Andy B wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:



  I brought up the thermite/thermate/nano thermite-thermate issue because it clearly answered the various issues that you had brought up earlier on this thread.  One of your main points earlier was that if it was a controlled demolition, it would have been more loud, dramatic, etc.  I replied, yeah, if one was using the typical demolition explosives that would be the case, but not if one was using super sophisticated thermite derivatives. 

  As regards the rest of your above reply, i've seen you say similar before. 

   What i'm interested in is clear refutation of people like Jeff King and other highly educated, well trained people with many years in the field and the various logical holes they point out in the official story.

So far, this has not been forthcoming on this thread, but sure has been a lot of distractions.  Rondele is using a lot of those tactics i've noticed. 

Another way that people tend to do the whole 'defend belief system structure' dance around truths known unconsciously deep down.  Or, if they happen to be in the business of deliberately trying to mislead.

  You telling me that you've heard about the thermite theory, and became aware of it long ago, but just don't buy it, well that doesn't help me one bit.  I want to see all the various reasons, backed by holistic, internally consistent logic, of why these alternative ideas supposedly don't fit the official story. 

  I think it's "that" important of an issue to be as clear and holistically logical as one can possibly be.  Particularly since i happen to live in the U.S. under this government.  Kind of changes things a bit for an individual in such a case.

  But this is not a political forum and this thread has become a huge side tracking to the purposes of this forum, so maybe it's best not to continue this here.  If it's tbc, i will at least do so, in the "off topic" threads speaking for self. 

The minute before the collapse of one of the Towers, a lot of white smoke can be seen to rise from the lower parts of the Tower.

Rondelle asked: Once again, let me pose this question: If Gore had won the 2000 election, does anyone seriously think he would be accused of orchestrating the 9/11 attacks??

Recoverer responds: Would the attack still have happened? Would Gore had made use of the fact that the Bush family was in charge of the World Trade center security? This is hard to say.

Other wise, if the attack still happened, yes, some people with inquiring minds still would've wondered if it was an inside job.

Perhaps it is a conspiracy theory to believe that people are concerned about what took place simply because Bush was president at the time. Sounds like a Hannity defense. One might still wonder why "ALL" three buildings fell as if controlled explosions took place even though this doesn't happen when other buildings catch on fire.

Speaking of the Off Topic section, that's where this entire thread belongs.

Or maybe Bruce could create a Conspiracy Forum.

R

  One last reply from me on this thread before i take it to the Off topic section.  Actually, i'm not speaking to 9-11 in a direct sense now anyways.

  Andy wrote, Rondele isn't trying to distract with his answers imo, as he said, he finds it difficult when he witnessed something and people are basically saying he's wrong. I can see where he's coming from 100%.

   Andy, i've been on this site a long time and have had much time and observation of Rondele (and some interaction) .   I am an unusually honest and direct person at times, and despite that it may make me "look bad", unspiritual, or paranoid to others here, i am going to frankly state my mind and heart here. 

  With perhaps the exception of one post wherein Rondele stated that he observed one of the plane crashes on that day, and also knew someone (a neighbor), who died in one of those flights, most of his posts and replies on this thread have been about attaching over generalized and negatively judgmental labels to those who believe differently than he.  Sometimes this has been more subtle, and other times less so.

Rather than argue the specific points people like Albert or i brought up, he has used what i now think of as "Fox News" method of trying to convince people of something.  This is all about undermining the opponent and their character, rather than directly and logicality debating the issue, topic, and facts on hand.  It's a way of appealing to and affecting people emotionally and in a "right brain" sense.  If the right brain doesn't have the balance of the left brain helping out, a person will believe such expressions because of the emotional impact.  Plus, there is the repetition factor.  As Herman Goeing knew so well and said, if one repeats an untruth enough times, people start to eventually accept it as truth.  (especially if it is geared more to their emotional and right brain side rather than clear logic or intuitive side).

  So, due to his style and majority of responses on here, he has lost credibility to me as someone who is open minded about this topic. 

Moreoever, he has lost credibility to me in general, because while this isn't apparent to some on here, i've seen repeated attempts on his part to very oh so subtly undermine Bruce Moen and his work on this site. 

  I will give an example of this.  Bruce has stated in his work that he's been in contact with nonphysically focused Bob Monroe. 

    Rondele brought this up, and then mentioned he met Laurie Monroe and that Laurie told him personally in a private conversation that Laurie expressed disbelief that anyone has contacted her father so long after his transition. 

    Well, not long after this, someone shared a link to an article wherein in Laurie's own words, she wrote that she and others have been in off and on contact with her father.   

    Now, either Laurie Monroe was lying to Rondele, or Rondele was lying to us about the whole situation.  Either way, it seems a bit "fishy" to me.

  I lean to the latter for various reasons, but primarily because like i said earlier, i've seen these subtle attempts of Rondele to undermine Bruce's work and thus indirectly Bruce himself.

  Do i personally dislike Rondele?  No, but i'm not fooled by him.  I've come to believe he has a negative agenda for being on this site, and it's interesting to me that he spent some time helping Vicky who is personally close to Bruce. 

  Originally his "good works" to Vicky was undisclosed and anonymous to both her and this site , but then for some reason, he mentioned publicly that he was the one who had helped Vicky.  The "some reason" seems to relate to peoples questioning Rondele's attitude and comments about Bruce and his work. 

  Rondele responded by saying that he is a long time supporter of Bruce, went to a workshop, has read all his books, etc.  Then mentioned how it was he who had helped Vicky.

    And yet, i've seen what i've seen from him.  I've also seen him mess up on some pretty major points on Bruce's work. 

For example, on this very thread, Rondele mentioned that "Max" of Bruce's book was a thief in a thiefs hell.

  This is not true (If one reads the books, Max was an emotional sadist who in his in physical life had been a psychologist/therapist type who had misused his position to emotionally hurt others) and while i believe this was probably just a simply mistake and misremembering on Rondele's part, it also makes me think he isn't as supportive of Bruce's work as he has claimed.

  I know how my memory works.  When it comes to things i'm really interested in, really like, and emotionally invested or connected to, my memory is excellent and clear.  But with things less emotionally affecting or important to me, i tend to mix things up if there is a lot of time between me and the info, etc.  This is why, despite that it's been years that i've read the book which contains this account, i immediately saw the error. It's because i like and respect Bruce's work that much.

  In any case, i don't trust Rondele as i've seen various incidents over the years, that incline me to seriously question his presence here. 

  One such obvious thing is that this site (and especially this particular forum) is all based around people's actual experiences with the nonphysical.  I've read A LOT of Rondeles posts on here, and i can't remember him speaking on his own experiences dealing with the nonphysical. 

Most often, he speaks on an outer source or book or person, or he talks about unrelated subjects like on this thread.  In general, he doesn't seem very interested in what this site is about at it's fundamental core. 

  This is VERY rare with posters on this site, the huge majority of which have at least shared at least a couple of their own experiences with the nonphysical, even if it was just dreams or what not.   

  Also, isn't it just so convenient that Rondele not only personally saw the plane crash into the Pentagon, but ALSO personally knew and had a neighbor that was on one of the flights? 

  This is either quite a confluence of synchronicity, or it is a lie to bolster his agenda of discrediting the alternative explanations and beliefs which are skeptical of the official 9/11 story.  In any case, it reminds me a bit about his personal conversation with Laurie Monroe and that whole thing.   

   I rarely, rarely ever speak about fellow forum members in such a personal, direct, individual and critical way, but i've been seeing and feeling these things off and on in regards to Rondele and it's only been built up and supported by his actions and words on this site.

  Again, i'm not fooled by either 9/11 or by Rondele's questionable presence here.  I'm about 98 percent certain that he has some kind of negative agenda for being here, and not is all as it seems on the surface of things.

Rondelle does have a tendency to make judgmental and flippant comments on this forum. It seems as if he follows Don's (Berserk) example.

I believe it is fine to speak about things in a discerning way, but I don't believe it is okay to be disprespectful.

I must also say that before Justin wrote his last post, I found it hard to believe that Rondelle saw an airplane crash into the Pentagon. This seems like a far fetched idea, unlike the possibility of 911 being an inside job.

I need to add that I basically believe Rondelle is a good guy and has good intentions.  However, I also believe he allows the sarcastic part of himself to manifest on this forum at times.

If he made up the story of seeing an airplane crash into the Pentagon it would've been more of a matter of him having a flipant attitude when it comes to this forum, than a matter of his being liar. My guess is that he relates to the people he knows in an honest manner. 

Now if he said that he saw a cruise missle fly into the pentagon or saw a guy press a button just before one of the towers came down, I'd be more inclined to believe him. 

Rondelle:

Before you wrote your last post, I saw that you, Justin and I were on this forum. As a joke I called him and hummed the Jeopardy song, as I (and perhaps Justin) waitied for your response.

I got the impression that he didn't feel good about writing his post, but he went ahead and did so, possibly because he's not afraid to speak his mind.

It may be that he has some misunderstandings about some of the accusations he made. For example, the assistance you provided to Vicky.

However, I believe it is a mistake to suggest that he needs counseling or lacks PUL because some of his accusations aren't accurate. You yourself have made false accusations when you accused people of being Bush/Cheney haters. You are so far from the truth about this.

When it comes to Bruce being a disk member with Robert Monroe, my memory about this matter isn't clear, but I do remember that somebody acccused Bruce Moen of not speaking the truth. I also remember that Bruce responded to this allegation. My memory is unclear because I thought Don had written the accusatory post. Perhaps Justin is speaking of another. Whatever the case, when you state that Laurie said one thing while other sources say differently, perhaps it isn't unreasonable for one to wonder about the inconsistency.

As I already said, when I read what you wrote about an airplane crashing into the towers, I doubted what you said. Not because I believe you are a blatant liar, but because your sometimes disrespectful attitude towards this forum caused me to believe that you might make such a false statement. If somebody on this forum stated that they saw a cruise missle crash into the Pentagon, chances are you would doubt this person without having to have an overly negative opinion about he or she.

This forum is set up so you can see a poster's last 40 posts. I checked your last 40 so I can show how often you make sarcastic remarks. Perhaps if you don't want people to have doubts about you, you should find a more respectful way. (I wrote a few comments within brackets.)

-How come no one has mentioned that Bush also ordered the levees in New Orleans to be blown up, in order that the damage from Katrina could be maximized?

You guys are slipping....

R

-It's really all about their hatred of Bush. It's just that the conspiracies fit into that agenda.  I'll say it again...if Gore had been elected, none of this conversation would be going on, the attacks notwithstanding.

Why don't you guys just come out and say that Bush/Cheney are guilty of mass murder?

-I think the hatred of Bush/Cheney (yes, even among those who proclaim their pure, unconditional love) is so strong that it propelled all sorts of conspiracies.  Even the one that supposedly shows a cruise missile hitting the Pentagon. Obviously fake but who cares as long as it fits an agenda.

[I'm not certain if you were serious about the below.]
Another poster's statement: <<Hi Vicky : Without going into what happened I can report that my brain is transforming... this is my second or third session since the above... I am transforming into to an entirely 'different entity... more powerful and balanced... I had a solid vision of an office with a light brown  leather upholdstered desk chair... it was as solid as any physical world office that I might walk into in my physical body... as visualizations began to occur they were very real world but fleeting but the process of transformtion is underway... my tendency is to overdo it rather than stay the course with my present regiem I am tempted to do three meditations a day instead of just one and occasionally two... depending on my time constains...>>
Rondelle's response: Tito-  Sounds to me that you might be transforming into what Bruce calls a "Big Fish."
 
You should contact Bruce asap with this exciting news.


R

-Getting hungry for a nice grilled rib roast, preceded by a well made extra dry martini (shaken, not stirred, topped off with oil from lemon peel). 

I've found that blue cheese with rice crackers goes great with the martini, fyi.

R


-[An example of when you spoke of what Bruce Moen wrote. Certainly it is okay to question what he says, but sometimes you give the impression this is one of your motives for being on this forum.]

Incidentally, regarding AIDS, the guide told Bruce (and I'm quoting here): "Look at the population segment where AIDS first showed up- in homosexuals.  Now there's a group even good Christians can hate.  That's a real incongruity in a religion based on a God who said you must love your neighbor as yourself.......that incongruity is an opportunity to incarnate into a lifetime as a Christian to learn about Love."

You can draw your own conclusions.  I certainly have drawn mine.

R

-Doc-

Amid so much of the outright nonsense that seems to populate this board lately, your post stands out as an eloquent beacon of common sense and compassion.

Juditha, listen carefully to what Matthew said.  He has given you words to live by. You will never get better advice.

R


-Seems to me the Robert Bruce thread has officially jumped the shark.

R


[It seems that with the below you are calling some of us either liars or deluded.]
-Well, one good thing if the world really does end in 2012- we won't have to worry any longer about an invasion of reptilian aliens.

In fact, if the reptilians were smart, they would invade right now.  Otherwise there might not be anything left worth invading.

R

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