In what way are you grateful? Just to clarify.

It is reassuring to know that some people are willing to do this kind of work.

Also, I don't believe that people always harm others willingly. They are coerced. They are poor and isolated. There are many reasons.

If you look at every major religion in the world it is clear that some practitioners use them to oppress others. Any idea can be made into a religion and can be used to shame and coerce and oppress others. It is only a different shade of the exact same thing -- a love of power over others.

Interesting replies, but no one has ever visited a terrorists' F25 ? I'm scared of doing it!

<<Regarding the attackers, I see them as victims as well, victims of ignorance who believe wrongly that taking things into their own hands in this way benefits anyone.>>

So if the perpetrators of these despicable acts really are victims, what does that mean in terms of consequences for what they did?  I suppose the terrorists who flew the planes into the WTC, killing over 3,000 people, were also victims?

Following your thinking on this, what do you suppose they are facing in the afterlife?  If they are really victims, I wonder if they escaped any negative consequences for their actions?

R

There's lots of sheer lunacy about these kinds of things. Many years ago a former member of this board proclaimed that before Hitler and those he had murdered were incarnated, they all got together and formulated their plan for the Holocaust.  Hitler, accommodating fellow that he was, agreed to play the role of the bad guy and thousands of other souls happily agreed to be burned in ovens in order to teach the world a needed lesson about, I guess, the horrors of evil.

And then, after they all died, they had a happy reunion in the afterlife, congratulating each other for pulling off their successful drama.  No consequences for Hitler, his storm troopers, Dr. Mengela,  etc etc. because, of course, it was all agreed to by all parties.  Victims?  Perish (bad pun) the thought!

R

Seagull,
   
Just for the record, my comments weren't directed at you. I can see these types of people - Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, et al - as victims in the sense that they are victims of themselves. And because they let their twisted ego or whatever rule over them, they will likely suffer more acutely and longer than their victims until they are willing to examine themselves. Who knows how long that might take? But we all have choices here in this life. We can choose to value and cherish human life or fill our soul with hate and snuff it out. There are many people who have grown up in deplorable circumstances and have become a shining light. Many have grown up with everything and nurtured hatred and evil. The people who do these types of evil acts have, by their own choice, fed the wrong dog.

On the other hand, if it was so easy to choose good over bad, so many people wouldn't choose bad. I believe it is more than a coincidence that people who are exposed to bad influences are much more likely to manifest in a negative way than people who aren't exposed to such influences. So what if a person didn't end up becoming something such as a gang banger if he didn't grow up in a neighborhood where gang activity is prevalent. To deny the effect of negative influences is the same as denying the positive effect of good influences, such as people who set good examples.

If people who do bad things actually had complete access to the wisdom that would enable them choose love based actions, then why do they end up doing bad things? When I feel the inspiration of divine love, this is no small thing. Such inspiration is quite convincing. It helps that I'm not overburdened with negative influences. If I was like some people and found it difficult to tune into divine inspiration and was overburdened by negative influences, chances are that I also would end up manifesting in a negative way.

Every soul needs some time to reach the point where it has the wisdom to know that a love-based approach is the way to go. If they were simply downloaded with such wisdom when they are created, they wouldn't have free will. They would be like a robots. Perhaps God is so wise and loving that rather than creating all of us like a bunch of mindless machines, he provided us with the opportunity to find out for ourselves what approach to existence works best. Certainly this approach has some short comings such as terrorists, but as least way we aren't will lacking robots.

For people who like to think of what Jesus said, if the prodigal son story came from him, what does it mean? If he saw deceased terrorists arriving in a lower realm, would he throw stones at them, or would he see the big picture and out of love find a way to help them find a better way?

Consider what Bruce Moen wrote about light being helpers crying when spirits slipped back into lower realms. Perhaps such helping spirits are in touch with a level of love and wisdom that is really worthwhile.

doodad wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Quote:


Agreed. And isn't it a sign of personal growth that we can take responsibility for our actions even with negative influences? I think we're all saying ultimately the same thing.

doodad wrote on Nov 19^th, 2015 at 1:57pm:


Yes, personal growth does require, among other things, that we own up to the things we do, regardless of "root causes."  I would, however, draw the line when it comes to characterizing terrorists as victims.  To give the impression that there's an equivalency between those who commit acts of atrocities and those who die agonizing deaths at their hands is simply wrong.

R