I'd like to start a thread discussing the findings of Emanuel Swedenborg. I remember there being at least one thread centered on him about ten years ago but I am unable to located it. Being a newfound believer in the Bible, I'm looking to relate Swedenborg's out of body revelations with scripture and also with what modern explorers have discovered since then.

I know that Don is particularly knowledgeable on the subject, so hopefully he can contribute.

Here is a link to one of his more fascinating books if anyone cares to do some research for the discussion: http://www.swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heave...

I remember reading once where he said that a being like Michael is a collection of souls that do that type of work, rather than a particular angel.

Not such an active thread, but then I have been commanded not to contribute, by our member that is never in his body!   

I believe it is important to remember that the beings of love and light that exist aren't a bunch of dummies, so they need to present information to people in ways that people will be able to accept and comprehend. In Emanuel's time both he and the beings he worked with would have to be really careful with what he said. It could be that he played a role in getting some people to forget about an eternal fire filled hell that people supposedly get punished with.


Dude, why are you viewing things differently now? Sorry to say this, sometimes it seems as if you go to extremes with the approaches you take. For a while you were interested in Buddhism. Perhaps somewhat of a middle way is needed.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 1:25pm:


Ironically, Buddhism teaches the middle way.

I feel your view that I have extreme approaches may come from a lack of a comprehensive understanding, but we can let it go. I don't want to divert this thread to being about me, but I'll entertain your initial question anyway.

I came to realize that I had been conditioned to reject religion and the Bible in particular. This was especially true when I got into the new age philosophy and lifestyle. But recently I began to see that almost everything I have been researching for my entire adult life, particularly spiritual philosophy, spiritual experiences, religions, conspiracies (many different realms within conspiracy culture which interconnected and pointed to the same conclusion) and alternative/paranormal experiences and perspectives all supported the teachings of the Bible in some unique and intriguing way. Personal contemplation and meditation from a more open perspective led to some pretty powerful experiences.

Back on topic, it seems the religious doctrine of hell is not actually what is taught in the Bible, but is a distortion of original scripture. Thus Swedenborg did a great service by detracting people from that fear-based belief.

I found Don's old thread on Swedenborg if anyone is interested. http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1124309116/0

DocM wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:


I am currently studying both the OT and the NT, as I believe both are equally the word of YHWH. I find a lot of the history in the OT very fascinating. I am aware of one of ES's works where he interprets the book of Genesis, and I will get around to reading it eventually, although I am currently working on a literal analysis of scripture without adding anything to it.

The aspects of New Age belief you mentioned definitely sync with Yeshua's message, although there is also a lot in NA that goes against Biblical teachings and in general I see it as more of a deceptive force than anything else.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2017 at 12:29pm:


I'm not approaching it with fear, but rather discernment in being aware of potential deception.

Quote:


Right. I realized Christ was truth before I believed the Bible was, and this was mainly because I had doubts about the Bible regarding certain alleged contradictions and other negative things written in it which I had not completely understood or which had been taken out of context. I'm currently doing in depth research into these issues I had with the Bible and pleasantly finding that my preconceived notions were largely false.

Quote:


I can't say I remember exactly what you're referring to, but in general, I believe it is a real possibility that many channeled works come from demonic entities masquerading as beings of love and light. Although a few particular channels come to mind now.

One is Seth. I now believe that you were right in your assessment that he was deceptive in his degradation of Yeshua in his work. Drawing people in with complex theories of reality and throwing in a grand deception.

Another is Bashar. He claims to be an extraterrestrial who has made several prophecies regarding ET contact which have not come to pass.

Another is Paul Selig. In general his message is great but he has people constantly chant "I am Word." I know that Yeshua is considered to be the word of YHWH in the Bible, so I'm thinking that perhaps this is a way to get people to commit blasphemy. 

Oh by the way, the beings Paul channels are so giving, they allow him to charge $400.00 for a one hour reading and $250.00 for a half hour reading. I don't like to be a flip wiseguy, but give me a break.

   Hi Alan,

   Don't know if you remember or not, but awhile back, I gave a lengthy explanation of why I prefer to use "Yeshua" instead of "Jesus".  To sum it up very briefly/narrowly, it's my little rebellion to the Romanization of his teachings and movement.  I very much dislike why and how Rome became involved in using and manipulating his teachings/movement. 

   Also, if I had a friend, whom say was from Puerto Rico and was born with and used the name of Jose--I wouldn't call him "Joe" because I'm an English speaker.  I believe it would be more respectful to call such friends by their given birth names. 

  I don't think this Yeshua/Jesus individual particularly cares what we call him or not--he got a chuckle out of Bob Monroe labeling him as "He/She", "What I heard was a warm chuckle", then He/She says "I've never had that name before.". It's just MY preference and for a few reasons.  Besides the above points/issues, my Spirit/Disk had a life then (actually, a couple simultaneously), and both selves knew Yeshua in person.  These lifetimes are a bit of an influence in my present life.

  Again, it's a personal preference. This is not really an important issue, especially not one worth arguing about.  If you like Vanilla flavors and I prefer Chocolate flavors, I'm not going to tell you that your preference is wrong and that you should change it. It's completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Would be a waste of my breath/time as well as yours.

  There is no need to tell me my preference is wrong and that I should change it.  If it comes to an important and/or more universal issue, please feel free to try convince me about it.  I really don't mind people preaching at me; tend to find it amusing more than anything and if I sense sincerity on their part, then I try to listen to their argument/logic. 


  In any case, peace brother Alan.  I hope we can become friends in the afterlife--I get the sense that you have a pretty amazing and awesome Soul.    

Hi Alan, thank you for understanding.  Yes, I remember that we both have strong Celtic (which is actually originally Atlantean--the Atlanteans were the "red" ethnicity) heritage.

(Edit to add in reply to Recoverer's reply after mine. This body has plenty of same on arms etc, but not so much on face anymore. )

Recoverer 2 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2017 at 11:21am:


Nothing really, it is just long ago Justin mentioned in a post of his that he had red hair and freckles.

Maybe his freckles sort of merged like mine did in later life and our hair color became brownish instead, like mine did as a teenager. Sadly I am now snow white! 

A

Lately I've been contemplating the nature of the holy trinity of YHWH and researching the various viewpoints regarding same, trying to get an accurate sense of the concept as written in scripture. Swedenborg says the following in the very beginning of his book Heaven and Hell:

Quote:


This statement may seem to indicate a unitarian position rather than trinitarian, although I am aware that Swedenborg discusses the trinity in more detail in other works which I've yet to read, so my understanding of his position is still incomplete.

In my study of the Bible, I've come to learn that God actually forbids contacting and communicating with spirits and deceased humans. So coming from the perspective that the Bible is truly God's word, it makes sense that any spirit communicating with a living human will not be a spirit of God, at least not when the contact is initiated by the human, as God's angels would clearly follow God's word, and thus it seems we are dealing almost entirely with deceptive spirits and fallen angels whether it be through channeling, out of body travel, etc. This raises some major questions as to the validity of Swedenborg's writings, especially those which come from dialogues with "angels."

I Am Dude wrote on Apr 13^th, 2017 at 9:29pm:


Exactly and you wanted to ban me from commenting or contributing in this thread?

How did Jesus know about the things he knew about? It could be that he wasn't afraid to communicate with the spirit realm of being.

Yes, there are unfriendly beings out there, and apparently a number of people (e.g.; some channelers) get fooled by such beings, but that doesn't mean that nobody should make contact with the world of spirit.

Say a person wants to open up to divine love. In order to do so such a person will have to open up to the level of being where love-based spirit beings abide.  Even if a person doesn't have some sort of communication with such beings, this doesn't mean that such beings aren't there.

Is it okay to pray? Is it okay to receive help? Is it okay if somebody feels love and peace when he or she prays? If so, where does such love and peace come from?

Sure unfriendly beings can fool people, but so can books that supposedly have words that come from love-based beings. So a person always needs to use his (or her) discrimination, regardless of whether or not he makes conscious contact with spirit beings.

Plus, unfriendly beings are able to influence people even if people don't make conscious contact with them.  If you make conscious contact with them, you are more likely to see where unfriendly suggestions come from and refute them.  On the other hand, if a person is committed to being a good person, he or she can do well without making conscious contact.

I used to be afraid of unfriendly beings. This hurt me spiritually and made it difficult for me to open up to my spirit self, its connection to God and divine love. Nevertheless, I ventured "up" the route of communicating with spirit beings, and through a mixture of actual experiences with unfriendly beings and simulated experiences that my guidance created, I overcame most of my fear. I  say "most" as opposed to all, because the negativity unfriendly beings represent is unpleasant.

Because I did the above I am able to help with retrievals in a way that includes helping people that are  troubled by unfriendly beings. 

If we allow unfriendly beings to determine what we open up to spiritually, then we allow them to determine how much we grow spiritually. A part of opening up to God and the Oneness we are all a part of, is not being afraid of anything. Because we have free will and grace is always present, we'll always be okay as long as we choose wisely.

Dude:

Do you actually believe that God finds people detestable simply because they try to contact spirits with good intentions? Surely God can see into our hearts and know our intentions. Would he prefer us to act in a way that is courageous, or in a way that is fear based?

The Bible wasn't written by God himself. It was written by numerous men, men decided which chapters will be included, and men did the translating. There is more than one version of the Bible and numerous Christian denominations.

I believe I was correct the other day when I said that it seems as if you tend to be an extremist. I don't believe you are doing yourself a favor by following a path that seems so literal and fear based.

Moses was the author of Deuteronomy. Elsewhere within the Bible it says that Moses was told by God that when a lady gives birth to a son she is impure for four weeks and should stay away from others and sacrifice several animals (I don't remember which animals were named). If a lady gives birth to a girl, she is impure for 8 weeks and should sacrifice other types of animals. Do you believe that Moses actually received instructions from God, or perhaps he claimed to do so, and provided his own rules, or rules from whatever?

I love God to an extent where I will not allow myself to conclude that he gave instructions to people that don't make sense. Since my reasons for thinking in such a way are pure, I doubt that God finds me detestable.

Seriously, read everything Moses wrote with a mind that is free to discriminate, and see if everything he said seems acceptable.


I Am Dude wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 12:15pm:

I think there are very good reasons for God's laws, some of which it seems you have yet to consider. I also think that a person following his own way would consider what you've said to be courageous, while one following God's word may consider it foolish or shortsighted.

You can make this a personal thing and call me extremist, although from my perspective, I'm simply a guy who likes to do things the right way and give his all. You are mistaken to think that what I've said has anything to do with fear, although I've already explained that and you seem to have ignored it.

Anyone familiar with the many cases of negative, if not downright horrendous, life-ruining consequences of messing around in the spirit world understands the reason why our Heavenly Father forbids such a thing. Most cases may not even be realized for what they truly are due to the extremely deceptive nature of Satan and his crew and how blind a person can be when their ego is being gratified by such mystical experiences and one's attachments to such things is so strong.

By the way, the Counsel of Nicea myth has long been debunked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLtcREw5TJ8

Do a little research into demonic attacks and possession. It's quite real. As for me, I've had my share of experiences which would deter any sane individual from continuing astral projection.

I Am Dude wrote on Apr 14^th, 2017 at 11:21pm:


http://reasonsforjesus.com/astral-projection-exposed/


I have long told of the very real dangers of astral projection, in my case my consciousness twice ended up in the body of another person which was very very frighting

There is a form of OOBE and that is in death, in which we leave our bodies for the final time and take on glorious eternal spirit bodies fabricated by the Almighy to last forever.

Well, I am sorry if people have had such experiences and I really don't know what it has to do with a book written by numerous sources throughout history. I have never once seen anything of the sort. I have had so many interesting experiences over the years and not once have I been threatened or harmed by anything. In fact, I have always been free to leave any situation which was not of my choosing. There were times, however, that I did not realize that.

Alan that's a great website, I already had it saved in my bookmarks! Interesting idea about changing my name, I'll think it over. Thanks!

Doc, I had the idea that you were Jewish.

Of course it can't be proven that all spirit contact is demonic, but there is evidence that suggests a lot of it is, especially from a Christian perspective. Some get the idea that contact with demonic entities will result in becoming possessed like the exorcist movies, but it seems most demons have a more subtle and deceptive approach. Had this just been something written in the Bible with nothing in reality to back it up, I may have considered it to be a false teaching, but rather the evidence is overwhelming that there is a deceptive agenda unfolding. There was a time when I would have shunned this idea, but it's clear to me now.

Regarding the Bible, many doubts regarding its legitimacy seem to come from the false assumption that the Heavenly Father doesn't have the power to create a body of text that is in accord with his will and that He is unable or unwilling to exert influence in the minds and hearts of man. However, as this is a thread about Swedenborg, this part of the conversation may be verging off-topic, although being that Swedenborg himself was Christian, it was interesting to note that a lot of what he was doing was actually against his religion. But even he said that one should not trust what he had said regarding his communications with spirits and that great caution should be headed for one dabbling in such things, so I believe he may have understood the dangers.

Lights of Love wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 9:01am:


If you wish to debate the Bible, please make another thread. Thanks.

I've only brought up the Bible in the way it relates to Swedenborg, his work and the practices he was involved with. I'd like to stay on topic, so again, if you care to discuss the Bible with me, I'll engage in another thread.

I Am Dude wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 11:19am:


That is an oxymoron Swedenborg did nothing or wrote nothing that could be connected in truth to the bible, He was  a delusional liar of cosmic proportions

Hi Kathy-

Thanks for the post on ES. I was especially struck by the following:

"ES states that what corresponds to time is a change of state, and that the "time" of heaven is the "always now" time of the inner state.  He said, "I was raised into the sphere of heaven and therefore into the perception of eternity shared by angels.  This shed light for me on the fact that we ought not to think about eternity in temporal terms but in terms of state, and that when we do, we can grasp what 'from eternity' entails, which was actually done for me."

In one of Michael Newton's books, his client(s) while under deep hypnosis, described time in much the same way. Also the definition of progress was based on how our own inner state becomes more enlightened.

The experience of Howard Storm corroborates what ES said. We see or experience the kind of entities/environment that correspond to our own inner state. Ayk, Storm understood the meaning and lesson of his horrific experience to the point that he turned his life around, becoming a minister.

Without question ES did more exploration of the afterlife than anyone else. He deserves to be studied. I would never describe him as having malevolent motives. As to the things he wrote about beings on Venus and Mars, at least IMO, represents the deception about which he warned. I admit, however, that he did not qualify those reports and represented them as genuine. I don't understand his putting forth those things as true.

R

      Swedenborg is not an area or subject I know much about, which is why I haven't commented too much on this thread.  I am fairly versed regarding the Bible though.  I've found that the Bible has different layers to it.  Some of it literal history with moral lesson.  Some of it is metaphorical and allegorical. Some of it is a mix. 

  Without attuning to the various different minds whom were involved in writing same, or being very attuned to expanded guidance and being very intuitive, it's hard to know which is which at times.  Some things though, do seem pretty obvious. For example, the Universe/creation being created on the 6th day, should not be taken literal.  Day could mean period or cycle, and the whole 7 concept might relate to numerology and the archetypal structure or cyclic nature underlying creation.  Or, it could just being the writer trying to impress the reader with the awesomeness of the Creator.  Or, it could be both at the same time.   

  Also, context. The OT part of the Bible was written at periods of human history that were particularly brutal and slow vibratory in nature.  The various commandments and truths uttered then may have had some practical applicability then, but not necessarily now or some much earlier, more fast vibratory cycle. Often times, people barely acted beyond animals, and there was all kinds of issues and imbalances going on.  These people literally needed to whacked up side the head with a 2X4 as far as guidance went.  If guidance had taken the form of some kind of soft, feminine, non visible figure--one, it wouldn't have been perceived very well, and two--the huge majority of people would have ignored it anyways.  No, it had to be more loud and in people's faces then. 

  As Cayce's guidance often said, "truth is a growing thing". 

  It seems that Swedenborg didn't fully get the relativity of this, and was too attached to the Bible as a source of TRUTH in some kind of final, or ultimate sense.  Well, this is somewhat true in the sense that TRUTH in the final and ultimate sense came in the personhood and lifetime of Yeshua.  And what did he teach over and over and over again?  Love for all, universally and unconditionally. 

  In this teaching is all truth contained, for if one can attune to that precept, that ideal, then all else, all other wisdom, will be given to a person. 

  As regards Swedenborg's words and teachings about life and people on other planets, in some ways, it sounds like what Cayce's guidance talked about in relation to astrology and other life in this system.  The difference being is that Cayce's guidance didn't say that this other life in our solar system was physical, but that it was nonphysical or in different other levels of consciousness. 

  This IS true, and Swedenborg was sensing/perceiving this truth, but garbling it some with overly physical metaphors and overlaying.   Each Planet in our Solar system represents a particular dimension in a system of consciousness that the Earth is just one part of.  The Earth obviously is the physical level, which has other meanings beyond what we perceive as physicality.  It's hard for humans to get beyond physical thinking, even when we are open minded to other dimensions and the nonphysical.  For example, earlier, Matthew referred to the physical as "the real world" in contrast with the nonphysical. 

  That's interesting, because individuals in very expanded dimensions, consider this dimension in many ways to be the least "real" in a consciousness sense.  Yet, it's fairly typical of the huge majority of human's thinking. 

  Anyways, in this system of consciousness, that the physical Solar system represents, the Earth represents one of the slowest vibratory levels.  Saturn is even more slow vibratory and represents the temporal "hells" that Bruce and others have talked about.  Such states of such lack of Love can eventually lead to dissolution of the Soul's identity, which is why Cayce's guidance connected Saturn to the destruction of an individual. 

   On the other hand, Jupiter and the Sun represent very, very expanded and spiritualized states of consciousness within THIS system of consciousness.  The individuals focused within these levels, are much, much more consciously in touch with their Disk/Expanded selves.  They are also very service and more universally love oriented. 

  In between these extremes or polar opposites are various other levels, of which other Planets such as Venus, Mars, Mercury, Moon, Uranus, etc represent and correspond to in a physical sense. 

  Interestingly, I've found in my study of astrology as it relates to the larger consciousness system, that the different Planets (aka the different consciousness levels of our system or the "afterlife focuses") also have a correlation with different colors and the different endocrine glands.  This is something that Cayce's guidance also touched upon, but didn't go into a lot of depth about. 

  But since it's part of a whole or One system, these kind of interrelationships and reflections can and do happen.   What we experience as the physical, is a mix of all the above.  From Saturn (slowest vibratory) to Sun (fastest vibratory).  These and all that is in between can be experienced and attuned to here in the physical, and humans themselves are a conglomerate mix of various different levels and influences. 

Here, we have linear cause and effect (karma), to help us try to grow more.  So that eventually, we get to the Solar level (which is very Love attuned), and then can graduate OUT of this system to more expanded systems.  Cayce's guidance called the Star Arcturus the "door" or "center" out of this system into more expanded systems. (Cayce's guidance indicated that sometimes a Soul or Spirit does this and then comes back for service reasons rather than for the lessons of this system).

  Not the literal, physical Star we see in the night sky, but the nonphysical or consciousness counterpart.  For everything natural that we perceive in the physical, has it's original reflection or source in the nonphysical/consciousness. 

   So yes, in a manner of allegorical speaking, Swedenborg was correct about other life in the Solar system, he just overly physicalized and somewhat misinterpreted it. People are still doing this some with Cayce's guidance about other life in this Solar system.  When asked if there was any current physical life on the other Planets in our solar system (as in originating from there), this source said "no", but they did talk about the consciousness or nonphysical aspect of this system. 

  As to communicating with Spirits etc, the Bible is not black and white on this issue.  I agree with Matthew that it was/is a bit more relative.  Mainly, the Bible wanted people to focus on God and the bigger picture and not get too hung up on one's dead granny or the like.  The reason is, is because people don't necessarily become all wise and all loving just because they've died. And yes, there is potential deception that can occur in communicating with the nonphysical. 

  No, the Bible seems to emphasize getting guidance from God and those fully attuned to God as a preferable method.  Which is something that Cayce's guidance outlined time and time again as well.  Cayce's guidance said when praying and meditating, we should always seek the highest and most expanded there is, aka the Creator and those individuals fully one with God. 

  In this, is much pragmatism.  They did say that IF God and these God beings send a messenger or guide of some sort, that was ok because it was divinely orchestrated, but they said do not seek communication and communion with any regular guide in and of themselves.

    Neither Cayce's guidance nor the Bible said flat out that you shouldn't be seeking guidance at all, but rather, they both put the emphasis on getting guidance from God and those individuals most intune with God--aka the beings I tend to refer to as the "Co-Creators". 

  As regards Yeshua Vince, do not put him over much on a pedestal--he does not want that. What he achieved, other humans can as well.  Yes, it's true that his Spirit/Disk is the Co-Creator of the original patterns within this Universe, yes it's true that he came to Earth direct from the core of Source, but what he is, we are too and can become, and that's what he wants. 

   I had a dream awhile back, towards the end of a 7 day fast, where the female self from Bob Monroe's Disk referred to me as Immanuel or Emmanuel.  This was guidance saying that I have the potential to become like Yeshua in the flesh, for that is what he was referred to as well by Isaiah.  That name means/translates to "God among us" or "God is with us".  Isaiah referred to Yeshua as Immanuel because he was saying that this messiah, this person whom was literally named Yeshua, was God in the flesh.  Not that Yeshua is The God, but of same vibration and likeness.  Yeshua himself referred to The God as a separate being, and most often referred to him as his or the Abba (which means Father).   

We ALL have that potential because we all are of and parts of God. For many, it's not even close to being probable to express that within this particular, current human life, but that's not particularly important in and of itself.  Yeshua and those like him (the completed, Co-Creator beings) are our elder siblings.  They are us, but us fully grown up to be like their Parent(s).  It's important to respect and listen to these elder siblings, but also to realize that this is all of our's destiny and heritage. 

  If we overly put Yeshua on an unreachable pedestal, then it will be mighty hard to become fully like him, which is what he, God, and those fully attuned to these want for us. 

  I have to agree with Albert--you have a definite tendency to the extremes. I would be willing to bet that the Planet Uranus is very strong in your astrological chart.  This is not meant as a personal criticism, but just as describing a trait, a tendency and something to be more consciously aware of so that you can grow beyond same. 

Quote:


   The thing is, every Soul connected to a human body misinterprets, falters, distorts to some extent when it comes to perception. 

  This is for two main reasons:  One, because of our connection to and expression through a dense, animal body that is very limited and distorted in various ways, and two, because of our Souls are not fully attuned to Source and PUL. 

    If we can change those two aspects, then can an individual come to perfect or near perfect perception.  We can change those two aspects.  That is a big part of the message and meaning of Yeshua's life and resurrection. 

  He changed those two aspects. And now, he is in the world, but no longer of it.  His perception is so, so, so, so, so more expanded and accurate than ours, until we too change those two aspects. 

  Hence, every source that does not fulfill or align to those two conditions, should be taken with some grains of salt, for they can make easily make mistakes or have distortions in there perceptions. As I've mentioned some here before, the source that I've found that has come closest to purity of perception from a non pure/fully aligned to those two above conditions, is Edgar Cayce's readings (but again, with the caveat that even this source contains some distortion). 

  I challenge folks to read Sidney Kirkpatrick's biography of him and not be blown away by his life and the service he was involved in.  It is the most comprehensive, most accurate, and balanced biography on Cayce and his work (and there are many biographies out there on Cayce).

      

Vincent,

Interesting that your post is relevant to the point I was trying to make and provides one more reason, and that is interpretation.  You apparently interpreted that I said the bible is "unreliable" meaning that it cannot be trusted, or at least that's what unreliable means according to Webster.  I did not say that.  I said it cannot be taken "line for line in a literal manner" meaning that by doing so there exists a risk of inaccuracy.  There's a big difference in implication between your interpretation of what I said and what I actually said.  Taking a single statement out of context can distort the original meaning.  With the bible one can make it say anything they want it to say by doing that.  Don, or any biblical scholar or theologian would likely say the same thing I said for all of the reasons I mentioned, and perhaps for even more reasons.  I didn't just make it up.  It's factual according to those that do the difficult work of translation.  This is true no matter what textual content is being translated, including ES, though his writings were translated from Latin, and only a couple hundred years ago, not thousands as in the original biblical texts, most of which are missing for the Old Testament.

Getting back to your topic:
Throughout ES's writings I've found that he continually deals with inner states of consciousness, which include both the emotional and intellect as companions, rather than opposites, and how these states only become true or real when they are experienced through actions that reflect them.  What he describes are the inner and outer states of the human being.  He believed the spiritual is the inner as well as the ultimate aspect of the psychological.  To enter the spiritual world, or to be in spirit, ES indicates that one needs to go inward to the roots of human experience because the innermost being is the spiritual realm.  He also felt that it is possible to enter the spiritual realm through inner exploration.  This inner psychological/spiritual to ES is life itself.

To even begin to understand the spiritual realms the first concept ES realized was that the whole feeling side of him had to be awakened and take a position that was superior to his intellect.  As a scientist he operated primarily on his intellect and initially thought his non-physical contacts were to help him in his scientific work.  Eventually he recognized that feeling becomes more rational when intellect becomes more capable of feeling.  This is where consciousness combines these seemingly opposites.  There's more, a whole story actually, of ES's initial journey into the spiritual realms that I won't go into.  Most of the accounts of his story can be found in the "Dream Diary" which covers his personal analysis fairly well.  Suffice it to say he was humbled realizing his own ignorance and unworthiness in relationship to the forces he encountered, and as his sense of this, along with a childlike understanding, deepened as he went further and further within.  It was this attitude that enabled him to move faster and farther in the non-physical realm.

Of course his own beliefs and understanding and that of his culture during that time period clearly comes through his writings.  I could outline some of those and the variances in translation, but I suspect you wouldn't be interested and I'd be wasting my time.   However, I will say that ES's theological writings are not all that apparent because he was continually speaking of the inner states of man, so if you are looking for comparisons between the writings of ES and Christianity you may miss a lot of the richness ES offers his readers.  Personally, I did not find them to be non-biblical taken as a whole.  If there is one main theme to his writings, it is that one's most inner love is the force that conditions all aspects of mind and actions, and thus determines one's state of consciousness for better or worse.

Swedenborg is more famous for his "fabrications" that he is for his "imaginary" potentially truthful revelations.

Lights of Love wrote on Apr 17^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:


Why study the life and works of a pathological liar, beats me? You cannot drink from a glass of the purest water, that has one time drop of cyanide in it, much less than from a glass of water that is half filled up to the brim of the purest deadly cyanide poison.

His "stupid stories" would not make it only the pages of the most nonsensical pulp magazine of outrageous science fiction, rubbish of our contemporary age.

That is my opinion about this person.

Nonsense is nonsense no matter who states it, nonsense remains nonsense.

If Albert Einstein had said on the blazing hot planet Mercury there were little gnome like beings controlling the universe, he might have been locked up into an institution for the crazy by the big men in white clothing.

I do not doubt that ES was smart and yes smart enough to think about such outlandish foolish nonsensical rubbish way back then.

I will now finally leave the thread in its desperate effort of making sense out of nonsense?

  I should add as far as auras go, some of us do occasionally attune to and radiate the Golden and White Light, but it's usually temporary, and if we are meditating, praying, doing service work, a moment of unusual selfless kindness to another, in a spiritually focused group, laughing our butts off in a healthy, non mean to others way, etc

  I've yet to meet a person in this particular life, that only ever has a pure, radiant, brilliant, White Light aura all the time. Yet, that pure, constant attunement to the consciousness of PUL, which the pure White Light symbolizes/reflects, is the goal of most of our Souls, whether unconsciously or consciously.  Most of us come here to this difficult dimension (physical Earth) to try to grow more towards that.

Albert, it would only be wrong and possibly dangerous if the friend is not who you think it is. Personally I would err on the side of caution.

R

rondele wrote on Apr 17^th, 2017 at 7:39pm:


Kathy, I forgot to ask you if ES ever indicated directly or indirectly a belief in reincarnation based on his explorations.

R

I believe that in the afterlife it is strictly "birds of a feather flock together"

The means of communication in the afterlife is mind to mind in pictures, or in words also by means of telepathy.

Imagine having the filthy hideous minds of the most depraved filling your minds with its unimaginable horror.

Thus our afterlife companions are/will be people just like or very close to us. with the filth of the depraved filtered out by some method instituted by God to avoid pollution between souls.

That is my two-cent peace/

Quote:


  Yes, mostly agree on that. Much of it is about natural Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like. 

  But picture the Earth-Solar Consciousness system of interconnected dimensions like a color wheel of sorts. Each specific color is like a specific, major dimension.  Yet, the colors all blend into one another and are part of a Whole system.  And what makes the difference between red and yellow perception wise? 

The rate of vibration. The 7 main dimensions of the Earth-Solar Consciousness system are much like this as well.  The lower, hellish areas of the Afterlife are like the red part of the color wheel spectrum, and the expanded dimensions where you find the helpers/guides/retriever types are like the blue and faster vibratory colors beyond blue, part of the color wheel spectrum. 

  It is indeed a very apt analogy because there are actual consciousness correspondences between these different consciousnesses/dimensional states and the physical colors we perceive. 

  And each one of these major dimensions/consciousness states that Souls get attracted to post Earth life, also have a correspondence not only with a specific color range, but also with a specific Planet.

  If for example, you ever meet a person that consistently radiates a lot of Golden Light frequency in their aura, then chances are, they came into the physical 3rd Earth dimension from the nonphysical dimension that corresponds to the Sun aka the most expanded, fastest vibratory dimension connected to this particular consciousness system that the physical earth is the hub of. 

  Chances are also that this individual has the symbol of the Sun also very strong in their astrological chart.  A real life example of this is the Dali Lama.  The Dali Lama radiates a lot of Golden, and golden yellow frequencies in his aura.   Interestingly, in his astrological chart, he also has the Sun very strong--it's his single most highlighted symbol. Another real life example is a friend of mine here.

    It's well to remember that as wise as we become, or think we are, there are always more expanded views to be had.  I've been studying and researching all these interrelating correspondences for some two decades now.

  I'm not basing this on idle beliefs and cavalier hypotheses.  Swedenborg was picking up on some of these truths, but again, overlaying too much physical metaphor onto them.  For example, "Jupitarians" aka Souls focused in a certain, expanded nonphysical dimension (of which we can connect the color of purple/violet to) don't literally stoop over or ride small but powerful horses.  That's call interpreter interference and material mind overlay. 

  Jupiterian Souls are in actuality long time, more advanced helper/retreiver types. They've been around the block, and are getting close to graduation out of this system.  Their next stop is the Solar dimension and then out of this system to phase to more expanded systems.  When Souls from this dimension incarnate into the Earth, often they have purple or violet colors strong and primary in their aura. Other things also commonly go along with such Souls, such as an unusual degree of sincerity and honesty, a innate broad mindedness and tolerance, a sense of inner power, often a lot of vitality, often deal with groups, even large groups or amounts of people, often very service oriented, often have strong spiritual and/or philosophical leanings, often psychic beyond the norm, etc. 

   And if they come into the Earth direct from this dimension, then the Planet Jupiter as a symbol, will be the strongest/most highlighted in their astrological chart. 

  Again, I know very few people and sources talk about these things and it seems quite foreign to people's thinking, but if you're curious about whether or not these interconnections are true, then one can pray and meditate about it. 

  I should add that the Sun was very strong in Dr. King's chart as well.  Perhaps even stronger than Jupiter, so he actually may have phased into this dimension from the nonphysical dimension that the Sun represents. 

The Sun is very close to his MC (also referred to as the Mid-Heaven, which in most systems is also the start of the 10th House).  His Sun is also in the active, Cardinal Sign of Capricorn which lends it some strength as well, since there is a loose connection between the archetypes of the Angular Houses (most sensitive areas of a chart) and the concept of Cardinal Signs. 

   In astrology the Ascendant degree, and the MC degree are usually the two most sensitive areas of a chart, and any Planets near these areas, especially if "conjunct" (within a certain distance degree wise), are often quite prominent and highlighted.  It's interesting that Dr. King had the two fastest vibratory/most expanded symbols and Planets strongest in his chart. 

  While he had his lacks and things to work on, he was a true (and rarely so) Christian in many deep respects.  Certainly his Soul was unusually fast vibratory/expanded, just as a deeper look into his astrological chart and it's connection to the nonphysical dimensions, indicates plainly.

   Alan, would you care to elaborate about exactly is woo woo nonsense in what I said?  I don't mean that Dr. King's Soul literally came from the physical planet Jupiter to the physical Earth.  Rather that the Afterlife set of nonphysical dimensions that the Earth is connected to--one of these dimensions--one of the more expanded, service, and love oriented ones, has a correspondence to Jupiter in a symbolic manner. 

   Or in another sense, each of the Planets that we physically perceive in our Solar system has an inner, nonphysical consciousness counterpart, or "Soul" if you will (different than our Souls), and the Earth connected afterlife system of nonphysical dimensions is directly related to the nonphysical, consciousness counterparts of the Planets in our little system.

   I'm just trying to put Swedenborg's explorations/info into a more accurate and helpful framework.

  I first came upon this idea in the Edgar Cayce readings.  I've looked at a lot of different outer sources over the years.  I haven't found any other source like the Cayce readings with the amount of verification, the depth, broadness, and sheer vastness of info. Some say Monroe's explorer tapes rival some of those aspects of the Cayce readings, but there is only a fraction of these that's available to the public.

  Cayce's work is in a league of it's own. Because of how much verification is found in this work, chances are, there is something to what they are talking about.  That's just speaking in a general, impersonal sense and not including the two decades of my personal research into the interconnections between astrology, the afterlife, the colors (particularly in relation to auras), the endocrine glands, and consciousness growth or retrogression.

   After doing X amount of astrological charts for people, and correctly "guessing" the majority of people's favorite colors based primarily on their charts--especially their strongest planetary symbols, you kind of start to build trust in the reality of these connections.  How and why could I guess people's favorite colors?  Because not only does Like attract, beget, and resonate with Like, but also Like tends to like Like on the deeper levels.  In other words, a person's primary aura colors tends to be also their favorite colors too. 

  If for example, blue is the most consistently primary color in your aura, on the more slowly changing "mental" level of same, then chances are very high that you are going to like blue a lot. We do have freewill to change and some of us exercise that will and do change some though. Or in other words, a person such as myself using this method could never have 100% accuracy rate because of freewill.   

  Perhaps it's not woo woo nonsense, but just something that you don't yet perceive or understand? 

Also, while I don't mind people disagreeing with or debating what I say, perceive, and believe--on a personal note, there are more intelligent and kinder ways of doing that.  To say in all caps what you said, was neither intelligent (didn't address any logic or lack of logic), nor kind in any sense.

  Regarding the NT and John more specifically--translation issues might be why there are some common misunderstandings. 

There is no literal word "God" in either the OT or the NT, but there are various different names and titles for the Creator.  Interestingly, some of the older Hebrew words for same, are innately plural--such as Elohim (translates as "Mighty Ones" among other things). 

  See the following link to all the various different names and titles that over simplistically get translated only to God singular in most English translations:
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-definition-god-titles.htm

  When I read John, I get the sense that John or whomever penned same, was talking about how Yeshua's Spirit was a Co-Creator with The original Creator in the very beginning, before this Universe was created.

    I think this is true for various reasons, both inner and outer sources and reasons.  Which is why Yeshua himself, almost always made a distinction between himself and the Abba ("Father" aka the active, masculine side of the Creator).  The closest he ever comes to idenitfying himself with The God, is when he talks about his disciples having seen him and his works, they were seeing the Creator.  But, that could be understood in a more metaphysical and metaphorical sense of Yeshua was so attuned to the Creative Force within, that he was like the expression of the personality of God within the material world.  Something very hard to achieve, and humans have had a hard time achieving historically except for a few cycles here and there over many hundreds of thousands of years.   

   I think Yeshua indicated pretty plainly that all Souls, all children of God have this same potential.  In a debate with the Pharisees, he uses their own scripture against them when they accuse him of blasphemy for associating himself with God overmuch.  John 10:34 says, "Yeshua said to them, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I have said, “You are gods”'?”

  He also says that if we live and choose like him, we can become like him and do similar works and even greater. 

    We are not currently active, true Co-Creators and full companions with Source because we have put barriers (mainly selfishness, fear, and distorted beliefs) between ourselves and our Source.  Choosing and attuning to Love, breaks down those barriers, and this is exactly the entire message of Yeshua's life, example, teachings, death and resurrection.  That pure Love is the way back to Source. 

  People can say all day, "but we never left", which is a nice sounding and technically true platitude, but until they are like Yeshua and over come death, over come physics, over come aging, live completely selflessly for others and the Whole, radiate only the White Light, etc then it remains naught but an over simplified, lop sided/imbalanced platitude that certainly strokes the ego part of us, but in and of itself doesn't get us very far without the all important livingness part of it. 

  We have the extremes in the earth.  On one hand, you have many fundamentalist Christians that overly put Yeshua on an unreachable pedestal and make him too special and untouchable.  Then at the other end of the extreme, you have more New Agey folks that are too cavalier about how we never left, and make it all sound so easy and automatic when not a single one of them is at Yeshua's state of consciousness of being a full, fully conscious Co-Creator and companion with Source. 

  Somewhere near the middle of the extremes, somewhere in the blend of opposites, is that elusive thing called truth.   

   

Dude:

I do not believe that God would want Demons to predicate what we do or do not do.  I believe God is wise enough to understand that if we use our discrimination and have good intentions,  we can communicate with spirits without being fooled. It is important to remember that unfriendly spirits can try to mess with us even when we don't seek to communicate with spirits; therefore, discrimination and the wise utilization of our free will is always required.

Just as I won't allow words that supposedly come from Moses lead me to doing animal sacrifices, I won't let such words determine whether or not I communicate with spirits.

It seems as if you glossed over what I said about the Bible being inconsistent about who Jesus is.

Everything that exists does so within God's being. Therefore, if we want to open ourselves up to his love and presence as much as we can, we need to be willing to become aware of everything that exists within it, including the negative manifestations. I say this with the understanding that since God is the source of everything (there is no other source), even negativity comes from his being. (After some of his creations use their small portion to creative in a negative way.)

This morning as I meditated and experienced divine love and peace,  some negativity was presented to me. It didn't matter, because I was too in touch with the love and peace that comes from God to be troubled by such negativity. One of the reasons I am able to have such an experience, is because rather than avoid demons and other forms of negativity, I found a way to be transcendent. This ability exists within all of us. I do not believe Jesus would be opposed to us finding it. If faith can move mountains, will then perhaps our faith in God's grace and our own divinity can make it so we aren't misled by demons and such as long as we use our freewill wisely.

I would not trouble myself with saying the above at a fundamentalist Christian forum, because I figure the way of thinking of such forum members would be too circular and limited to consider what I say.  Anything I said that didn't go along with "their" rigid interpretation of the Bible would be considered demonic.

An addition to my last post, if a person with good intentions prays to God and Jesus and receives a response, such a person shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction and assume that a demon responded. It would be better if he (or she) used his discrimination and tried to find out if God or Jesus responded to his prayer with a message.

What a shame it would be if God, Jesus and other beings of love and light weren't allowed to communicate with us, because Satan and his demons make it so "NO PERSON WHAT SO EVER" is allowed to communicate with any spirit being at all.

What if a person was having difficulty discriminating whether or not ACIM is a valid source of information? I had     some trouble doing so, on more than one occasion I prayed to God and Christ and asked them if ACIM comes from Jesus, and on each occasion was in some way told "No." Afterwards, after obtaining some freedom of mind, I discriminated ACIM with a clearer eye, and saw how it is misleading in more than one way.

Regarding OBEs, all of my OBEs and lucid dreams have served a positive purpose.

Oh my, I opened the link as to why animal sacrifices are done, and stopped opening links after that.

Dude, sorry, but if things have gotten to the point where you believe that animal sacrifice business, I do not believe it is possible to have a reasonable conversation with you at this time, so I will stop trying to have one.

Sorry for being so blunt, I just don't know if there is anything I can say that will make a difference. Belief systems can be such a horrendous thing. Logic needs the assistance of heart-based wisdom in order to be functional and accurate.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Apr 26^th, 2017 at 5:34pm:


   While the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ is not true scripture, and does contain some errors, it still is a very interesting work.  In this book, it covers some of the missing years of Yeshua. There is a part in there when a young, 12 or 13 year old Yeshua is brought to Jerusalem for the first time and comes upon the outer part of the Temple where they were selling animals to be killed in sacrifice. 

   When Yeshua hears the tortured cries of the animals being killed and burned for sacrifice, he becomes very, very upset and asks why this is happening to these innocent animals, and he says that his Father God does not like, want, nor condone this kind of sacrifice. He becomes quite adamant about this point, and one of the Rabbi's that's with him and has seen the wisdom of young Yeshua, has his heart opened up and weeps with him. 

   Course, a fundamentalist will automatically disregard this account and this book because it's not "Holy Scripture" and yet in this account, I think it speaks far more to truth than does some official scripture.  Yeshua was clearly a person whom was very attuned to empathy and conscious Oneness.  He knew on a deep, knowing level, that this suffering that humans were putting animals through was needless and even worse, since it was being done in the name of "God".  Yes, surely God enjoys the extreme suffering of animals. Especially when doves were burned alive, and bulls, lambs, etc had their throats cut to bleed out.

  Yeah, maybe it was being done in the name of Reptilian "gods", but not the original Creator. The NT, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Edgar Cayce readings all indicate that very lacking in Light forces focused on Moses and tried to influence him.  Perhaps at times they did, though Michael fought same? 

I have to say, I looked at some of the links, Dude. I got to the animal sacrifice links while clicking on your suggestions randomly. I was so repulsed by the content that I thought, oh, that's why I don't read the Bible. Then, I saw all the content regarding Jesus being the sacrifice for our sins and I realized that it was equally repulsive to me for the simple reason that any God that required or approved of such a thing follows no logic I can comprehend. But, that's just me.

Well I appreciate your comments and advice, although again, there was a time when I was saying the same exact things to Christians. I had many debates with Christian friends and family in which I was on your side of the argument. I haven't lost anything since then, I've gained something. I think it's a mistake to assume I am coming from a place of lacking reason, as I have not even begun to express my beliefs and the evidence which supports my reasoning. Of course, I'm not here for that, and I need to work on controlling my ego's desire to justify and prove myself, so thank you guys for helping me in that regard. I'm here to discuss ideas that come to mind as I'm reading ES's book, so I'll check in for the next one when it comes up. Peace!

  During Howard Storm's NDE, he met and communicated with Yeshua and other Co-Creaotrs (he called them "Angels").  He asked them what was the best religion, expecting them to say Christianity. 

  He was surprised when they told him, the one that brings a person closest to God.

  My intuitive sense from having communicated with Yeshua during meditation and dreams, is that he is not particularly happy with how Christianity and many Christians has become.

Dude:

I read what you just said and take your word for it.

Both Justin and I are very interested in what Jesus had/has to say. So much so that we reach out to him and ask him for his guidance.

Before I meditate I always say "To God, Christ and the other beings of love and light that help me and that are close to me." I say the later words because I believe that there are a lot beings that live according to God's love and will. I want to make certain that I show love, respect and gratitude to any being that is assigned to help me. If a being other than God and Christ help me, I figure they do so with divine approval.

The only being that has identified himself to me by name has been Christ. On some occasions he has referred to himself as Christ, and sometimes as Jesus. Most of the time he doesn't identify himself. Perhaps it is enough for me to have faith in what I reach out to, and the divine presence I feel.  I don't mean to say that unfriendly beings never try to contact me. There have been occasions when they tried, so I always have to use my discrimination.

Regarding the Bible, I believe it can be a source of inspiration and a way to obtain some historical knowledge. But because I am committed to living according to God's will, and don't like to see either he or Jesus misrepresented, I take care when I read a book that was written, selected and translated by men. If I can be wrong at times despite God's will, then perhaps the men who put the Bible together can also be wrong at times. It seems to me that the NT Gospels are more reflective of what is true than the Old Testament.

Regarding the issue of whether or not Jesus is God, I don't know the answer to this question. I asked this question, and even though I have received other answers for other questions, I never received a definite answer to this question. It could be that I didn't receive a definite answer because Jesus isn't concerned about this. Going by my experiences with him, even though he feels quite holy, he is also very humble, sensible, and down to earth. I doubt that he is concerned about whether or not people view him as God. He understands quite clearly why people believe in different ways, and loves all people dearly regardless of their interpretations of what is true.

Consider the below from Howard Storm's "My Descent Into Death." During his NDE Jesus took Howard on a tour and showed him the below (from page 42).

"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards referred to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up, Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys,  I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

The above way of viewing things is in stark contrast to what some born again Christians contend, when they state that you better accept Jesus as your savior or you will go to hell for all of eternity. I believe they insult God and Jesus when they associate them with such beliefs. Certainly God and Jesus understand why people believe as they do, and don't judge them for not believing in a supposed "correct" way. I wonder how many people are turned off by the name "Jesus" because they don't like the "you better believe or else" talk. I believe it is a shame that some people associate Jesus' name with something that turns them off.

ES provides some of the most astounding verifications of postmortem survival ever; and yet, when he is deluded, that delusion can be serious.  I'm trying to understand the disconnect.  What strikes me about my life of paranormal experiences are the phases I go through.  At times, I feel "in the groove" and not only have one experience after another, but also synchronistically encounter others who have had powerful experiences which have prompted a burning quest.  Apparently, there are subtle changes in my mindset that shift me in and out of "the groove," and I need to get a better handle on this.

As for Christian/ mystical experiences, I have learned one crucial lesson over the years: the most powerful, life-transforming experiences are usually counterfeited in a deceptive way (e. g. authentic speaking in tongues).  Various explanations suggest themselves for this problem.  Dark forces may seek to undermine life-changing experiences that help us make decisive progress towards PUL and a more intimate connection with God.  But often, there is an easier, lazier path to such experiences fueled by wishful thinking that leads to a counterfeit.  In my experience, the truly magical experiences tend to be more rare and result from a long, often frustrating quest mined with roadblocks and failures.  I now recognize that learning how to "pray in the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:18) has been a key element to my best and most helpful paranormal experiences.  But I drift in and out of my willingness to pay the price to pray in this way because it takes a lot of time and self-discipline.   

Dude, I'd be interested in the key factors of your spiritual evolution.  Why don't you start threads under the section "Religions and Their Beliefs" on your spiritual journey and on your burning questions about the Bible, Christianity, and spiritual experiences.  I in turn will start threads there that respond to issues that I think might enhance your journey.

Albert

The idea that belief in Yeshua is the only ticket to eternal salvation may indeed be a difficult pill to swallow. The Catholic church believes there may be salvation for those who do not come to know Him through no fault of their own, although I'm not totally convinced in their authority or interpretations. But I think our logic is probably on a lower level than that of God's and thus such things may be impossible to truly comprehend.

Justin

I don't recall defending animal sacrifice. In fact, it was one of the most difficult aspects of the Bible to accept. I came to see it in a way that could make sense, however, with the help of those wiser and more knowledgeable than myself.

I don't recall saying questions aren't allowed. I've had numerous questions, and still have many. If one believes in God's power to affect this world in any way He sees fit, then the idea that he inspired the writing of scripture in a such a way as to reflect his will and to not allow major distortions that would alter his original Word isn't so far fetched.

Regarding your ideas about Jesus and the old testament, please read this for a better understanding: http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesusignorelaw.php You'll see he was speaking out against tradition of men rather than the Word of God. Read this to see more of how Jesus supported the OT: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/on-the-infallibility-of-scripture/

Some things in the OT are pretty brutal, but I believe that they may have been appropriate given the context of their society and God's plan for mankind. I imagine that the entire world would have been entirely corrupted in a relatively short period of time without such strict laws.

I'm currently reading both the OT and the NT, almost finished 2Chronicles and Romans. I'm also listening to lectures and debates regarding various topics discussed in the Bible to improve my understanding. I'm sure my views will evolve over time as I learn and pray more, so I think we can all just relax a bit.

Earlier in this thread I said I was working on a literal analysis of the Bible without adding anything to it. I misspoke when I used the word literal. I should have instead said "literary." There are various literary styles throughout the Bible, some being intended to be taken literally, others metaphorically, etc. For example, I don't think Jesus was saying that he was actually bread in John 6:35, but I do take it literally that he said that.

I was actually comparing my approach to the Bible with ES's, who essentially assigned a deeper spiritual meaning to even the most mundane verses, probably based on his insights from his mystical experiences. My point was that I was trying not to add my own ideas into the mix but rather take it for what it is, keeping in mind the various literary styles of course.

Don, what is your view of ES's interpretations of the Bible?