Roger, I had a chance to listen to this, thank you for sharing.

At one point Peter Panagore basically said that during his experience he understood that God is aware of all of us and loves all of us.

Contrast that to ACIM which states that God isn't even aware of this world. I think I'll go by what Peter said, rather than what that being Helen Schucman spoke to said.

How could a course that is supposedly a course in miracles, deny that God has anything to do with this world? What intent could such a course have?

Roger:

It is really strange but yet understandable why so many people fall for a course in miracles. Here are some reasons that apply to varying degrees.

1. Some people haven't come to understand that there are misleading beings that seek to mislead people. Such beings don't want this world to spiritually progress. Because some people don't understand that this is so, they assume that anything that claims to be genuine source of information, is in fact such a source. If a source is fairly popular and packaged in a fancy way, people are more likely to assume, without really considering the matter, that a source is genuine.

2. Related to the above, some people don't understand to a sufficient extent that a source doesn't need to be genuine in order to come up with words that sound spiritual. Some misleading beings, even though they are not wise (considering the path they have chosen), are quite intelligent and clever. I have experienced the presence of some of these beings. In one case a group of these beings wanted to establish regular contact with me. I could sense in a very clear way that they were quite intelligent, lacked empathy, and were up to no good. I don't remember what precisely I told them,  something like, "I'm committed to God, Christ, love, ultimate goodness and the welfare of all, and that's all there is to it," and they went away.

3. Some people don't want to have to deal with spiritual growth in a gradual way, so they seek the all or nothing solution ACIM offers. Either the so-called atonement happens and the Universe disappears, or no growth happens. Some Eastern teachings are similar, they claim that either you drop your ego and become enlightened, or you don’t grow at all. I found that it is definitely possible to grow in a gradual way, and well worthwhile to do so. The key factor is that growing spiritually isn’t a matter of becoming a nobody, it is a matter of growing as a Soul that definitely exists.

4. Some people are troubled by the difficulties that exist in this world, and rather than put in the effort to make them better, they would rather believe that the world doesn’t exist,  is just an illusion, so there is no need to do anything. This is what the course’s 365 day course attempts to do. It tries to get people to program their minds, so they no longer concern themselves with the suffering that takes place in this world. I’m quite familiar with this attitude because I had it when I was involved with guru-based nondual teachings in the 1980s. Eventually, thank God, I found out that many gurus aren’t what they claim. Some are worse than others—even the gurus that seem more pure are misleading. For example, for people who are into nondual teachings, Ramana Maharshi was like the holy grail. Yet he said things that are quite misleading and similar to ACIM. He said people didn’t need to be concerned about the suffering that takes place in this world, because the world doesn’t exist, nothing was ever created, only the Self as pure awareness exists (Ajata Vada doctrine). He said that the “I-thought” is the cause of manifested existence. He said that we are not our bodies and minds, just pure awareness. People who decide to conclude that Ramana was an infallible enlightened master, place their minds in a psychological trap that makes it difficult to see how things actually are, because they won’t question what Ramana (or other supposed enlightened gurus) say. If people would move beyond what ACIM and nondual gurus say, they would find that the Universe they find themselves in was intentionally created so Souls could use it as a way to experience and grow. You can’t judge how much wonder is available, by the negativity that exists in this World.

5. Some people, out of the interest of being positive rather than negative, make the mistake of concluding that it isn’t okay to question things in a critical way. I don’t believe it is positive to keep silent when a source “LIES” and claims to be Jesus, and purposely tries to mislead people.

6. Some people experience some seemingly positive results when reading ACIM, and therefore, assume that is okay. When I was involved with guru-based nondual teachings I experienced some positive results, but eventually I found that such growth happened to a limited extent, and that to some degree my mind had become confused and my spiritual growth was limited accordingly. For example, nondual teachers, including people such as Eckhart Tolle (a supposedly enlightened teacher who was influenced and therefore misled and limited by ACIM), contend that there is no such thing as an individual, individuality is just an illusion. ACIM goes way overboard with the way it speaks of ego.

This is what I have found out. My individuality, existence as a Soul, is a gift that God has graciously provided me with. I have found that if I meditate in a way where I acknowledge the existence of my Soul, my individuality, I make deeper contact with the gift God has provided, and this helps me become aware of God’s love, peace and presence. When people try to deny their individuality, and use a portion of the mind aspect of “their” individuality to do so, they sometimes obtain a sense of their presence in a more formless way, and mistake this for the ultimate and total truth. This is a mistake, because the only way a person can get a good understanding of who they are and where they come from, is by allowing themselves to be aware of all aspects of themselves, even if some of these aspects need some fixing. Pure awareness, by itself, can’t do anything but be aware. Thank goodness, the awareness, mind and creative aspects of being can’t be separated from a person’s awareness aspect of being, no matter how much a person fools himself about this matter, or what some supposed enlightened person says.

I have read of a few people that dissociated from their minds because of some trauma they experienced. This enabled them to experience bliss and a feeling of expansiveness. They eventually found that they had to deal with their trauma, in order to become integrated people that embrace all aspects of their being, rather than continue to be people that tried to escape a part of themselves, as perhaps Eckhart Tolle did when he sought relief from the depression and anxiety he was feeling (as described in “The Power of Now”). Some of the things he says are okay, some aren’t. It seems that after what he refers to as his enlightenment experience, he relied on ACIM and Eastern teachings to help him make sense of what he experienced. Therefore, it is no surprise that he speaks of ego and mind in an out of balance and “possibly” misleading manner. I said “possibly” because I figure that some people who read his books and listen to him don’t make the mistake of using a portion of their mind aspect of being to disassociate from their minds and sense of individuality. I have seen in various places within the internet that some people do take his words too literally, and try to disassociate from their sense of self and minds.

7. ACIM has many words, is repetitive, and is written in an odd way that can have a mind numbing effect. If a book has a lot of words, has a mind numbing effect, and a person is anxious to obtain the information they believe the book contains, such person is likely to read such book too quickly and as a result not thoroughly consider what it says.  This is what happened for me when I gave ACIM a chance and made the mistake of allowing it to brainwash me for a while. Regarding the mind numbing effect, I found out that it caused me to become sleepy and nod out. The only other thing that has had this effect, is another channeled source that speaks of ego in the same way as ACIM. Two other people at this forum stated that they experienced this nod out effect while reading ACIM. I saw a discussion at another forum, and three people at that forum experienced the same thing. On another site, a couple of people said that they sensed something malevolent when they read ACIM. There were occasions when I would ACIM, and I would see demonic images mixed in with the words, without seeing anything but the letters. This hasn’t happened with another book, so don’t call me crazy.

Albert

I believe it is possible that when we read a book that has a misleading and insidious source, we make some degree of an energetic connection to that source. To some degree, at a level that isn't fully conscious, some people say, "here I am, mislead me," as they read a book that has a misleading intent.

The good news is, if we are willing to discriminate, we can quite often tell if there is something off about a source, within the first few pages of reading a book or listening to a talk.

rondele wrote on Nov 13^th, 2019 at 10:24am:

Maisie:

It is good to read that at least one person listened to her intuition and wasn't fooled by ACIM. I was fooled by it for a while. Eventually I found that it had a brainwashing effect on me.

As I said elsewhere, I have found that guidance can be obtained through dreams. In the 1980s I was involved with a guru-based cult. Eventually I found that the guru of this group wasn't as wise and spiritually evolved as he claimed. Years later, while I was involved with ACIM, I had a dream where I was leaving the Satsang hall of the guru I used to see. While standing on a stairwell a man shook me vigorously and asked me, "Why did you do it, why did you do it, why did you allow yourself to become brainwashed again?" In the first instant he meant the guru-based group I belonged to. In the second instant he meant ACIM.

Afterwards, several times during meditation, I prayed to God and Christ and asked if ACIM comes from Christ, and in each case I was told in a visual symbolic way, "no." I know of other people who have been told the same.

ACIM claims that the manifested universe didn't come from God and serves no purpose what so ever. Supposedly our collective egos (ACIM's version of the Son of God) created the universe as an "attack" against God. ("attack" is a key word that ACIM uses to brainwash people, and ironically, some of the course's followers will attack you if you say anything against ACIM.)

According to ACIM a person doesn't need to be concerned about the consequences of their actions, because nothing is real, and therefore nothing exists in a substantial enough way where it truly needs to be forgiven. It claims that forgiveness is a matter of seeing that nothing ever took place that can be forgiven.

The fact of the matter is that if we want to become spiritually whole, we will eventually need to look at our lives in a very honest way, and acknowledge how we effected others. (consider the life review of near death experiencers) Forgiveness between two people can actually take place, only if it is acknowledged that there is actually something to forgive. When forgiveness takes place in such a way, true spiritual growth can take place. We incarnate in places like this world so we can learn and evolve spiritually, not so we can deny the reality of what we take part in.

Even this world is nothing but an elaborate elongated dream, the wisdom and growth we obtain by being here is "very real." God has set things up so we can learn to become more like him in our own ways.

Going by some of the things you have written, it sounds as if you have had a more challenging life than me. I must say that overall my life has been quite blessed. The challenges I have had have helped me grow spiritually. I imagine that the challenges you have gone through have helped you grow spiritually. You have developed spiritual muscle that will benefit you for all of eternity. Your life here in this world is much more than a meaningless illusion. You are making a wonderful contribution to the Oneness we are all a part of. Thank you for your sacrifices.

P.S. I don't know to what extent people use ACIM to justify their bad behavior. I figure there are many course followers that are nice and honest people. As I mentioned above, ACIM says that forgiveness is obtained by seeing that there is nothing to forgive because there is nothing that is real. Such a way of thinking is usually applied when forgiving others. What if it is applied in reverse? A person might conclude that anything he or she does doesn't need to be forgiven, because it isn't real. For example, the act of stealing donated money doesn't need to be forgiven because such activity didn't actually take place, according ACIM's way of thinking.

Hi Roger
I listened to Peters podcast and WOW! What an amazing man and interesting life he has lead. I can see why you mentioned it with what I wrote. I really felt a kinship with him, some parts of our journeys are quite similar and some of the things he said gave me food for thought so I plan to listen to it again when I can explore my thoughts more.

I made a few notes as I listened so I will comment on them, the first being that he carried on the earth belief that God is a human type man/male being. There is absolutely no evidence of that, why for one would a creative being be only male? Wouldn't it be more likely to be both or neither gender? In my experience the higher up a being is the more genderless they are and insist on being. Spirit guides are made up of soul collectives, that are both male and female past lives, and God came before that and is beyond that. I have found no evidence that god is a man or a human or has anything to do with the religious dogma we humans complicate life with. It blew me away that he would have such a mystical experience and then become religious. But that's just my opinion.

I could really relate with how he felt that life was like a cartoon after that experience and not wanting to take it seriously. Its something I struggle with on a regular basis. But we are here for a reason, we are being tested, our memories are wiped so we will believe this is real and relevant. We will not have all the answers while incarnated, and the answers are not the same for each of us. Some of us are meant to experience love and some of us are meant to be alone. The law of attraction works so long as the things you are trying to attract are meant for you in this life time.

He said I'm here but I'm not from here...that's exactly how I feel and the wiser I get the more I know that is true. I believe it is everyone's truth if they wake up enough.

I too was a paramedic, for 10 years and had many mystical experiences on the job.

He said that he needed that experience to want to be here and I agree, but it made me remember what I was yearning for and sometimes that's too much like a broken heart. But I have to see it as a gift that I am meant to explore and share. They didn't have to show me so much of the other side, but they did and I am blessed because of it. 

Hes a really well spoken man and I really enjoyed his story, thank you for sharing.

M

I would like to add something to my last response to Maise.

I was watching the news and they showed the wild fires in Australia. They showed people who were helping Koala Bears. These bears were quite thirsty and people gave them water.

One of ACIM's lessons says "the natural disaster you see doesn't exist." I don't remember the precise words, and I don't have my copy of the book with me. Whatever the case, this lesson,  along with the other lessons, serve the purpose of brainwashing people to believe that they don't need to become concerned about the difficulties that exist in this world, because they don't exist. I'm certain that the people in Australia that are experiencing wild fire difficulties, will tell you differently. The compassion that some people showed towards Koala Bears, did in fact exist as it took place.

Maise:

For the news I saw, the Koala Bear cyclist clip was shown. I found it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwf9yQhYVrA

Regarding some ACIM students believing that nothing exists so you don't have to worry about people and other life forms suffering in natural disasters, sometimes people consider a way of thinking that differs from how other people think as deep thinking.

Of course, in order for a person to exist as such a supposed deep thinker, such person has to actually exist. When I was involved with guru-based nondual teachings back in the 1980s, I believed in such a way, partly because it troubled me that so much suffering was taking place within this world. One day I had the insight that all time happens at the same time, therefore, when I reach a state beyond the problems of this world, I'll find that all other people have done the same.

In a way I still believe that this is true, however, I also realize that since I have to experience my life for better or worse, then so does everybody else, even if our moment of transcending this realm that includes suffering happens in the same now.

Maise:

One of the main sources of nonduality is guru-based Advaita Vedanta from India.

Interpretations vary, but nondual teachings basically contend that individuality is an illusion, our mind aspect of being doesn't have anything to do with who we are, the manifested universe is a non-existent illusion (Ajata Vada doctrine claims that nothing was ever created) and only pure awareness exists. Yet the gurus who teach such doctrine often allow themselves to be put on a pedestal and treated in an adoring worshipful.

Ramana Maharshi is one of the most well known nondual gurus from the 19th century. One time while meditating my guidance showed me an image of Ramana sitting at one side of a table. He wore a business suit, even though while alive he wore just a loin cloth. A lady sat at the other half of the table. I intuited what this meant right away. Ramana in a business suit was a way of saying that he was too conservative with his awareness only outlook. The creative aspect of being, as represented by the lady who sat at the table, is also a substantial part of reality.

If a person thinks about it he or she might find that if the creative aspect of being was never utilized there wouldn't be anything to be aware of, not even love, peace and joy. After all, these are things that we perceive, are aware of, when we use the mind and creative aspects of being so we can be aware of such things.

ACIM is basically nonduality clothed in some terminology that might seem Christian but isn't. The being (s) the course comes from tries to fool people into believing that the course comes from Jesus when it doesn't.


Maisie wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2020 at 1:39am:

Maise said: "I say its an illusion because when I was being encouraged to forgive my step father they showed me that much of my suffering was based on my beliefs about the abuse...I'm not worthy, I deserved it, he consciously chose me to harm etc. When in fact he had sacrificed his soul, it was unconscious and he was being influenced by his alcohol addiction and entities he had attached to him. No conscious, being was even involved. I was chosen simply because I was quiet, withdrawn, sensitive and had an unconscious mother who wasn't awake.

Recoverer responds: "When you wrote unconscious above, did you mean this in a literal sense, or in the sense that your step father and mother weren't spiritually awake? Or do you mean they went wherever their psychological conditioning (and influencing entities, in the case of your step father) directed them?

Maise:

Thank you for the clarification. It sounds like they made a bad choice.