I've only brought up the Bible in the way it relates to Swedenborg, his work and the practices he was involved with. I'd like to stay on topic, so again, if you care to discuss the Bible with me, I'll engage in another thread.

I Am Dude wrote on Apr 15^th, 2017 at 11:19am:


That is an oxymoron Swedenborg did nothing or wrote nothing that could be connected in truth to the bible, He was  a delusional liar of cosmic proportions

Hi Kathy-

Thanks for the post on ES. I was especially struck by the following:

"ES states that what corresponds to time is a change of state, and that the "time" of heaven is the "always now" time of the inner state.  He said, "I was raised into the sphere of heaven and therefore into the perception of eternity shared by angels.  This shed light for me on the fact that we ought not to think about eternity in temporal terms but in terms of state, and that when we do, we can grasp what 'from eternity' entails, which was actually done for me."

In one of Michael Newton's books, his client(s) while under deep hypnosis, described time in much the same way. Also the definition of progress was based on how our own inner state becomes more enlightened.

The experience of Howard Storm corroborates what ES said. We see or experience the kind of entities/environment that correspond to our own inner state. Ayk, Storm understood the meaning and lesson of his horrific experience to the point that he turned his life around, becoming a minister.

Without question ES did more exploration of the afterlife than anyone else. He deserves to be studied. I would never describe him as having malevolent motives. As to the things he wrote about beings on Venus and Mars, at least IMO, represents the deception about which he warned. I admit, however, that he did not qualify those reports and represented them as genuine. I don't understand his putting forth those things as true.

R

      Swedenborg is not an area or subject I know much about, which is why I haven't commented too much on this thread.  I am fairly versed regarding the Bible though.  I've found that the Bible has different layers to it.  Some of it literal history with moral lesson.  Some of it is metaphorical and allegorical. Some of it is a mix. 

  Without attuning to the various different minds whom were involved in writing same, or being very attuned to expanded guidance and being very intuitive, it's hard to know which is which at times.  Some things though, do seem pretty obvious. For example, the Universe/creation being created on the 6th day, should not be taken literal.  Day could mean period or cycle, and the whole 7 concept might relate to numerology and the archetypal structure or cyclic nature underlying creation.  Or, it could just being the writer trying to impress the reader with the awesomeness of the Creator.  Or, it could be both at the same time.   

  Also, context. The OT part of the Bible was written at periods of human history that were particularly brutal and slow vibratory in nature.  The various commandments and truths uttered then may have had some practical applicability then, but not necessarily now or some much earlier, more fast vibratory cycle. Often times, people barely acted beyond animals, and there was all kinds of issues and imbalances going on.  These people literally needed to whacked up side the head with a 2X4 as far as guidance went.  If guidance had taken the form of some kind of soft, feminine, non visible figure--one, it wouldn't have been perceived very well, and two--the huge majority of people would have ignored it anyways.  No, it had to be more loud and in people's faces then. 

  As Cayce's guidance often said, "truth is a growing thing". 

  It seems that Swedenborg didn't fully get the relativity of this, and was too attached to the Bible as a source of TRUTH in some kind of final, or ultimate sense.  Well, this is somewhat true in the sense that TRUTH in the final and ultimate sense came in the personhood and lifetime of Yeshua.  And what did he teach over and over and over again?  Love for all, universally and unconditionally. 

  In this teaching is all truth contained, for if one can attune to that precept, that ideal, then all else, all other wisdom, will be given to a person. 

  As regards Swedenborg's words and teachings about life and people on other planets, in some ways, it sounds like what Cayce's guidance talked about in relation to astrology and other life in this system.  The difference being is that Cayce's guidance didn't say that this other life in our solar system was physical, but that it was nonphysical or in different other levels of consciousness. 

  This IS true, and Swedenborg was sensing/perceiving this truth, but garbling it some with overly physical metaphors and overlaying.   Each Planet in our Solar system represents a particular dimension in a system of consciousness that the Earth is just one part of.  The Earth obviously is the physical level, which has other meanings beyond what we perceive as physicality.  It's hard for humans to get beyond physical thinking, even when we are open minded to other dimensions and the nonphysical.  For example, earlier, Matthew referred to the physical as "the real world" in contrast with the nonphysical. 

  That's interesting, because individuals in very expanded dimensions, consider this dimension in many ways to be the least "real" in a consciousness sense.  Yet, it's fairly typical of the huge majority of human's thinking. 

  Anyways, in this system of consciousness, that the physical Solar system represents, the Earth represents one of the slowest vibratory levels.  Saturn is even more slow vibratory and represents the temporal "hells" that Bruce and others have talked about.  Such states of such lack of Love can eventually lead to dissolution of the Soul's identity, which is why Cayce's guidance connected Saturn to the destruction of an individual. 

   On the other hand, Jupiter and the Sun represent very, very expanded and spiritualized states of consciousness within THIS system of consciousness.  The individuals focused within these levels, are much, much more consciously in touch with their Disk/Expanded selves.  They are also very service and more universally love oriented. 

  In between these extremes or polar opposites are various other levels, of which other Planets such as Venus, Mars, Mercury, Moon, Uranus, etc represent and correspond to in a physical sense. 

  Interestingly, I've found in my study of astrology as it relates to the larger consciousness system, that the different Planets (aka the different consciousness levels of our system or the "afterlife focuses") also have a correlation with different colors and the different endocrine glands.  This is something that Cayce's guidance also touched upon, but didn't go into a lot of depth about. 

  But since it's part of a whole or One system, these kind of interrelationships and reflections can and do happen.   What we experience as the physical, is a mix of all the above.  From Saturn (slowest vibratory) to Sun (fastest vibratory).  These and all that is in between can be experienced and attuned to here in the physical, and humans themselves are a conglomerate mix of various different levels and influences. 

Here, we have linear cause and effect (karma), to help us try to grow more.  So that eventually, we get to the Solar level (which is very Love attuned), and then can graduate OUT of this system to more expanded systems.  Cayce's guidance called the Star Arcturus the "door" or "center" out of this system into more expanded systems. (Cayce's guidance indicated that sometimes a Soul or Spirit does this and then comes back for service reasons rather than for the lessons of this system).

  Not the literal, physical Star we see in the night sky, but the nonphysical or consciousness counterpart.  For everything natural that we perceive in the physical, has it's original reflection or source in the nonphysical/consciousness. 

   So yes, in a manner of allegorical speaking, Swedenborg was correct about other life in the Solar system, he just overly physicalized and somewhat misinterpreted it. People are still doing this some with Cayce's guidance about other life in this Solar system.  When asked if there was any current physical life on the other Planets in our solar system (as in originating from there), this source said "no", but they did talk about the consciousness or nonphysical aspect of this system. 

  As to communicating with Spirits etc, the Bible is not black and white on this issue.  I agree with Matthew that it was/is a bit more relative.  Mainly, the Bible wanted people to focus on God and the bigger picture and not get too hung up on one's dead granny or the like.  The reason is, is because people don't necessarily become all wise and all loving just because they've died. And yes, there is potential deception that can occur in communicating with the nonphysical. 

  No, the Bible seems to emphasize getting guidance from God and those fully attuned to God as a preferable method.  Which is something that Cayce's guidance outlined time and time again as well.  Cayce's guidance said when praying and meditating, we should always seek the highest and most expanded there is, aka the Creator and those individuals fully one with God. 

  In this, is much pragmatism.  They did say that IF God and these God beings send a messenger or guide of some sort, that was ok because it was divinely orchestrated, but they said do not seek communication and communion with any regular guide in and of themselves.

    Neither Cayce's guidance nor the Bible said flat out that you shouldn't be seeking guidance at all, but rather, they both put the emphasis on getting guidance from God and those individuals most intune with God--aka the beings I tend to refer to as the "Co-Creators". 

  As regards Yeshua Vince, do not put him over much on a pedestal--he does not want that. What he achieved, other humans can as well.  Yes, it's true that his Spirit/Disk is the Co-Creator of the original patterns within this Universe, yes it's true that he came to Earth direct from the core of Source, but what he is, we are too and can become, and that's what he wants. 

   I had a dream awhile back, towards the end of a 7 day fast, where the female self from Bob Monroe's Disk referred to me as Immanuel or Emmanuel.  This was guidance saying that I have the potential to become like Yeshua in the flesh, for that is what he was referred to as well by Isaiah.  That name means/translates to "God among us" or "God is with us".  Isaiah referred to Yeshua as Immanuel because he was saying that this messiah, this person whom was literally named Yeshua, was God in the flesh.  Not that Yeshua is The God, but of same vibration and likeness.  Yeshua himself referred to The God as a separate being, and most often referred to him as his or the Abba (which means Father).   

We ALL have that potential because we all are of and parts of God. For many, it's not even close to being probable to express that within this particular, current human life, but that's not particularly important in and of itself.  Yeshua and those like him (the completed, Co-Creator beings) are our elder siblings.  They are us, but us fully grown up to be like their Parent(s).  It's important to respect and listen to these elder siblings, but also to realize that this is all of our's destiny and heritage. 

  If we overly put Yeshua on an unreachable pedestal, then it will be mighty hard to become fully like him, which is what he, God, and those fully attuned to these want for us. 

  I have to agree with Albert--you have a definite tendency to the extremes. I would be willing to bet that the Planet Uranus is very strong in your astrological chart.  This is not meant as a personal criticism, but just as describing a trait, a tendency and something to be more consciously aware of so that you can grow beyond same. 

Quote:


   The thing is, every Soul connected to a human body misinterprets, falters, distorts to some extent when it comes to perception. 

  This is for two main reasons:  One, because of our connection to and expression through a dense, animal body that is very limited and distorted in various ways, and two, because of our Souls are not fully attuned to Source and PUL. 

    If we can change those two aspects, then can an individual come to perfect or near perfect perception.  We can change those two aspects.  That is a big part of the message and meaning of Yeshua's life and resurrection. 

  He changed those two aspects. And now, he is in the world, but no longer of it.  His perception is so, so, so, so, so more expanded and accurate than ours, until we too change those two aspects. 

  Hence, every source that does not fulfill or align to those two conditions, should be taken with some grains of salt, for they can make easily make mistakes or have distortions in there perceptions. As I've mentioned some here before, the source that I've found that has come closest to purity of perception from a non pure/fully aligned to those two above conditions, is Edgar Cayce's readings (but again, with the caveat that even this source contains some distortion). 

  I challenge folks to read Sidney Kirkpatrick's biography of him and not be blown away by his life and the service he was involved in.  It is the most comprehensive, most accurate, and balanced biography on Cayce and his work (and there are many biographies out there on Cayce).

      

Vincent,

Interesting that your post is relevant to the point I was trying to make and provides one more reason, and that is interpretation.  You apparently interpreted that I said the bible is "unreliable" meaning that it cannot be trusted, or at least that's what unreliable means according to Webster.  I did not say that.  I said it cannot be taken "line for line in a literal manner" meaning that by doing so there exists a risk of inaccuracy.  There's a big difference in implication between your interpretation of what I said and what I actually said.  Taking a single statement out of context can distort the original meaning.  With the bible one can make it say anything they want it to say by doing that.  Don, or any biblical scholar or theologian would likely say the same thing I said for all of the reasons I mentioned, and perhaps for even more reasons.  I didn't just make it up.  It's factual according to those that do the difficult work of translation.  This is true no matter what textual content is being translated, including ES, though his writings were translated from Latin, and only a couple hundred years ago, not thousands as in the original biblical texts, most of which are missing for the Old Testament.

Getting back to your topic:
Throughout ES's writings I've found that he continually deals with inner states of consciousness, which include both the emotional and intellect as companions, rather than opposites, and how these states only become true or real when they are experienced through actions that reflect them.  What he describes are the inner and outer states of the human being.  He believed the spiritual is the inner as well as the ultimate aspect of the psychological.  To enter the spiritual world, or to be in spirit, ES indicates that one needs to go inward to the roots of human experience because the innermost being is the spiritual realm.  He also felt that it is possible to enter the spiritual realm through inner exploration.  This inner psychological/spiritual to ES is life itself.

To even begin to understand the spiritual realms the first concept ES realized was that the whole feeling side of him had to be awakened and take a position that was superior to his intellect.  As a scientist he operated primarily on his intellect and initially thought his non-physical contacts were to help him in his scientific work.  Eventually he recognized that feeling becomes more rational when intellect becomes more capable of feeling.  This is where consciousness combines these seemingly opposites.  There's more, a whole story actually, of ES's initial journey into the spiritual realms that I won't go into.  Most of the accounts of his story can be found in the "Dream Diary" which covers his personal analysis fairly well.  Suffice it to say he was humbled realizing his own ignorance and unworthiness in relationship to the forces he encountered, and as his sense of this, along with a childlike understanding, deepened as he went further and further within.  It was this attitude that enabled him to move faster and farther in the non-physical realm.

Of course his own beliefs and understanding and that of his culture during that time period clearly comes through his writings.  I could outline some of those and the variances in translation, but I suspect you wouldn't be interested and I'd be wasting my time.   However, I will say that ES's theological writings are not all that apparent because he was continually speaking of the inner states of man, so if you are looking for comparisons between the writings of ES and Christianity you may miss a lot of the richness ES offers his readers.  Personally, I did not find them to be non-biblical taken as a whole.  If there is one main theme to his writings, it is that one's most inner love is the force that conditions all aspects of mind and actions, and thus determines one's state of consciousness for better or worse.