Conversation Board - Tom Campbell is too intellectual

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Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Jan 31^st, 2020 at 3:37pm

I just listened to some of the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBo5VivyePE

I commented as below. Going by what Tom says, people such as Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen where just Avatars, and were heartlessly eaten by their IOUCs. I believe if Tom listened to his heart a little more, he would find differently.

"I believe Tom is a bit confused. Instead of using the term IOUC I will use the term Higher Self (I mean this in an Oversoul kind of way). When we rejoin our higher selves, we don't get snuffed out of existence. Think of how heartless a higher self would be, if it snuffed its projections out of existence, once they return. How could a being actually lower entropy, if it was so heartless and love lacking, that it snuffs it projections (slaves) out of existence, after they complete going through all they go through while incarnated in places such as this world.

I've experienced divine love many times, and there is no way love-based beings are going to snuff all of us Uncle Fred's out of existence.

Consider Soul Groups. Many IOUCs are like one unit, yet they are also distinct. When we rejoin our Higher Self we are a part of our larger being. Check out Ron Krueger's NDE.

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1ron_k_nde.html

Consider how Bruce Moen made contact with his Disk (higher self) members. I have done the same.

If a person wants to lose entropy, he better make certain that he doesn't get so tangled up in what "his' logic says, so that he can't listen to his heart. It is not illogical for conscious beings to be one and many at the same time. It is not illogical for us to be aware of our distinctiveness and Total Self (IOUC) at the same time. Each thinking unit doesn't need to be dissolved, in order for an IOUC to be functional.

Consider reading France Rae Key's the team books, to get a better idea of how we can be one and many at the same time.

Is there a time when the Creator of all is going to have to heartlessly gobble up all of the IOUCs, so it can exist in a functional way?

If IOUCs can evolve, why can't people such as Uncle Fred evolve?

Some of Tom's logic is faulty. Sometimes our logic is twisted in the direction we want it to go. When we "grow up," we don't allow it to be twisted. It is not immature for a person to want to know if their deceased loved one is doing okay."

I have been able to come to some logical consistencies without concluding the same as Tom.

Did Tom have free will when he came to his conclusions? If not, how can you trust what he says?"

P.S. Elisa Medhus, author of the book "My Son and the Afterlife" was mentioned in the video. At the back of the book are words where Tom praises the book. Jaime Butler was the supposed channel for this book. Consider the below.

https://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1569288214

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2020 at 6:11pm by Recoverer 2 »

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rondele

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #1 - Feb 1^st, 2020 at 6:25pm

Albert, I don't understand 90% of your post but I did want to comment about Medhus and Butler. IMO they are both frauds. I bought the book after seeing Medhus interviewed on tv. She impressed me as being very credible. Her background was impressive.

The book was so off the wall that my first thought was that the suicide of her son must have messed with her mind. But that would be a charitable explanation. Jamie Butler obviously colluded with Medhus knowing a money making scheme when she saw it.

Turns out the book was just the beginning of the scam. She has plenty of youtube videos where Medhus' son brings in many dead celebrities including Jesus. It's so obviously phony that you have to wonder how so many people can be so gullible.

Which brings up Tom. If he praises the book I wouldn't spend any time whatsoever listening to him. Unfortunately the afterlife provides a magnificent opportunity for unscrupulous people to thrive.

R

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Recoverer 2 Super Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 553 South San Francisco Gender:	Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual Reply #2 - Feb 1^st, 2020 at 7:55pm Roger: I believe that Tom is a smart guy, but none of us is perfect, and any of us, including myself, can get it wrong now and then. My post will only make sense if you listen to the video I provided a link for. I suppose I could've written it better, but I'm busy taking care of someone now.
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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2020 at 11:59am

A part of understanding what I wrote is being familiar with Tom's terminology. I am no expert.

Going by what I understood, within the video I provided a link for, Tom said that say you have an uncle named Fred. Tom passes away and you make contact with him through a medium. Tom says that Fred no longer exits, because the unit that projected him into this world, his IOUC (Disk, I-there, Oversoul, Higher Self, Total Self), gathers Fred up after he dies, collects the data Fred created while he was in this world, and then dissolves Fred (Tom actually used the word "dissolve") into itself.

As a result it is no longer possible to make actual contact with Fred, rather, the data base makes it seem as if contact is made with Fred.

If you extend this way of thinking to when Bruce Moen made contact with his Disk members including Robert Monroe, he didn't actually do so, because they no longer exist.

I don't believe this is so at all. The uniqueness of any of us doesn't need to go away, in order for us to rejoin our disk.

IOUC's are able to be a part of Soul Groups, without letting go of their distinctiveness.

If I remember correctly, Bruce Moen spoke of the importance of listening to our hearts. I believe he "IS" correct. If we do so, we are less likely to be led astray by faulty logic. Pretty much anything can seem logical, if we want it to seem logical.

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Recoverer 2 Super Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 553 South San Francisco Gender:	Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual Reply #4 - Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 1:13pm For some reason the edit mode went away, I meant to say "Fred passes away" above rather than Tom.
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Vicky YaBB Administrator Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 2170 Colorado Gender:	Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual Reply #5 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 1:52am Recoverer 2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 1:13pm: For some reason the edit mode went away, I meant to say "Fred passes away" above rather than Tom. Try logging out and then signing back in...that should bring back the "modify" tab.
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rondele

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #6 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 4:32pm

Albert, I recall in one of Bruce's books that he said we are "probes" sent by our disks to gather information. I don't recall him saying anything about our individual identities being dissolved upon our death. Nor did he explain what sort of information our disks wanted or needed.

Sounds to me that TC took what Bruce wrote and added his own spin to it. I personally wouldn't pay much attention to what he says. After all, no one really knows exactly what happens to us when we die. Which is why I don't spend much time worrying about it.

It's a binary outcome..either we continue in some form or we don't. We've already won the lottery by being born in human form to begin with. Considering the trillions of life forms I'm pretty happy the way it turned out.

R

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #7 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 10:11pm

Vicky:

Thank you for the feedback.

Roger:

I took exception to what Tom said. I figure the process of creation started with God. I figure God is too wise and loving to create numerous beings, have them go through many challenges, just to have their identities dissolved when it comes time to extract data.

Tom says the Creative process is benevolent. Going by what I've experienced, it is possible to love another to an extent where you consider them precious. Certainly a benevolent Creator understands about loving his creations even more than I do. Therefore, such a creator wouldn't set up a game plan that follows the parameters that Tom seemed to outline in the video I provided a link for.

I believe Peter Panagore is correct about creation being started by a Creator who loves his creations. I'll rely on something such as what Peter found out during his NDE, rather than what somebody's logic says.

Tom might recall that there are many scientists who don't believe that the spiritual side of existence is a reality, because of what their supposedly surefire logic tells them.

https://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1572971802/0#0

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Maisie

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #8 - Mar 18^th, 2020 at 2:59am

Tom Campbells work is what lead me to Monroe and then Moen, so I will always be grateful to him for that. But I got half way through MBT book one and gave up. It was beyond my ability to stay focused let alone understand. Having watched a few of his videos since experiencing my own travels, I think his over all ideas are right, but its difficult to compare the details when he has never shared his own experiences.

I'd imagine with a mind like his, the experiences he has are quite different to my own and almost impossible to compare. I do like his binaurals though. Just the tones without guidance. He says they are to take the training wheels off after The Gateway Series.

I'll watch that video tonight.

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #9 - Mar 18^th, 2020 at 1:23pm

Maisie:

Tom says that he doesn't speak of his experiences because he doesn't want to influence what other people find out, yet he has written a long book and made many videos that explain how he believes things are. Sounds contradictory to me.

I tried reading his books a few times, but decided I'd rather figure things out for myself than have someone else provide their detailed explanation. Some of the things he said matched up with what I have found out for myself; however, I wouldn't go with the digital thing to the extent he does.

I believe existence is miraculous, and I don't want to overdo intellect based explanations.

I do like to learn from others to some extent. I find it more helpful to read about experiences people have had, such as some of the experiences you shared, than what somebody's supposedly infallible logic came up with. I figure that if my logic can be wrong, then so can anybody's logic, regardless of how much they believe they have dealt with all of the inconsistencies. As far as I'm concerned it is quite inconsistent to say a creator that is benevolent has set up a process where all us uncle Fred's get snuffed out of existence once our IOUCs are done using us like dispensable slaves.

Maisie wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 2:59am:

Tom Campbells work is what lead me to Monroe and then Moen, so I will always be grateful to him for that. But I got half way through MBT book one and gave up. It was beyond my ability to stay focused let alone understand. Having watched a few of his videos since experiencing my own travels, I think his over all ideas are right, but its difficult to compare the details when he has never shared his own experiences.

I'd imagine with a mind like his, the experiences he has are quite different to my own and almost impossible to compare. I do like his binaurals though. Just the tones without guidance. He says they are to take the training wheels off after The Gateway Series.

I'll watch that video tonight.

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Maisie

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #10 - Mar 18^th, 2020 at 9:22pm

Ok Im going to attempt a quote...

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned it is quite inconsistent to say a creator that is benevolent has set up a process where all us uncle Fred's get snuffed out of existence once our IOUCs are done using us like dispensable slaves.

This is a theme that Dolores Cannons series 'The Convoluted Universe' shares with Tom. However her clients under hypnosis go on to say that joining with the central sun/source is not a permanent thing and they are also free to continue experiencing and having further adventures as an individual even after they have joined the collective. As I understand being within the collective is a wonderful feeling and not something to fear.

What did he mean by calling RM and BM avatars?

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #11 - Mar 21^st, 2020 at 12:50pm

Maise:

I have read quite a bit of the information that comes from hypnosis sessions, including some of what Dolores Cannon wrote.

Some of the information provided seems accurate, but some doesn't. I found that information obtained by some hypnotists contradicts what other hypnotists have found.

During the time period I was reading Dolores Cannon I received a spirit message to use my discrimination, because some of what she says isn't accurate. One night I was meditating (this was after Dolores' body had died), I saw an image of her with a distressed look, and got the impression that she mislead people while in this world.

I also received a message about hypnotherapist Dr. Shakuntala Modi that made the point that she is misleading people. Some of what her books say sounds okay, but some doesn't. In some ways what Michael Newton found varies quite a bit from what Shakuntala found.

One time I was meditating and I wondered about what hypnotists find out, and I suddenly experienced myself in a classroom that was led by a hypnotist at the front. The feeling I got was that he was misleading people in an insidious way.

It has been found that fake memories can be created by hypnosis. Through PSI, a hypnotist might influence a hypnotized person with his beliefs at a subconscious level.

Raymond Moody (one of the pioneers of NDE research) wrote a book and within it he spoke of a group regression session he attended, and some of the people within the group had the same past life experience.

If I needed to go to a river to get water I wouldn't use a bucket that has holes in it, because by the time I get back to camp I would lose most if not all of the water placed in the bucket. It would depend upon how many holes the bucket has.

I figure the above way of thinking applies to information obtained through hypnosis. If there are too many holes in the information obtained, it might not be reliable. I figure no knowledge is better than false information no matter how enticing the false information seems.

Maisie wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 9:22pm:

Ok Im going to attempt a quote...

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned it is quite inconsistent to say a creator that is benevolent has set up a process where all us uncle Fred's get snuffed out of existence once our IOUCs are done using us like dispensable slaves.

This is a theme that Dolores Cannons series 'The Convoluted Universe' shares with Tom. However her clients under hypnosis go on to say that joining with the central sun/source is not a permanent thing and they are also free to continue experiencing and having further adventures as an individual even after they have joined the collective. As I understand being within the collective is a wonderful feeling and not something to fear.

What did he mean by calling RM and BM avatars?

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #12 - Mar 21^st, 2020 at 10:42pm

I understand where you are coming from, I have read about half of her books, some of her books are decades apart and there are inconsistencies. But I also believe the information had to come to us slowly or we would not cope. Imagine if aliens landed tomorrow? Humans horde toilet paper when there is a respiratory virus going around, I cant imagine how they will behave if the ET's show up. I think her works were right for the time, opened minds and much of the information in my OBE sessions backs up what she says. E.g. I have spoken to a mantis being.

Im happy to remain curious but keep an open mind. I really don't think we could handle the whole truth while incarnated.

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #13 - Mar 22^nd, 2020 at 10:32am

"It has been found that fake memories can be created by hypnosis. Through PSI, a hypnotist might influence a hypnotized person with his beliefs at a subconscious level"

When Bruce was actively posting on ak, I recall when I had mentioned Michael Newton and what some of the subjects placed under deep hypnosis had reported. Bruce was basically skeptical. His point was that some people subconsciously want to please the hypnotist and therefore what they report needs to be viewed with that in mind. He didn't outright reject the claims in the book but encouraged that we not automatically accept everything in the book.

R

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Re: Tom Campbell is too intellectual
Reply #14 - Mar 22^nd, 2020 at 11:43am

Regarding hoarding, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and for the past two weeks I haven't been able to find toilet paper. I'm rationing what I have.

I went by the bottled water section once, and these two guys were filling up their cart with bottled water. They had a very strong me, myself and I vibe going on as they did this.

Maisie wrote on Mar 21^st, 2020 at 10:42pm:

I understand where you are coming from, I have read about half of her books, some of her books are decades apart and there are inconsistencies. But I also believe the information had to come to us slowly or we would not cope. Imagine if aliens landed tomorrow? Humans horde toilet paper when there is a respiratory virus going around, I cant imagine how they will behave if the ET's show up. I think her works were right for the time, opened minds and much of the information in my OBE sessions backs up what she says. E.g. I have spoken to a mantis being.

Im happy to remain curious but keep an open mind. I really don't think we could handle the whole truth while incarnated.

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