"If god cant be proven to exist, then his comandments, his laws, the miracle's he performs, his son, all becomes meaningless."

I think you need to add the words "to me" at the end of that statement to make it true.  Otherwise your argument is lost as background noise to those who will continue to assign meaning to good works they attribute to God.

Evening blink,

I confine my ideas of "god" because this thread is based on christianity and for them "god" is a omnipotent being.

I can understand the kind of universal spark which you would probley think of as "god". But thats a discussion for another time my friend.

God? still affects people today, i get christians coming to my door, yapping on about going to hell every other day. In my area, (i dont know wether this happens everywhere) but if your christian you get membership to a special club, and christians will give discounts to other christians, on jobs like plumming etc. Also if you do something which contradicts there version of the bible, you will get harrassed to death, and they will make your life a living hell. Which is the reason i dont like mobs.

I can immagine something greater then myself, and theres nothing more i would like then knowing a "god" existed which controlled my actions, but i cant because the proof for such a thing is based on evidence i find extremely lacking.

My logo, can give you a peice of evidence indicating that an inteligence created it, you can communicate with me, i can make another logo. Prove my existance.

You see a rock in the desert,

You say

blink" If that rock moves, i'll be happy"

Earthquake. The rock jumps up and down.

blink"Omg, that was cool, if the rock does that again, i'll be even happier".

Nothing happens.

Yet a full civilization, have become fully fledged rock worshippers.

Our education lets us understand that an earthquake occured, and therefore there "god" is nothing to us except a rock and a crust rumble.

Anyway you look at it, there lack of understanding is dangerous, you say that the rock sucks, they could attack you for it.

But at the end of the day logic + immagination = your theory being greater then theres.

The things we dont understand, are because our immagination and logic, hav'nt become good enough to understand an occurance.

The moon and sun used to be gods, few people believe it's true these days, why? education shows us, our mind was wanting it to be true, yet logic was'nt as present as it is now.

Just like christianity in well "educated" societys is on the decline, why? because people understand the logic behind occurances, there immagination has been tempered by wisdom allowing for the truth based on our existence to emerge.

Spitfire,
     you said,
"The moon and sun used to be gods"

Of course this is totally off topic, Spitfire, but the moon and the sun are still my gods.

I worship them, love them, and see myself and my relationships in them. This world is pure poetry and expression.

Even those who come to our doorsteps and tell us all about horrors of the hell that awaits us are really just a starry night sky on the canvas we are viewing. In one hundred years will it matter to any of us? 

Our canvas will be in a long hall and a being will walk down the dim corridor with a flashlight and view our lives spilling out of the moving canvas...our canvas will be somewhat unique and have a certain special quality...and then the being will walk along to the next canvas in the hallway that never ends...

Will the being come back to view our canvas again?

Will the being turn around with a question,

"Something....what is It....Something happened here, Something Important...let me look at this one once again...."

Perhaps we shall see.

love, blink

Nope, Mr. Spitfire,

I won't be coming back today.  Come visit me there sometime if you like. It's really fun.

love, blink

You know what blinks. I'm with you let warship the sun and the moon. You seem to be having fun. Let go Blinks.

Spit I'll do what in my earthly power to answe your questions.

1. why did no one bring camera's? video camera's?

Why would they bring a camera? It sound like they where there to pick her spirit up after nothing happened. If you though nothing was going to happened why would you bring a camera?

2. why would "god" heal this girl, and not the millions of others in need?

Why does a parent let one child touch a stove and tell the other it’s hot. Why does a tornado hit one person home and spare the one beside him. Why is one person given a experimental drug that could save there life. While the other is given Hospice to make there death comfortable. That life man sometime you get a royal flush. Some times you only get 2s. Did you ever think maybe this woman had a reason to be. So she was saved so she could complete her work. Hey I can stock selves all day. Only the boss get to choose when I go home.

3.why does a god need worship?

Parents like to be hugged and kissed by there children. They don’t need it. Yet it lets them know there loved. Maybe warship is are way of hugging god.

4.god has only existed for a few thousand years, we never worshipped any god for the rest of our exist, why should we now?

Really now so when did you live with the cave men. When did you learn to know what there thinking? The first god was Ra from what we know. That was the first time we had text we could understand. He might not have been G O D but there has been a force that people worshipped.

5. everything you understand about god, comes from 1 book, a few scrolls and thats it, "god" cant love all his children equally as it says in the bible, for he killed the eygption kids because they would'nt let the isralites go. either god does'nt love all his children, or the book was created purely by man, for man to keep control over the mass's.

The bible and other holy text I love this question.
Lets me start with this

for he killed the eygption kids

Let me return to the parent figure. It one that easy for me to explain my answer.
If you and me where brother and you where picking on me. father would tell you to stop it. (He was told to let them go.) Then if you kept it up. He might spank or ground you.

Well God a little bigger then the father he need a bigger paddle. This was is punishment. As far as the bible goes. It only word and paper. Heck I can tell some on this board something. If you’re the last person to get the message we both know it will not be the same message that I said. Then again I believe the bible been mistranslated to. How much of the bible was not messed up when it was being written. Maybe the God has tried over and over again to have us see the truth. Maybe we messed it up in the translation.

As far as proof it like a courtroom trial. For every bit of evident I give that some one did it. Evident can be given that they didn’t do it. Only the person knows if they did or didn’t do it. Like I have said before. I could bring a gold ball from thin air and show it to you. Does not mean you can’t say I had it hidden behind my back all along.

Now it’s my turn Spit.
I had a friend named Robert. He said is math teacher for the second grade was Miss knight. I never met Miss Knight. I never knew Miss Knight. Yet him knowing math was proof of Miss Knight being real. Yes he could lie about Miss knight and have learned math from Miss Day. Really what the point. You say control. Remember most Christians and Jew where killed for there believes. There was no control they gained nothing but death. Yet they still preached the word. Maybe Christianity is god new attempt to show he’s real. I have more to say but I don’t wish to be banned when I am so new.

(None of the above true. I just using it as an example.)

Spitfire, I'm off topic here, but the Western 'god' we were force-fed does not exist.
This beastie is a mere theological creation, dressed by imagination, vested with mythical abilities and adapted to impress the folk of earlier days.

You have arrived at this conclusion yourself.

Problems arise as folk evolve in thought and understanding - what held sway then, no longer persuades now, so the 'Word of God' must be changed in an attempt to recapture its former controlling potency.

This has to be done surreptitiously and not overtly.
So the 'New, Authorised' versions of  'gods word' regularly appear.

Try this for size: God - whatever the name - exists.

This divine power does not play games or take sides. It doesn't require to be worshipped. It seeks nothing other than that we learn to live our individual life in response to the 'highest' that is within us.
'It' is responsible for creating the Natural Laws which apply to and govern every aspect of Life in every circumstance, on every level. None are outside of Natural Law.

It seems that our task in our present state of being is to learn to recognise and to comply with, the best of the various options we are aware of - a wee bit like Pavlov's Dogs.

Altruistic choices bring us better fruits than selfish ones, etc. Reaping as we sow, or experiencing cause and effect.

It follows that no one and nothing, under any circumstance, can influence or change, bend or deflect, in any way, the inevitable consequence we have earned by our very own thoughts and/or actions.
It follows, also, that theologians are utterly powerless in their futile, ritualistic chanting or ceremonies, by candlelight or with incense, to change or prevent anything of importance.They may not wish their adherents to realise this, of course.

As the wonderful natural systems of evaporation and distillation provides us with a continuing supply of clean water, (demonstrating there was no Flood) and the seasons follow each other in orderly sequence, the Earth follows its cosmic journey - all automatically, so the natural laws also operate automatically. We move through this chapter of Life, taking with us only what we have earned and learned, into our next chapter.

  Hi there Spitfire,

  Maybe God is both the ultimately impersonal and just an energy awareness which runs through all things, and also a personal, caring, Loving Father/Mother which wishes to see us remember where we came from before the dream?

  Maybe the God of the Bible is a mix of these, plus being distorted through human belief systems, and occasionally being edited on purpose?

  But maybe there is "truth" in there if someone looks hard enough for it?

  Maybe it is more symbolic than most realize, and really kind of hidden knowledge?  Not hidden on purpose so much as hidden just because we don't have eyes to see with?

  Overall, i'm not a huge fan of the Bible, though i'm quite fond of (some might say obsessed with) Dr. J (lol not the guy from the 76ers).

   I've always been more attracted to Eastern teachings in general, cause they seem to make more "sense" and tend to be more about impersonal Laws which govern all manifested phenomena.

  But, and this a big Butt, if we are all parts of God, or "probes" as Bruce calls it, then as we become more like God through our Freewill choices, then couldn't be eventually become God personified, and so represent the personal Loving God aspect?

  Now, if another like Dr. J ever comes along who can walk on water, revivify the dead, all that kind of stuff, would you be more open to their teachings?

  Would you perhaps consider that they are more Consciously in-touch with their God selves?

  Just wait around, there maybe another one coming in your lifetime.   But its possible that you might have to be open to it, to get the full benefit? 

   We all just want to be happy, and whatever gets us there with no dependance on a outside "thing", seems to be something to reach for, doesn't it?

  Tell ya, i use to be one depressed dude, didn't much like life at all, and was very unhappy much of the time, and no matter how i tried to fill it up with "stuff" or with drugs or alcohol, it never fudamentally helped me be less unhappy.

  I decided to try an experiment, i considered the words of a pyschic (gasp) who seemed to have been pretty well verified in many areas, and i decided to put into practice some of these principles, ideas, and ideals...

  It wasn't easy by any means, changing my diet so much and exercising took a lot of discipline and non attachment to my appetites, and the "emotional" stuff was even harder at first...  I eventually got to the point where i generally wouldn't try to "get back" at those who seemed to want to hurt me...

  But more and more as i changed my attitudes and diet, took an active positive look at life, the more and more i started to become consistently happy.

  And the great thing was, when really bad shite happened to me, that happiness was much more stable and consistent....

  Who cares about psychism, the afterlife, f'ing retrievals, and all this bull crap?

  Thats not what life is about, its about trying to be happy....but maybe, just maybe there is a cosmic Law which is a bit Newtonian, but also applicable to vary "tiny" and subtle energy levels as well, which says, what you put forth, is what you experience?  Or Like attracts Like...

   None of those above things will make a person happy, though believing in the afterlife does tend to open people up in various ways, and it helps to not fear death of course (which seems to be one of humans main problems)...but if you are not living the principle of Like attracts Like in mind, but want to be happy, then it seems like you might not get anywhere in that goal?

  Hey, i fall off the PUL wagon often, but i have to tell you from personal experience, this stuff is one powerful life changing substance.  And i basically wake up everyday looking forward to my day, even though materially i don't have very much at all, and can barely make ends meet.

    Just try out the experiment yourself for awhile....really really try, get your body healthy, meditate consistently, and try to look past the negative traits of others more.

Come on, you got nothing to lose!   I'm not asking for money here, and i'm not trying to convert you (well lol if to be completely honest..i guess i am ), but i just think that if it worked for me, it might work for you?

   Peace