Berserk2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2013 at 4:28pm:

Berserk2, you both think ES is "fatally flawed" and a "greatest scientific mind".

Are you just cherry picking ideas of ES according to your own random
likings? Rejecting other parts based on your whim?

That doesn't add up.

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2013 at 10:35pm:


The only Turd here is you Don! Excreting your usual religious self-righteous intellectual diatribe!   

Quote:

Hey Fon. Seriously, is this christian neighbourly turn the cheek love? It is similar to new age unconditional love, and PUL. They say it is what everyone should strive for it, until turdy words show them exactly where they are in that regard, and where they are not. Not at all unconditional. By the way, have a serious day.

So your tactic is to shot the messenger? [/quote]

I believe the word you want is 'shoot."  No, not shoot; just to ignore --in the same way I would ignore posters who argue that that Holocaust never happened or, as in your case, that a plane never crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11.

Berserk, no matter where I touch your carefully built up card house
about Swedenborg, it seems to crumble rather rapidly.

Let's take an interesting claim about Swedenborg.

Reincarnation.

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I've tried to figure out how many books Swedenborg wrote. One source
said 120 books, another source said 300 books. The exact number of books
written by Swedenborg seems debated as he did his writings in works,
which contained many smaller and bigger books.

Several of Swedenborg's works were not published until after his death.

So to simplify thing, let's go for the lower number. Assume that Swedenborg
only wrote 120 books, which still is very many books.

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If Swedenborg didn't think reincarnation was true, wouldn't he mentioned
his opinion in several books? If we after all assume that he wrote 120
books, and he was very concerned with Heaven and Hell, wouldn't he
have stated his opinion about reincarnation in several books?

No?

Not at all?

In fact, even True Christians (followers of Swedenborg) can't find
more than one book of Swedenborg where he remotely speaks about
something which seems related to reincarnation.

Strange, isn't it?

One book.

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What book do True Christians mention? Well, their only source to
their claim that Swedenborg didn't believe in reincarnation, is his
book 'Heaven and Hell', and the only passages which can be
referred concerning reincarnation are HH 246 and HH 256.

Let's look at them. Here is an extract from HH 246:

"...angels cannot utter a single word of human language (see n. 237);
furthermore, human language is natural and they are spiritual, and
spiritual beings cannot give expression to anything in a natural way."


And from HH 256 (my bold text):

"If a spirit were to speak from his own memory with a man the man would
not know otherwise than that the thoughts then in his mind were his own,
although they were the spirit’s thoughts. This would be like the
recollection of something which the man had never heard or seen.

That this is so has been given me to know from experience. This is
the source of the belief held by some of the ancients that after some
thousands of years they were to return into their former life, and into
everything they had done, and in fact, had returned. This they concluded
because at times there came to them a sort of recollection of things that
they had never seen or heard."


Surprise, Surprise!

As you can see, Swedenborg actually speaks in favor of reincarnation.

But regardless of Swedenborg being against or for reincarnation, neither
does the Disk concept take such traditional positions. For example Monroe
visited a dead friend in F 27 and at one time saw an "overlay" of a child,
who recently had died.

It proved to be another incarnation of Monroe's friend, but at the same
time, the original incarnation was still present. So reincarnations in
the Disk/I-There concept are different, as it is the Disk which sends
down collected parts to become incarnated as a new individual.

They next incarnation is not a traditional Hindu/Buddha _reincarnation_
in regards of the Disk/I-There concept.

As you can see, reincarnation in both Swedenborg's view and in the Disk
concept can be quite similar and possible.

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Why then does True Christians claim that Swedenborg denied
reincarnation? Well, the reason is probably that they are
Christians, so they have to deny reincarnation.

The concept of reincarnation has been removed from the Bible, that's
why. Removed by reasons of political and religious stupidity.

I'm an atheist. The Bible is crap. So Berserk, I just wanted to point
this out to you. I still assume that you are speechless.

In his book "Heaven and Hell" Swedenborg wrote than when a man spirit and woman spirit get married, they merge to an extent where the man half becomes completely responsible for thinking, while the woman half becomes responsible for will. I find this hard to believe.

Swedenborg wrote some things that sound accurate to me, but he also wrote some things that don't.  Therefore, I believe it would be foolish for me to conclude that reincarnation doesn't exist in some way simply because he wrote that it doesn't.

There are sources of information that are significantly more current and expansive than Swedenborg and they state that in some way reincarnation does exist. This way of thinking matches my own experience. My experience doesn't become invalid simply because it doesn't support the viewpoint somebody else is very staunchly defending.

Don:

You really don't do yourself a favor if you limit yourself to the notion that a source can't be valid if it speaks of reincarnation.

Trying to figure this matter out isn't simply a matter of using your logic, because logic won't do the trick if you are overly attached to obtaining a certain conclusion.

To some degree, you are probably afraid to seriously consider if reincarnation exists because if you allow yourself to do so you'll accept (supposed) misinformation that comes from deceptive beings.  As long as you have good intentions you should feel free to seriously consider whether reincarnation in some  way exists.

Also, it isn't fair for you to expect other people to be open minded to what you have to say, when you aren't willing to be open minded to what they have to say. I'm not saying you have to accept what they say blindly. But occasionally you have to be willing to admit that you might be wrong about something.

My way of thinking has changed quite a bit since I joined this forum. Do you feel as if your way of thinking has changed at all since you joined?

You probably know this, but I meant "willpower."

Quote:

It's very, very serious matter. Will is the one at the end. It's under
Swedenborg's HH 367:

"Marriage in heaven is a conjunction of two into one mind. (. . .)
So in heaven a married pair is spoken of, not as two, but as one angel."


When you marry in Heaven, you become a little angel.

Will.