Hawkeye: interesting point re reinforcing negative energy.  For me it's a toss up between being all rose tinted glasses in a newagey kind of way and being more realistic about the belief system you're working in.  Realistic as in what can reasonably be accomplished and what is beyond the current abilities of those you are trying to help.
If folk are cowed by some type of psychic dictatorship of some black magic elite as in Haiti, there's only so much you can do, no matter how catholic they appear on the surface.  For example, if retrieving in southern Italy, where the mafia still has mega control, you can't wish it away and say "well they're all catholic".  Their vibration will lead them to a lower bst, purgatory if you like, and they'll be stuck there till they have the courage to get out.  Somewhere on this site Bruce talks about getting folk
out the back door of fundamentalist fear-ridden bst's; it's much the same.
In my first disaster retrieval, (Central/South America almost a decade ago) my guide tried to show me how to operate but I was overcome with the group agonies and couldn't be coldly efficient like you have to be (like a cop not needing to cry while doing his duty); but he did show me how in catholic countries imitating a priest is the best thing to do; Catholics will almost always obey a priest. (Recounted in my first book Eternal Life And How To Enjoy It)
Later I learnt to be Muslim when retrieving in Iran earthquake and Jewish-looking in Israel/Palestine.
You're tricking them but you're doing it in a  good cause.

cheers, gordon



hawkeye wrote on Jan 15^th, 2010 at 1:30pm:

Hawkeye, we seem to be saying much the same thing with different language.  There are plenty of bst and hollow heavens around , not just Haiti.  There are several retrievals from them posted in the retrieval archive testifying to the hold that some bst's have on their inhabitants.
How one moves from a strictly controlled bst, with folks enslaved to thought forms and their controllers and into a more relaxed, beautiful, but still rule bound hollow heaven from which folks glide upward to f27 or some nirvana state is a subtle, and as yet unexplored, series of transitions.
You're right: I am more powerful than I often know.  But balance that against what souls realistically are able to accept as their beliefs slowly lose limitation.  It's best to guide them gradually so that their cherished belief systems don't crash in tatters about them.  Taking them straight to the godhead, when they've only just decided ten minutes before that their church is a bit old fashioned and tradition bound, won't help.  That's a wild example of course, but I hope you get my point.
In many tribal societies the shamans and voodoo type practitioners have such a hold on them that the people don't even think about it that much, it's such a big part of the fabric of their lives. They don't think they're going to stay in some hollow heaven from which they can only reincarnate into the controlled part of the physical plane below; they think they are blessed to be in the real heaven they are so hypnotized, and it wouldn't occur to them to reincarnate anywhere else but physical plane Haiti, despite the fact that they could reincarnate anywhere (and of course gain greater experience by doing so).
In my "own" nation, Britain, we got stuck, as did many Europeans, by worshipping the glory of our Empire, thinking that British was best and reincarnating over and over again in the same country, taking our limiting thought forms with us from life to life, until the ascended masters thought to end this European evolutionary log-jam by opening up North America for settlement 200 years back, and making it appealing to Europeans and giving us fresh cultural identities and ideals to strive for.
Hope this example suffices.
Below is the original Haiti experience from my second book "More Adventures In Eternity" (written in 2004)
____

Latest destruction is on Haiti, where many souls have
been thrust out of bodies in the last twenty-four hours. The regular disaster rescue teams are already at work, but I know their efforts are being hampered by the vice grip that black magic and its local
practitioners have on the culture. Haiti is perhaps the primary example on the planet of a local black hierarchy of shaman/wizard types who define themselves by their ability to control a populace
by continually rotating them from the physical to the lower astral and back again. Their propaganda of fear is extremely effective in keeping the majority of souls from ever ascending higher than the rigidly controlled purgatory/paradise just above the physical
island mass.
   Many priesthoods have pulled similar stunts throughout history, with varying degrees of success, and as free will trumps every other card in our planetary game they must be allowed to exhaust the energy of their illusion without interference. This is
not cruel and unusual punishment for innocent souls involved, for as with all belief systems, planet and history wide, they have all allowed themselves to be seduced by a thought form which enslaves them. As with all believers they exchange their cosmic
birthright of absolute individual freedom for a known territory of strict regulation ruled by local power brokers who see themselves pretty much as deities.

   The retrieval work, such as you have seen previously described, is seriously hampered by the local power structure, which maintains its own retrieval network to support its astral set-up. Inthis they are not unlike the third world physical plane drug barons, who proudly act as community pillars in their resource communities.
   What we do in situations like this is wait around for souls whose colors show that they are ready to move onward and upward. Then there can be a bit of a tussle, as the local network representatives realize they are losing one more slave. Personally I
prefer the zap of white light method, where instead of arguing the toss with the local rep, I suck up the soul essence of the deceased to a mid-level astral reception center suitable for a peasant in the
tropics. There they can relax and settle the choice for themselves without listening to the bickering of rival helpers, which often only confuses them. No method is perfect, of course, and light-workers have to improvise, constantly aware that their efforts, through well meaning, could be misconstrued.

As some of the more perceptive among you may see, this brings up the whole issue of the ethics of moving souls along. What right do we light workers actually have, whether we’re helping a lonely,
weak-willed young soul trapped in an oppressive purgatorial realm, or an about-to-be-former adherent of a strict rules-and-punishment sect or police state, or a fairly free-thinking Christian or Muslim who feels more than a bit itchy in his so-called heaven, in altering that individual’s perceptions? Basically, the same right or opportunity that any human has, to advise a friend who seeks advice. If, for example, your workmate, recently arrived in your city, tells you on coffee break that he can’t stand his neighbors or,
for that matter, his neighborhood, wouldn’t you offer him some sound advice based on your greater knowledge of the urban area?

Plenty of physical plane Christians have had the experience of meeting someone from another denomination, at a barbeque perhaps, who, after a drink or two, will insinuate certain discomforts
with his church/minister/congregation. Haven’t they all
offered their own church as an alternative? We lightworkers/helpers face an almost constant stream of such decisions in our work. And, like high school career councilors we have just enough on our charges to see where they need to go, as well as
where they want to go. Certainly there’s a certain amount of sneaking folk out the back door of some belief system communities, usually the more repressive kind that require a quotient of
psychic slavery for survival, but the joy of liberating a yearning soul generally trumps all other concerns at that point. As they say in certain sectors of the new-age community, grace trumps karma every time.
***********************


cheers, gordon

Thanks for clarifying Gordon. After reading your post I understand better of your intention. Whats the name of your book? Perhaps I can find a copy here in Canada.
And you Thomas, keep up your good work. I only wish I was better suited to retrieve a number of those souls at the same time as you seem so adapt at. With more practice I am sure I will be able to. Don't forget to get out into the outlying areas as well. Far more work to be done there. I find the emotion of dealing with the children effects me the most so far. Releasing the emotion before returning to C1 seems not completed some times and there are times where I find myself somewhat depressed from it. Do you have any sudgestion for me in assisting in releasing this emotion or leaving it behind?
Joe

Strange, I was trying to visit again this morning. Seems like some of them are coming straight up out of the ground, seemed like I saw a lot of them floating straight up like whispy smoky trails. I couldn't quite understand that, but was trying to cover a lot of territory in my meditation, in a number of directions. Received an all clear message, all healed. That's all I know for now.

I know that most literature lists Catholicism as the moajor religion of Haiti, but today on a BBC world news report I heard someone say that about half the people practice some form of voodoo. They probably practice both at the same time. If you look at Haitian art, which is very fun to look at because it tends to be colorful, you will see both religions portrayed, probably with equal frequency. (Of course, to some of us, Catholicism is just another form of a voodo like religion. If I was dead and you appeared to me as a priest, I would probably think I was in Hell) The issue arose in connection with the cultural problems created by burying people in mass graves. This is very disrespectful in the local vodoo religions (which have another name but I forgot it). The voodoo priests figure in the public life; one was interviewed and indicated he had spoken with the Haitian president about this problem (of disrespect to the dead). I would be more convinced with the retrievals if you ended up impersonating voodoo priests (based on the culture) rather than Catholic priests (based on common belief about the culture). If the BBC can figure this out, surely your guides can too.

I would imagine there could be some retrievals in those mass graves? Kind of gruesome. Lots of dead children, in the mass graves.

Also looking at the history of Haiti, it seems one could possibly be retreiving someone from a prior disaster. I don't suppose it matters much which time frame someone might come from. Here's an article with a list:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1202772.stm

I can't help but wonder what this country means to the world experience. Death is a way of life there.

Thomas, you said a most beautiful thing:  "You are the angel someone is waiting on today."  I will treasure that.

Lucy/Hawkeye,

just wanted to add a couple of points to this stream of thought.  A book that reveals some of the darker side of Haitian Voodoo is "The Serpent And The Rainbow" by Wade Davis.  There are other sources but they use Africa more as a source of that type of activity.

And yes Hawkeye, there's not a heck of a lot of difference between a hollow heaven subtly controlled by Voodoo practitioners and Fundamentalist Protestants.  Or fundamentalist anything really.  Souls stay in these bst's out of ignorance and fear until they are ready to leave and then their thought/yearning/light becomes apparent to helpers (either astral helpers or folk like us, projecting) and they are given what they need.  But that doesn't mean a helper won't have some kind of face off with those who see themselves as 'defenders of the faith'/righteous gatekeepers.  I've 'been there/done that' a few times now.
Memories of the Iran earthquake a few years back: thought i put up a post on this but can't find it now, but i do recall having arguments with other retrievers over the issue of encouraging those whose families had all passed (or mostly passed), leaving them as 'sole survivor', to just leave their bodies while sleeping and be reunited with their loved ones.  Other retrievers thought it was terrible/sacrilegious that I would suggest such a thing, and indeed some of the 'survivors' couldn't leave their deeply religious views behind long enough to even contemplate the possibility.
My dictating belief was/is that the physical and astral planes are in reality "one", and that all this drama concerning the endless passage to and fro between them is highly overrated, almost always as a result of religious indoctrination.
I could sell that as something more than a belief, as some kind of cosmic truth, which i really think it is, but i know that for others it can be no more than a belief.  Yet another belief.

cheers for now:  gordon






hawkeye wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2010 at 1:30pm:

Hawkeye another story on BBC included an ionterview with someone who works at these disasters, sorry I don't recall the agency, but she disputed the idea that the bodies have to be buried right away to prevent disease; she said that isn't really true. Though I imagine the smell would be overpowering. It would probably give many people closure to know for sure their relative died and was buried in a particular place. I guess I wondered if the ones who had died were attached to the idea of needing to bury the body properly. But it makes more sense if they are stuck at the place where the trauma occurred.

I don't know what vodou thinks of the afterlife. I don't think that classic movie "Black Orpheus" is a way to get info on this.

Not much difference between the physical and the astral, well that's an interesting view. The idea takes some ...guilt...away from the time I prayed that a woman might just die. She was injured in a bad fire, but the worst part was, all of her family died outright, all her children, while she lingered here. Then she too died. Maybe she just neededthe right retreiver to come and visit her in-between.