I Am Dude,

I have a right to my own opinion which I've expressed.  It's not an attack and should not be seen as one.  I question why Don continues to undermine what "simple-minded and naive" people like me believe whole-heartedly in.

It's as if nothing that I've experience matters because I don't measure up in Don's eyes to his criteria.  And I believe in the basis of having one's own direct experience with which to base your belief. 

I don't understand the purpose of debunking.  I guess that's my whole gist.  Why debunk other people's beliefs and claims?  Seriously, why??

Instead, have your own claims to make!  That, in a nutshell, is the purpose of Bruce's work and teachings. 

So I asked Don my honest questions and gave my honest views of how he comes across to me.  It's not an attack.  I could just as well call what Don does as an "attack".  But there's no point in arguing semantics because that's just petty and beside the point.

The "just ESP" argument doesn't hold water for me.  If ESP is used as a means of communication, how does that equate to not being actual contact with the deceased?  See, again we are boiling it down to semantics.  I know an awful lot about using ESP and various other forms of psychic senses of perception, what we call nonphysical senses of perception.  And I know this from my OWN personal experience.  I don't have to fall back on quoting other authors to back up what I know and believe. 

I don't have to debunk the use of psychic ability because I know first-hand how it works, why it works, and that it's real and validated. 

Let me provide a very simple analogy that is not to be taken as an "attack".  It's just going to be used for simplification purposes.  Let's say that I ask you, "Why don't you debunk the Bible and Jesus?  Why don't you try to prove them?"  My point is, you can't debunk or prove them right?  We can only rely on what's been written in the past about the Bible and Jesus, what people teach and preach about it, and what your own faith and religion, beliefs, and personal experiences tell you, right? 

I don't base my experience on what other people have written or what they tell me.  I base it on my own direct experience.

Like I said, Don's first reply to my question was to say that it was "simple-minded and naive" to trust one's own direct experience and to only go by that.  Meaning, he says that's not good enough and that his criteria must be followed in order to find the truth.  Well, that's Don's opinion. 

I don't call him simple-minded and naive...which I find to be more of an "attack" than what I have said to him. 

It is worthwhile to ask why is Dude still on this site. As his below post shows, he believes all new age thought is Satanic.

If he doesn't appreciate Bruce and his work, why does he hang out at this site? He should go to A Born Again Christian  forum where it is considered fashionable to make blanket statements of new age thought.

I doubt that Bruce set up this site so Fundamentalist Christians that like to demonize everything that is contrary to their Biblical beliefs, could try to convert others to their way of thinking.


http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1491614012/0#0

I Am Dude wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 10:30pm:


But if information is accessed via ESP, why does that assume to mean it's not from a spirit? 

Again it just seems like semantics.  What kind of route of accessing information from a spirit would be real to you since you don't like calling it ESP?  Is it the idea of ESP that seems "less than" to you? 

I personally don't use the term ESP.  I use terms like nonphysical perception and psychic ability, but these are just umbrella terms for many types of ways of perceiving. 

Do you see these terms differently or do they mean the same to you as ESP?


On the side topic you bring up of the possibility of deceptive spirits, just because some information can be false, it doesn't negate that other information is real.  I think the real disagreement we're in is the "half glass empty" notion.  I see the half glass full, the positive.

The positive for me is that as a person who is psychic, it's true that I don't get everything right, but what I do get right is outstanding.  It's also true that I am not able to be psychically aware of everything.  But what I am aware of is outstanding.  It's outstanding to have any form of psychic ability.  It's truly remarkable. 

So yes, I guess I see your "half glass empty" point Dude.  Some people are frauds, some get things wrong, some get deceived, etc. 

But I'm still very happy on my side of the fence, where I know what I know through my own direct experience.  I've had such amazing experiences, including contact with the dead, with validation and verification and proof beyond doubt. 

I wish you well in your search for whatever it is that your beliefs are leading you to.  You may not find what I've found and that's ok.  I don't judge what that may be.  I say to each his own. 

I honestly just wanted to know why Don was so adamant about pressing this continued debate of his.  Although, I see now that you and Don don't want to "debate" it.  You just want to talk about it a lot.  Seems boring to me.  I say that not as an "attack", seriously I don't mean that. 

What I mean is that I have been psychic since I was very young but my parents didn't understand it.  Of course as a small child you don't have the proper words or know-how to explain this kind of stuff.  But even as I grew up I was surrounding by people who couldn't understand my interests and they were not willing to believe it...mostly due to religious beliefs, such as a Christian co-worker telling me to "be careful of the devil's work.  She thought psychic ability was the devil's work.  I don't understand that, but like I said, to each his own.

So as a adult I've stuck with my desire and beliefs, and have studied and practiced and developed my psychic abilities.  No, I'm by no means a great psychic.  I don't call myself "a psychic".  But my point is I've learned more than I could have imagined. 

And you're right...this isn't my thread so this isn't about me.  I am done chiming in my take on things.  I just wanted to add my 2 cents in since other people who don't post will be reading this conversation and they may find my take on it interesting.

Vicky wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 11:32pm:


Let's say there are two main ways to receive information nonphysically. One is to access some type of "akashic record," tuning into a state of consciousness in which information is directly accessed from some kind of nonphysical informational energy field, whatever you want to call it. The other way is to receive the information indirectly by means of communication with a spirit, in which you are relying on the word of another being rather than tapping into the information directly.

So the point is, how do we distinguish the two, and how do we know we are not deceived in the conclusion we come to regarding the source of the information? Don has provided solid evidence to indicate that it is not as simple as some teachers lead people to believe.

While we are talking, Recoverer has again targeted me in his post.
Quote:


I have been respectful to everyone here and I don't deserve to be singled out, told to leave the forum and have lies told about me. He continues to bring up past posts and make false claims as a way to try to discredit me. I don't know why he is still allowed to make such posts. They are personally offensive and contribute absolutely nothing good to the forum.

Kathy:

Don't expect other people to not be willing to see what is going on, simply because you aren't willing to see what is going on.

If you believe that Vicky and I are seeing something that isn't there, perhaps this has more to do with your reluctance to see what has taken place, than what is so.

What would you think if Don and Dude went to Tom Campbell's forum and said that Tom is either deluded or misled by lower dimension beings, and then tried to convert people to their form of Christianity? Would this be a good thing?

What if some extreme Islamic people walked into one of Don's churches, referred to its members as the Christian Ghetto, and then tried to convert everybody to their form of Islam. Would this be a good thing to do?

You really don't do Don a favor when you coddle him. Sometimes it is nicer to speak the truth.


Lights of Love wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2017 at 11:29pm:

Dude,

Since you addressed me I will come back and respond. 

So you use in your example "nonphysical informational energy field" vs communication with a spirit, and you're asking how do we distinguish between the two?  How do we know we are not deceived in the conclusion we come to? 

What if there is no way to get the kinds of answers and proof you’re asking for in the way in which you’re looking for it?   Because if you really are searching for knowing how to distinguish between information from one source vs information from another, the answer is to have experience with one and experience with the other, and then base beliefs and truths on that experience, so that any time you experience one or the other you will know which is which. 

If you can formulate beliefs based on your own experience, and those beliefs alter and expand your consciousness awareness it will change something at the core of your Being, not just the core of your logical, intellectual mind.  That kind of change is real spiritual growth.  That’s the truth that I am talking about…the truth that lives inside me, that is me, that defines my consciousness.  It can’t be taught.  I can’t teach you what you need in order to distinguish between the two and find your truth and your proof.  You have to experience it for yourself.  That’s more important to me than the intellectual proof and truth you’re seeking. 

As for how do you know you're not being deceived?  Well, maybe it comes down to knowing oneself well enough to trust your own judgement.  It's really as simple as that.   The "truth" that I have sought and know is something that exists within my Being.  Therefore I don't need to use something outside of me to prove or debunk it.   

I think what you’re looking for can only be found by you.  It's up to the individual to do their own investigating, and then when that step is reached, experience will be reached.  When that step is reached then new beliefs will be reached.  When that step is reached then you will probably not be asking these same questions. 

It's kind of like when you don't know something so you come up with all these questions that you think are important questions, when they really aren't the questions you'd ask after finding something out.  But you don't find it out until after you go through something step by step until you're able to see everything from another perspective. 

I've learned a lot from Don and if he's banned it'll be the forum's loss.

I think it's time to fill in the missing pieces. There's an agenda at work in the background. The agenda should be easy to see but it gets obscured in the midst of the current contretemps regarding Don.

Let's put it out there. Two members, one active on the forum and the other active in the background, are working in tandem to target specific people and engage in ad hominen attacks with accusations they cannot backup when challenged.

It just so happens that the folks they want removed are those who have stood up to them in the past. They have gone so far as to accuse me, Dude, 1796 (!) Kathy, and most of all Don as trying to engage in a "hostile takeover" of the site. This is preposterous but in keeping with their other equally preposterous posts in the past.

The irony is that it's they themselves who continually take over and hijack threads to promote their own beliefs. If they want examples I can provide them, whereas when they are challenged they cannot. Again, I can provide evidence of that as well.

For years these two have disrupted the forum. They are trying to gain traction for their own selfish purposes all the while pretending they are taking the moral high ground by protecting the forum.

Hostile takeover my butt.

R