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Any Christians on here? (Read 23093 times)
jdee190
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #30 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 1:48pm
 
The Christians that do worry me are the ones who say, you need to accept Jesus or you will not be saved or get to Heaven.

Then if this worries me i also worry about there being no afterlife.

Ridiculous! One of my best friends has been brainwashed by a fundamental Christian, he now believes he has to warn people of Hell and accepting Christ.
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Berserk2
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #31 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 3:21pm
 
jdee,

I was a religious studies professor for 12 years and am now a United Methodist pastor.  I just read your post.  I see that the thread has not really answered your question, yet it has led to an interesting New Age conversation.  Expand your question into all your related questions, and I will start a new thread devoted to your issues.  That way, this thread can continue in its unique direction too.

Don
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b2
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #32 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 4:51pm
 
jdee,

No one has the 'right' to decide whether another person is going to 'hell' if they don't 'believe' the 'right' thing. When I was 13 I was running around telling people the same thing. Did I know what I was talking about? No. I tend to think that your 'fundamentalist' (another label - this person is more than that, by a long shot) is also very fearful, or this 'choice' would not be the one which he/she is offering to others.

It's almost 'parental' to tell someone they must do or think something in particular 'or else'. So, who is trying to control who?

It's about power, jdee, and what makes people feel virtuous, or knowledgeable, or whatever.

But, eventually, it becomes clear that we are all not that different from each other. We each have beliefs. We each have fears.

And, things change. Best to you.


jdee190 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2011 at 1:48pm:
The Christians that do worry me are the ones who say, you need to accept Jesus or you will not be saved or get to Heaven.

Then if this worries me i also worry about there being no afterlife.

Ridiculous! One of my best friends has been brainwashed by a fundamental Christian, he now believes he has to warn people of Hell and accepting Christ.

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jdee190
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #33 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 5:28pm
 
Quote:
jdee,

No one has the 'right' to decide whether another person is going to 'hell' if they don't 'believe' the 'right' thing. When I was 13 I was running around telling people the same thing. Did I know what I was talking about? No. I tend to think that your 'fundamentalist' (another label - this person is more than that, by a long shot) is also very fearful, or this 'choice' would not be the one which he/she is offering to others.

It's almost 'parental' to tell someone they must do or think something in particular 'or else'. So, who is trying to control who?

It's about power, jdee, and what makes people feel virtuous, or knowledgeable, or whatever.

But, eventually, it becomes clear that we are all not that different from each other. We each have beliefs. We each have fears.

And, things change. Best to you.


jdee190 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2011 at 1:48pm:
The Christians that do worry me are the ones who say, you need to accept Jesus or you will not be saved or get to Heaven.

Then if this worries me i also worry about there being no afterlife.

Ridiculous! One of my best friends has been brainwashed by a fundamental Christian, he now believes he has to warn people of Hell and accepting Christ.



You have hit the nail right on the head! My friend never used to knw all the stuff until he was brainwashed into total fear. At only 18 years old he has started smoking to control the fear and anxiety.

BTW, the reason I ended up here and also nearly to atheism was because of this guy, but I already had an underlying problem of anxiety, ocd and hypochondriasis so it hit me worse. But it also helps me identify the real problem I have and address it, but I still worry too much!
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Josh Langley
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #34 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 10:23pm
 
very inetresting conversation, thankyou to everybody.

Jdee, i'm not a Christian but i've just finished reading "Love Wins - a story of heaven and hell and the fate of everyone" by Pastor Rob Bell.

It was an very enlightening read and gives me hope that there are christians out there who understand Christ's real  message. (Which is the same as the Buddha and all other enlightened teachers)
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Berserk2
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #35 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:27am
 
Rob Bell is only the tip of the iceberg among evangelical leaders these days. Rick Warren was the keynote speaker at a recent national Muslim conference!  Even Billy Graham is widely being dismissed as a godless liberal sell-out by many Fundamantlsts.
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hiorta
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 9:25am
 
Jdee, from the work done by various people - Scientists, Mystics, Mediums, Seers and others who have no 'belief' axe to grind, no money to raise,  other folk to 'save' and those who have had an NDE, it can be clearly seen that there is no such event as 'death' apart from the inevitable and natural laying down of the physical body at some point in time.
Now, if there is 'no death', then it follows that there can bo no 'resurrection' - miraculous or not.

If there is no such thing as a 'resurrection', then there is nothing to base Christianity on. Indeed, Arthur Findlay called it 'The Greatest Hoax ever perpetrated upon Humankind.'

So, there is absolutely no need for your anxious worrying.
Grab Life in both hands and let your Reason guide you.
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #37 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:47pm
 
Re: death, etc.   Robert Monroe was not a "religious" man by any means, and it seems that throughout his life he kept a healthy amount of skepticism even to his own experiences and perceptions. 

   But, we find some very interesting and seemingly "fantastical" accounts in his work having to do with the ability of humans to transcend the physical rule sets that most of us think we are always and completely bound to. 

   In two different accounts, Monroe met some humans from very, very long ago in time and in another account some humans from about 1500 years or so in the future from now. 

   Both of these far past and future groups of humans seemed unusual and had a lot of commonalities in various respects.  One, they had lived for a very long time in the same physical vehicle and two they had a complete mastery over their physical environment.   They could manifest physical "objects" out of seeming nothing.  They could change weather patterns with just thought and will. They had full telepathic communicative abilities. 

But, for these purposes, the emphasis is on the very long time of having lived.  It almost reminds me of some of the OT biblical accounts of individuals and even groups of humans living a very long time without the experience of physical death. 

Then, another Monroe account relates to this issue.  Monroe asked his I/there if he could meet the most mature (spiritually/consciousness wise) human living in his time-space reference.   He was led to meet a person whom he first thought of as "He/She". 

  Among the many unusual things Monroe learned about He/She, Monroe learned through complete telepathic communication that He/She though this person utilizes a seeming physical body, has lived one very long continuous lifetime which it seems Monroe just quickly spouted out in his excitement and surprise, "1800 years".   That figure, though not fully accurate, is suspiciously close to how old one Yeshua would be if the Gospels are correct about his "Resurrection" show. 

  Indeed, Monroe hints later on in the conversation that He/She seemed to be already well known about in some way, but not being religious himself (with little tolerance for religious, dogmatic Christianity for much of his life) he projected "but no one really believes you exist."  Also mentioned that he was occidental in origin, hence not Asiatic like we might expect this person to be some exotic Tibetan Monk or some such Wink    Nope, just a simple Jew who filled himself up with love to the nth degree.  (well to be fair, Palestine sort of straddles the line between being occidental and oriental, but being primarily inhabited by peoples of caucasian descent is definitely more "occidental"). 

   Then, you have other sources which support these accounts, ones that came before Monroe and ones Monroe was not particularly interested in.   For example, Edgar Cayce's guidance said that Yeshua did "resurrect" a physical body fascimile which could interact with inphysicals in a physical like way, and yet not be bound by physical laws. 

  Then, Rosiland McKnight who was one of Bob's early explorers back in his lab, well her guidance also said that Yeshua (Jesus) could do some remarkable things and were doing these things before he was crucified.   They mention that he could so raise the vibrations of his physical body, as to dissapear from the physical perceptions of inphysicals he was near. 

  They called this moving into his spiritual body, and having mastery of the levels "below" (read slower vibratory) than the "spiritual body" (read, pure consciousness).  They also mentioned that the human belief and experience of aging was illusionary, and that if a person knew and lived reality enough, they could transcend this illusion.  Something very similar to what Cayce's guidance also said and outlined.

   Most of these sources are well respected in non religious, but nonphysically oriented circles and have verifications in connection with their info in some areas (Cayce's work A LOT).

   But, don't take their or my word for it.  Sincerely intend to hook up to the most spiritually aware, helpful, love attuned and expanded consciousnesses while feeling feelings of love and/or gratitude and ask them or your "higher self" if these are true or not. 

  I have, and have gotten answers, so i do know that these sources are not full of it when it comes to the seemingly "amazing" potential of humans who are fully matured in their consciousness.  Jesus, or Yeshua as i prefer, was just one who did this in record time, and if Cayce's work is to be considered, then it wasn't his only life of such mastery over matter and it's probable "rule sets". 

  I've also have been given various kinds of guidance that it is probable that i will do some of these things later on in this life.   This guidance has come from both within (dreams, meditation, etc), and from without (other sensitives). 

   So do i "believe" in this kind of stuff?  No, i know it's a reality, but i suppose i won't be 100 percent certain until i do some of these things myself.  But i'm about 99 percent certain now.

  It's limiting to project our dislike of dogmatic, religious Christianity onto Yeshua and put him in a box because of the former. 

  He was all about freeing us from the boxes we put ourselves in, and the main way to accomplish same is to choose love (and through experience and challenge). 

  One such box, one of the strongest and most persistant boxes out there, is the belief that a human needs to transition from the physical dimension into others.  If we truly understand that ALL of this, both physical and nonphysical is nothing more than just data and information with a seeming quality of vibration, and that all is completely connected and One, then one will understand that to phase into or be aware of any nonphysical dimension, does not require that one needs to completely "leave" this slow vibratory "physical" dimension. 

  Our bodies "die" for two main reasons.  One, we don't love and live reality enough, and two we expect to, we believe so, and so we do.    But as "He/She", Yeshua, those far past and further future humans, and others have shown or different nonphysical guidances have outlined, this isn't a necessity. 

  So, in reality, religious Christianity isn't too far off in it's claims about Jesus.  They are just off in making it seem like only he could and has done these kinds of things.  They are off in putting him on an unreachable pedestal.  And they are off in various other ways, but that's not germane to this conversation.



   
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recoverer
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #38 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 1:37pm
 
Don:

Perhaps you are alluding to how people such as Jehova Witnesses have misinterpreted some of the words in the Bible in a false way. Perhaps you can clarify about the interpretive mistakes they've made.

Certainly there are a lot of Christians who don't believe that after you die you go to sleep until Christ comes around. My Aunt was a Catholic her whole life. Some Jehova Witnesses started to visit her. She said they weren't influencing her. But then she started to speak as if you go to sleep after you die. Argh! I told her to make certain she looks for Uncle Jack (her deceased husband) after she dies. I also told her about how Jehova Witnesses have made a number of key predictions that didn't prove to be true. The Jehova Witnesses no longer visit her. Smiley



Berserk2 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2011 at 3:21pm:
jdee,

I was a religious studies professor for 12 years and am now a United Methodist pastor.  I just read your post.  I see that the thread has not really answered your question, yet it has led to an interesting New Age conversation.  Expand your question into all your related questions, and I will start a new thread devoted to your issues.  That way, this thread can continue in its unique direction too.

Don

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jdee190
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #39 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 7:08am
 
Crossbow, when you have these out of body experiences, can you actually visit the afterlife and see people there?

And are they definetely real and not some crazy brain trick?
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crossbow
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #40 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 10:13am
 
Jdee asked:

1. "Crossbow, when you have these out of body experiences, can you actually visit the afterlife and see people there?"

Crossbow replies: Yes, Jdee, wasn't I clear?  Wink I have visited many afterlife places and have seen and talked with the people there.

2. "And are they definetely real and not some crazy brain trick?"

Crossbow replies: You are wise to question this. Our mind can easily play tricks on us. We can fool and delude ourselves easily. And being able to consciously leave the body can test one's mental stability. It took me many years to learn how to discern reality from falsity. I rely on a sound foundation or positioning of my awareness, along with a strict method and guidlines. Even so, I can make errors. But what I know as true and false I can only tell to others as information for them, which they do not know if it is true or false. So although I can know that an astral trip I have taken is real, I cannot prove it is real to others. The truth I know is just for me to know. No one else knows it, until they have experienced it too, but even that is not enough, for they must have also learnt to distinguish truth from falsity, which is even harder to do out-of-body than it is in-body. Such things as leaving the body require us to have stable and healthy astral bodies. The astral body is the personality body with our thoughts and feelings and it dissengages from the physical body when we leave it. We can also then dissengage from the astral body and travel in a foundational body or soul body. All this requires us to be psychologically fit and healthy - to have steady and strong self-awareness and very good mental-emotional self-control.  So do you see what must be attended to first Jdee?

†bow
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jdee190
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #41 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 11:30am
 
crossbow wrote on Aug 4th, 2011 at 10:13am:
Jdee asked:

1. "Crossbow, when you have these out of body experiences, can you actually visit the afterlife and see people there?"

Crossbow replies: Yes, Jdee, wasn't I clear?  Wink I have visited many afterlife places and have seen and talked with the people there.

2. "And are they definetely real and not some crazy brain trick?"

Crossbow replies: You are wise to question this. Our mind can easily play tricks on us. We can fool and delude ourselves easily. And being able to consciously leave the body can test one's mental stability. It took me many years to learn how to discern reality from falsity. I rely on a sound foundation or positioning of my awareness, along with a strict method and guidlines. Even so, I can make errors. But what I know as true and false I can only tell to others as information for them, which they do not know if it is true or false. So although I can know that an astral trip I have taken is real, I cannot prove it is real to others. The truth I know is just for me to know. No one else knows it, until they have experienced it too, but even that is not enough, for they must have also learnt to distinguish truth from falsity, which is even harder to do out-of-body than it is in-body. Such things as leaving the body require us to have stable and healthy astral bodies. The astral body is the personality body with our thoughts and feelings and it dissengages from the physical body when we leave it. We can also then dissengage from the astral body and travel in a foundational body or soul body. All this requires us to be psychologically fit and healthy - to have steady and strong self-awareness and very good mental-emotional self-control.  So do you see what must be attended to first Jdee?

†bow


Wow thats amazing, thank you.

Learning all this stuff has helped me, and also made the appearance of my dead grandad to my gran in spirit form more believable.

I still have my doubts, scientist Carl Sagan spoke out about religion and the afterlife and called it superstition.

But how can he say this when he has never experienced anything like OBEs, NDE's etc and what he knows about theology and religion will be very very little.

However are there not great scientists who have STUDIED the afterlife and now believe in it? Rather than just make low comments from the outside.
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jdee190
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #42 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 11:40am
 
Also Crossbow, when you said that religions are made to suit different people and the afterlife and your Heaven is what you want it to be, does that mean a Christian whos perfect afterlife would be to be in Heaven with his family, would get this afterlife and to their Heaven?
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #43 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 4:25pm
 
Hi Jdee,

You're doing a lot better now I see.

I can't really comment on the religious side of things but I have been lurking in the background and I have to say you have brought up an excellent topic here  Smiley. Thanks to you, Crossbow, Justin, Recoverer for their insights, interesting stuff indeed!

Anyway, Jdee take a look at this site by Victor Zammit, it is very interesting and has science involved too. There are also a lot of references to other scientists who believe there is an afterlife.

http://www.victorzammit.com

Andy
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Re: Any Christians on here?
Reply #44 - Aug 5th, 2011 at 2:31am
 
jdee190 wrote on Aug 4th, 2011 at 11:40am:
Also Crossbow, when you said that religions are made to suit different people and the afterlife and your Heaven is what you want it to be, does that mean a Christian whos perfect afterlife would be to be in Heaven with his family, would get this afterlife and to their Heaven?

Yes Jdee, that is correct. Everyone is catered for.

Most people spend lots of time in the afterlife, meeting up with loved ones, enjoying favourite pastimes, and learning new skills, before after a long while they might eventually feel like coming back here for some more Earth-school learning. There is plenty of time and opportunity in the afterlife to re-unite with loved ones from Earth and spend happy times together. Eventually, after a good long stay, a person might think of something more they would like to experience and learn on Earth, and if they wish they can decide to come back for another go. It is quite common for families and groups of friends to come to Earth together. Of course if they decide to come back for another go, they get a new body and new brain so they usually don't remember their previous lives and afterlives. This makes what they learn in life fresh and accurate because it is untainted by the memory of previous experiences, and they don't get distracted by the past but concentrate only on the experiences and learnings they are having in the present. Friends and families are destined to always be together, whether in this life or the afterlife, because they are bound together by love, which is stronger than magnetism, gravity, or any other force.

So don't worry Jdee - you and your loved ones will always be together.    
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