@a channel: are you suggesting that I conduct a hellish retrieval...just because I can?

Regarding "hellish" scenarios, the only time I have really encountered something close to that is during migraine headaches, which caused me to lie down in a dark room while thrashing around in my bed, smashing my head into a pillow, or whatever. There have been some rather terrifying visions just on the edge of my ability to comprehend, sort of just very dreadful feelings and sort of nauseating images swirling around in a vortex of pain...but that would be the one and only time I've ever experienced such a strange and sort of nightmarish kind of place, outside of a relatively benign dream-nightmare of normal proportions which we all have from time to time. The migraine headache seems to induce a quite intense state of being, quite desperate, actually.

seagull wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:


  Not at all.  Just suggesting being open minded about the larger nature of reality and not form any belief systems based on a lack of experience with something. 

  There have been a lot of higher quality sources that have said similar, that there are some very lacking in light levels of the nonphysical that are very difficult, but need a lot of retrieval work done in.  Based on my intuition, i would have to agree with Dannion Brinkley, these places unfortunately are filling up more.

   Because of the nature of these focuses, one could accurately call them "hells". They're just not eternal, nor is anyone sent there as some kind of punishment.  They are self and collective created, and folks get attracted to them based on their energetics within.  Very direct cases of like attracts and begets like.  The moment that there is any openeness to wanting a different way, to changing, to asking higher forces for help, to seeking the Light in some form or manner, they can be helped and "pulled out" of there so to speak.

  Unlike Nanci and some others, i cannot be cavalier about these places and the amount of suffering that goes on there.  They might be, in the very long term and ultimate sense, "temporary", but that affects me and others sensitive to others no less.  The more you begin to merge with the Oneness, the more you feel and become aware of in the Whole.  The more you are affected by the parts that are suffering.  Others suffering becomes your suffering.

    I've known i've been a retriever for a long time, because when i was little, around age 5 or so, i had thoughts of wanting to retrieve "Satan" (i wasn't immersed in religion during my childhood thankfully, but you hear things here and there). 

   I would like to see every being happy, whole, and healthy.  But if we convince ourselves that places like this don't exist, and we turn a blind eye to the suffering, then how will things get helped there? 

  I kind of see it as analogous to places here on this earth and with humans.  Take your average, younger person raised in upper class who has been sheltered their whole life.  Life materially is easy for them, and they don't much think about the wider, bigger world, just mostly focus on their own little bubble of life. 

  How often do they think on some of the harsh African, or even American ghettos where survival and making it through the day is often really difficult, stressful, and challenging? 

  To that younger, upper class person, that other side of life might as well not exist for the amount of thought and focus they've given to it.  And honestly, they would rather not think about it, because if they did, it would be uncomfortable to really think about it.

   Similarly in a sense, a lot of us who do retrievals are kind of sheltered.  We are often given the easier and least upsetting kinds of retrievals.  But there is much more to reality than that.   

   I watched a movie recently called, "12 Years a Slave" based on a true story.  I didn't fully want to see it, because i knew it would be rather upsetting, and it was.  Some people might see it and say, thank goodness, that's in the past. 

But is it really?   One of the fastest growing, underground, criminal businesses in the world is human trafficking and the sex slave trade. It's in most countries and most certainly even here in the U.S.  And it's not just women that are victims in this.

  This is the shadow side of life, and it's scary, difficult, and it's very easy to want to automatically ignore the reality of it. 

   But part of why it can exist, is because of the above.  Because not enough people are focusing on it and saying enough is enough.  How many people do you ever hear talking about it, even though it's a growing issue? 

  For reasons like the above is why i believe it's so important to not repress and shove under the rug the shadow side of life.  We will never fully transform, heal, and change it if we keep doing this.   Seeing it not there, doesn't make it go away, only for self. 

Hey Heis,
With regard to thought and action, I think there is no conflict there, New Age or not.  I think the situation you bring up is the difference between understanding the concept of PUL/Love on an intellectual level, and actually opening up to PUL, or living it ("walking the walk"). 

If someone believes they are acting as Danison would call a "light being" but is indifferent to the suffering of others, then those people might understand the definitions, but that is as far as it goes.  Action is thought and deep belief manifest in the real world. 

This is not to say that all loving people must join the Peace Corps, or volunteer in soup kitchens to meet the bar of being loving.  Love and kindness can just exist in common situations.  I was in a bank the other day, and a teller was striking up the nicest conversation with an elderly woman who was alone.  She went out of her way to show kindness.  She was not volunteering in a soup kitchen.  But her words and actions exuded love simply because that was her way. 

We all get angry, stressed, etc.  But at an interesting part of Danison's first book, she described her way to take those situations and get in touch with love.  She describes being a sarcastic person, and making biting snipes/jokes at coworkers.  After her NDE, she reports continuing doing this but then, later realizing that was unloving and hurtful.  She then attempted to be mindful or her sarcasm, and noticed immediately after the words came out of her mouth that she had hurt the person.  Next, she started to apologize, immediately for making the snide remark as soon as she said it.  Eventually, weeks later, she would check herself as the snide joke was forming, and realize it would harm the other person, and she would redirect her thought to something else (so that she never made the insulting joke).  Finally, her focus on love made it so that the snide jokes to others were no longer an issue.  That was her way of trying to walk the walk after her NDE. 

I think we all have ways to live in the physical plane and shouldn't knock ourselves for not keeping up with the Joneses.

  David, as i've been saying, there is a necessary and helpful balance to achieve here.  There are extremes to avoid. 

Those who are overly polarized to the Yin within, tend to be over passive about the whole process and say too much, too often, "it's all ok, it's all going to work out in the end." This is truth, but only relatively. Sometimes such attitudes if taken to far, lead to too little service and too much inactivity.   

  Those who are overly polarized to the Yang within, tend to be too impatient and forceful about making the necessary changes.  They want to speed things up overmuch.  They are too active and not enough live and let live.  Again, their's is a relative truth too.

  Then there are the Uranian extremists that swing strongly and suddenly from one extreme to the other. (I say "Uranian" because the Planet Uranus will often be very strong and highlighted in astro charts of people with such strong patterns of extremism).

   It's when you merge the two, and approach life in a balanced manner, that we approach more fully and closer to "The Truth", i think. 

  My message is, let's not over do either one, let's not swing to the extremes.  But there are particular times and places wherein it's better to tune into and apply a little Yin over Yang, and vice versa there are times and places when it's most effective to apply a little Yang over Yin.  The trick is knowing when which is more needed for a particular situation.  That takes wisdom and discernment.   

  All the above may sound like pedantic common sense to many folk reading same, and yet time and time again i observe in others, at times in self, and in outer sources that present themselves as a teacher in some way or manner, that people as a whole tend to polarize or become imbalanced to one or the other. 

  This is no accident, because we live in a like attracts and begets and resonates with like reality. 

  We teach and emphasize what we ourselves are.  If we tend to the Yin within more than not, we tend to build up, like, agree with, and promote that kind of Yin focus. 

Vice versa with the Yang. And vice versa with disliking or disagreeing with the "other side" that we lack attunement too.  Oddly though, when we are imbalanced within, we tend to get into relationships wherein through other people the other polarity gets pushed in our face more.  (These are potential teaching/learning opportunities).

  But greater attunement to PUL, which is what facilitates greater consciousness expansion, maturity, development, etc, also tends to facilitate merging and integration between between these two different, but connected fundamental states, which in a lot of ways are very much like "left and right brain" physically.  The left and right brain hemispheres is the area of the body where these states primarily gets processed and experienced through the physical.

  It is not easy to achieve a consistent, optimal balance between these inner states.  Otherwise, were it were, there would be a lot more people who live and express it.  But, it is an ideal i think which is both worth working towards AND also a universal process. 

  On a physical level, things like Hemisync can help some.  Things like consciously keeping in mind the above trends can help, and again, general attunement to PUL tends to automatically facilitate a greater balance and integration. Asking for definite help in this area, from guidance levels can also help.

Ok, so I finished the very interesting first book of the Backwards series.  I have several observations.

I think her experience and insights were quite real and profound and resonated with me.  I found it fascinating that the actual NDE was put at the very end of the book, rather than the beginning, as knowing her experience first makes the reader more comfortable with the advice that she gives as a result of the experience.  The book is, however titled "Backwards," so in some ways it is poetic and appropriate to put the actual NDE at the end instead of the beginning of the book.

I am not certain that she died in the physical sense, but for myself, that matters not a bit.  This is why, I believe NDERF.ORG has classified the account as a possible NDE.  She does not report her physicians finding her heart stopped, or performing CPR, using a ventilator, etc.  Going into the medical reasons behind my observation would detract from the conversation.  Suffice it to say, that whether or not she actually died in the physical sense, she had a transcendental experience from the body.  Emmanuel Swedenborg had profound contact with the afterlife without dying in the physical sense - so while one can argue whether an NDE makes it more or less legitimate, for me it is not the overriding concern.  However, I do believe her physicians questioned whether or not it was related to anesthesia (per her own account).  Any afterlife exploration can be questioned in this manner. 

Her separation of the light-being/soul from the human animal is unsettling but does solve some vexing issues we all have with living and loving.  She believes we have a symbiotic relationship with the human animal who serves as our host.  Most unsettling, she claims that the human animal can exist without a soul, and that rarely, the soul may leave the animal early - but she doesn't go into detail about that scenario.  Some people in a hobbled or vegetative state perhaps without a soul?  Or worse.

Still, she points out that much fear and action is based on following animal instincts and practical fears in the flesh, and that we always have a choice to act from instinct (the animal level) or to act from our light-being nature (the soul).  She does not judge it.  She believes, as many sources do that we judge ourselves.   But upon seperation of the soul from the body in death, we join other light-beings and are at a much higher level of functioning - multitasking processing vast amounts of knowledge and information from several different perspectives at the same time. 

Ms. Denison was not met by deceased relatives but by 5 light-beings from her own disc/soul group, who she felt she knew forever.  They were excited to see her, and immediately began sharing glimpses of her life as Nanci with her, eager to feel and sample her life review.  She, in turn, merged with them and sampled their lives, and became aware of her own numerous past lives which surfaced after the amnesia induced by being in a human body was lifted.  After spending a brief time with these beings she actually reports merging with Source (God) in a bigger group, but before this was complete, she went back to her own body of her own accord. 

Her insights included that we are all light-beings.  That she believes that reports of hells are actually people in the early stages after death manifesting their still-human fears.  That these stages rarely last long, and that it is all of our destinies to merge back with Source, in the end.  Ms. Denison was informed that we can't "mess things up" in terms of being banished to a hellish plane, etc. for we were all, as souls essentially individualized "source-beams" destined to rejoin source after death.  She states that since our true nature is eternal, brief explorations in a human body, even for 80-90 years, is but a short experience to a light-being. 

Throughout the book, as has been stated here various New Age sources about NDEs and the afterlife are referenced.  I actually found this to detract from the book.  I was really interested in her own account, and didn't want reference to other books I'd read.  Others might feel differently. 

Her take on the afterlife and our true nature was refreshing, gelling with other explorers but adding new dimensions to it.  The idea of a human animal host who agrees to merge with our spirit is troubling to me.  I always imagined that I was a soul encased in flesh.  However, I felt that the body was a manifestation of my soul in the physical world, not an independent animal I inserted myself into.  I'm still not sure what I think about that. 

The message, that love is our true nature of the spirit/soul does come through.  The relationship of each of us to Source (God) is also clear and consistent with Bruce's model and other models. 

Overall, I do recommend the book as an interesting unique afterlife experience.  It has several unique perspectives; contrasting the human animal we all inhabit to the light-being soul we all have (other than the few human animals she mentions who may not have souls). 

M

Doc-

Justin is correct, Newton discussed the continuation of the independent consciousness of a fetus after (as I recall) either an abortion or miscarriage.

I don't remember any other details in terms of the nature or duration of that consciousness. 

I guess I'm viewing Danison's experience as another piece in the puzzle of the afterlife.  Whether it's a piece that completes the puzzle or just takes us a step closer to a full understanding is unknown.

R