services to moderate in any way needed to adhere to the spirit of the forum. 


With deepest respect and gratitude,


Matthew

Thank you Bruce for your sincere message and thank you for lifting the ban on Juditha; it means so much and the spirit that you have done this in is commendable and highly respected.

Moderation is important because the forum is open to 'all sorts' - but nothing that the sincere members who post regularly cannot respond to in the correct manner which is open debate and if it is a 'shark' it really is a cry for help, at the end of the day, and through constructive debate with the regular members the shark will feel more like a goldfish (hopefully!)

I tend to be rather out spoken at times, especially when i feel certain injustices are at play.   

Bruce thank you for this wonderful site and Rosalie thank you.

With deepest respects to you and to the administrators of the site.  May it grow even more in love with the caring members that are part of it.

Caryn

Heartfelt thanks dear Bruce.

Love, Mairlyn

thanks Vicky..so close it almost bit me   thanks Bruce for reminding us all how valuable each one of us is and I already realized a long time ago thats whatever goes on here, that theres no other board quite the same as this one.
I hope I can be a part of all this for a very long time. sometimes I feel like I am just passing through but this has been my home and I needed a home. and some of us do pass through. I sometimes miss the ones who take vacations or leave permanently.

when I die this place will remain in my memory as the place that was instrumental in allowing me to blossom forth with my best. I fought that idea a long time. I finally realized I should be proud I somehow found this place.
I think I speak for many who like to swim here, and thats why I keep coming back because what makes them happy makes me happy too.

what you wrote Bruce, as usual blows me away. thanks again, love, alysia

I had a dream last night we were discussing we had the same ideals for the board, just different ways of approaching it. it was interesting because in the dream we were new neighbors with some acreage between us..where we let our wild horses roam free..powerful horses. u expressed some fear that I was moving in and the land might not be as it used to be. I knew you had your own land and I had mine. you were apologetic. this is strange but its getting normal to pick up what others are feeling out there. this must be our field of dreams here. I see no reason why we can't make room for everybody. we both liked the wide open spaces. I decided to look at u as a person of passion.  can't begin to tell you how many times I've wished I hadn't said things that I said and then another's interpretation turned it around and I had to learn not to take anything personally. I always expect people to forgive me especially if I forgive them first. sometimes they do and sometimes not. takes a big person to apologize is all I know! you mustn't let it bother you though. u did get through to me. hugs, alysia

oh thats what you were doing..wow...we just did an impromtu PE. I hope folks interested in how to do it will read our posts. PE lets us know how we can connect in those areas and you and I just offered confirmation to each other that it works. it goes to show that when theres a problem, we can resolve it through PE.
I've been noticing that I've done this, to resolve problems or make contact with others out there at different points in my life, like the two worlds start to become one world, a merge of sub conscious and conscious C1. its still exciting to me regardless of the conditions we came together under!
I appreciate your faith or belief in me Caryn and I hereby restore my faith in you dear light! a real hug coming your way!   hey everyone reading this, Caryn's emotion helped us make contact and in the dream I know this because she popped into my house out there while I was busy with something else, which doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about her (I presume you are feminine gender?)  because I did think about her post and provided an opening for her that way..by the thoughts. I didn't expect a visit though but I remembered thinking that we would meet some night; as I think we do meet in the group regularly and don't remember mostly. so that was the opening to make the connection possible.  hope this helps to explain PE better for all interested in those hunting grounds.

interesting post Caryn..my buttons are going boing! boing!
you said: We did?!  So that's what i was doing while snoring my head off - riding wild ____

I have a thesis going nobody else does..lol...ok, I think our thoughts reach another person if they are emotional thoughts, empowered with curiosity or other emotions, like love, even anger. any emotion. then this thought ball, it has a persons energy signature on it, so a receptive person can discern who's thought ball has taken a symbolic form within a dream. for instance, I have your signature better now as I just read your response to Cathy to her dream. I see that you keep your area clean, so you are a cleaner upper, a protector spirit. (I am too, but I call myself a recycler) these are the people who become either policeman or lawyer types, or maintain to watch over others in some way a service person to the health of the greater community. this is how I saw you also in my dream, that you were maintaining the field of dreams here as your intention on the spiritual level, of which i did not know this until the dream had sunk in better. the horses can symbolize our emotions we ride, the horse is also a symbol of power or strength, and highly trainable and willing to please is the gentle horse. ( I want to own one someday and train it).
_____

Caryn:
Although maybe it happened during the day while i was sending you love and hanging the washing on the line - either way riding the horses is welcome anytime and visting you dear Alysia!
_____
when we do PE, we've decided just so long as we do them on the same day it still works...the thought balls seem to have a life span of their own, well, I picture thought balls as floating to the person you're sending to, knocking on their door, and if the door is not answered then they might fade away and disintegrate. just a picture I have.
______
i agree, this is a very good way to communicate 'things' albiet one of the members is sub-conscious of the event.
____

I know. its frustrating. makes me look a little nutty. I'll say to someone I SAW YOU! I KNOW u were there! oh, really? they would say. hmm. possibly, but I don't remember. then I read some books of a gal who  was helping her friend remember their obes and PE's because she had this knowing and he did not but was starting to remember small things. our symbols are personal, and I think the most important thing in PE is to recall what you felt. the emotions seem to carry more weight than the symbology; at least for myself. then try working logical process in there and you get the idea of right/brain working with left brain to synchronize.
_____

And how wonderful that our spirits communicate to each other through symbols. Then the conscious meeting of two must be extremely powerful.
____
its so powerful I had to write it down. but usually the other person interprets it from their own perspective if they remember the PE. you have to find the commonality of both of the memories/interpretations without stretching it to Kalamazoo.
_____

  Although maybe our spirits prefer the symbols because although i know you to be Alysia here i might not recognise the fullness of you there and visa versa.
______
right. I don't think its so much of a preference for our spirits to work this way through symbology and that abstract area, so much as it appears all we have to work with right now, as it takes a specially talented person to bring back language, sentence structure and logical processes. just my pov, from where I am, because I have brought words back, but not the total conversation. maybe its because a picture is worth a thousand words?  you're right I didn't see the total person that you are out there; I just caught some expressions of intention you had. and it was not my fuller self which replied to you. my horsey nature replied to you...lol...
_____

This happened to me with Juditha although Juditha was not conscious of it either but to me it was Juditha's presence that was very strong in my dream (re my america post) and here i saw a AK message board that Juditha had written - another symbol.
_____
I wake up sometimes with AKC conversations in my head..go to the board and the same person I was talking to in my head had posted the same line of thought..then I knew it wasn't just me thinking of this subject matter...I must have plugged into the board...I must have a wire plugged into it...lol....I am a radio receiver..somebody stop me.
______
i reckon whenever anyone here has a dream about a fellow member we should communicate it - it is very interesting and the symbols may add so much more.
_____
true. I'd like that to happen. but I don't know if anyone feels safe enough to do that. when you're first developing, we tend to imagine that someone is going to rain on our parade, and it happens that we can absorb negativity before we learn to toss it off, like rain off a ducks back, so to speak. I was one of those who had to learn to not take things personally here..and it was very hard to do. I'm still learning not to soak up negativity.
______

it seems that concentrated effort does need to be mediated upon to do this
____
I'm stlll learning about PE and phasing and altered states etc and obeing versus dreaming, we've been discussing on another thread not to have preconceived expectations when learning to do this, so you are thinking the same as us.
_____

- through emotions is also interesting.
____

I see emotions as like horses to ride out there, and the logical processes being the trainer of the horses.
_____

Alysia would you say this is different from an obe pe?
_______
what we did? I'm still learning what an obe is held up next to a dream visual. they seem to be related, or degrees of one another. you can have a profound dream which turns out to be an obe, then you can jump from a dream into an obe and become lucid within the obe. you can phase and just be out there in your mind picking up subtle signals, but aware you're still in your body at home. we just don't have all the answers yet.
_____

In a dream it may be our oversouls talking to one another and in conscious out of body it would be more our earthly spirits in direct contact?
____
these oversouls and earthly selves would be like a rubber band; its still you at each stretched end. what would tend to produce a successful PE I believe is a shared intention, or like a wish to resolve a conflict sometimes so that the shared intention can be revealed. in a way, we do stretch our minds into these areas, like the rubber band.
____

Ps:  Alysia i remember once that you said you had visited the 'halls' of our AK board here
____

a few of us have done it. I saw this as a mansion, made of stone, ancient and solid. we even had a dungeon. huge. I needed some help. went looking for Bruce. found him constructing another room. a brand new room. later I came to the board and there were some new forum rooms! yaaaaahhhaaa!!!
_______

.. i believe i have been 'here' too.  A passage way with lots of doors
____

I saw that too...a lot of doors and dark passages..
______

- i was spinning madly
_____
oh, I was just whining....lol...I used the resthome too...
______

and there was a figure at the end of the passage - the figure ran towards me and i spun towards it and we clashed together in the middle - that was it then i woke up.  interesting hey.
____

yes! was this me?

_____

take care protector spirit!! hugs, alysia

Iching to reply now!

Time and travelling is interesting - This topic is enough to keep scientists busy for the rest of their lives.

Im thinking with conscious obe pe maybe time does matter.  for example if you and i, Alysia, agree to obe and meet in Hawai - i must make sure i can leave my body in a non-conspicuous place like my bed. i couldn't agree to obe while im at work for example because my body would feel exposed and look at bit daft just sitting empty.  Also working within the earths time zones - i am 8 hrs ahead of this board time therefore my bedtime is about 10pm say - if you are on this boards time zone then your time would be 2pm - would this be a good time for you to leave your body to make sure we make contact?

my thinking is conscious obe pe is real time - but i might be wrong and if i am phew its going to take alot to get my brain around the concept of non-linear time within linear time.

Then maybe, like you said, if you obe and knock on my door but my conscious spirit is not available to go out with you however, my oversoul is, then we have this scenario of you knowing of the event but i don't.

And in the dream state then it is both our oversouls meeting and this surely must be non-linear time even if one is awake and the other not.  This saying that i may be sitting at work but my oversoul might be travelling with you without me here knowing about it - so i wouldn't be in the dream state or maybe both of us wouldn't necessarily have to be in the dream state.

So the questions racing in my head are:

- Is conscious OBE in real time?
- Can our oversouls meet regardless of time?
- Can one person OBE and connect with another person's oversoul who is not in OBE? i think you have already done and answered that Alysia ..
_____

I'm still learning what an obe is held up next to a dream visual. they seem to be related, or degrees of one another. you can have a profound dream which turns out to be an obe, then you can jump from a dream into an obe and become lucid within the obe. you can phase and just be out there in your mind picking up subtle signals, but aware you're still in your body at home. we just don't have all the answers yet.
_____

these oversouls and earthly selves would be like a rubber band; its still you at each stretched end. what would tend to produce a successful PE I believe is a shared intention, or like a wish to resolve a conflict sometimes so that the shared intention can be revealed. in a way, we do stretch our minds into these areas, like the rubber band.
____

This makes sense in a non-sensical way!

You mentioned .. Kalamazoo .. is that a specific term or place?

i have had a few spinning lucid dreams .. for example the visit here; but then where would here be?
In me i suppose.  However it is also in you and we perceive more or less the same vision ..

The thing to differentiate conscious obe would be the conscious knowing that it is leaving the body - physically feeling your spirit leaving your body.  Then here the earth is exactly the same and there would be no abstract things its just we are in astral form in the physical.  correct?

Huge respect to Robert and Bruce for this work.

Interesting your trip to here, our dear home.  No, no it was not you Alysia in my lucid dream. the figure at the end of the hall was a pitch black form and very male in spirit.  i do believe this was my seperated husband who i fear the most.  The overall feeling was fear.  He has no knowing or understanding of the worlds i live in (dare i say this) so i must have placed him there.

Fear is a strange thing - there is scary scary fear or respect fear.  i have a scary fear for this figure based on cruelty but if there was not this fear i would not have ventured into exploring the spiritual worlds so then i do have respect for this fear as well.  Hard to explain because i do not enjoy the fear (some people do and actually enjoy the emotion of feeling upset and sorry for themselves sub-consciously) i dont enjoy this emotion at all but the sheer isolation of it drives me further into myself really.

ah but getting off the topic now - which is exciting and brilliant.

lol when you say you are like a radio receiver (good analogy) then you must have Aquarius placed somewhere prominent (getting a bit flustered over my choice of signs for you!)

Thanks for the conversation  

Yes, the energy of memories left behind is interesting.  The Michael books talk about a reversal or inversion of the earth where everything is turned inside out - there is a period of physical outwardness and a period of physical inwardness.  Interesting.

Thanks for your further insight of obe's etc. lots of food for thought.

Yes, indeed some sort of karma working out in my life for sure!

blast so i got your planets wrong   goes to show you i don't know you that well!  Sagittarius is a great sign - a fire sign;

The planetary fire which producers eventual revelation to the purified man who stands in light.  the symbolic Archer represents the soul, riding a white horse - representing control of the animal aspect of man and compelling it to go in the direction of the soul's aspiration and aim.  Quality of this sign is sense of direction, the power to see the vision and direct one's course to it.  Associated with intuition, the arrow 'the shaft of light' for it is the 'shaft of the arrow of inspiration which returns to the sender as the arrow of intuition.

Exoteric ruler:  Jupiter carrying the gift of expansion, the beneficient methods of evolution, unfoldment and the path of love-wisdom.
Esoteric ruler:  Earth which enables the one-pointed disciple to move on from point to point on the pathway of initiation and achievement.

Polar opposite: Gemini - duality leading to unification.

Sagittarius 'I see that goal.  I reach that goal and then I see another.'

*

I hear what you say about a box i suppose it depends upon perception and resonants .. lol saying im a cleaner upper protector is always kinda like a box lol all pieces of a puzzle really.

Im sun aquarius, aquarius ascendant, venus, mercury and mars aquarius, neptune scorpio, saturn pisces, jupiter gemini, uranus and pluto virgo, north node sagittarius, south node taurus and moon aries .. lol so im prominently Air which does blend well with Fire.

Coffee sounds great .. lets go now.  

Lol 

Hey Chumley where've you been .. hope you well!

um ... can't we have democracy anywhere anytime?! well at least strive for it .. lol

hello there Bets and B-man. Bets, it just happened! don't you love spontaneous pop outs of the astral body? I mean the PE. I think its because I think about PE all the time. so I look for the ways its done so I can get everyone to do it! well, I should go have some more whipped cream with my bathtub, I mean my coffee. after all, life is too short to not smell the roses. I'd better put that on my fridge so I don't forget. love ya! alysia

Wow Caryn, 
You are so right on! Alysia is very dear to me (tho I've never told her that), and she's definitely like an arrow, pointing out what's important!
Maybe it's hard for me to catch up with her, and you because of this twin thing---are we conjoined? 
bets