Hello Vajra. Below are some responses within brackets. I didn't respond to everything because I'm at work and have a limited amount of time.

We've discussed this at length, but never really reached any view that reconciles the 'soul' and 'no soul' views - the latter epitomised by the Buddhist view that there's nothing that continues permanently between reincarnations - that the apparent 'me' is in reality only an aggregate of happenings that temporarily align to create that appearance.

[Once a person starts communicating with a light being and seeing what such a light being is capable of, it hard to believe that such a being is nothing more than a collection of deluded aggregates that are destined to be destroyed. Rather, one finds that one is in touch with a being who has gone through enough learning experiences so it knows how to use energy in a controlled and intelligent way.

If one considers how beings occur at different levels, e.g., disks, planning intelligences, this supports the viewpoint of beings who have reached the point where they are in control of the creative energy they make use of, rather than creative energy being nothing more than someting that deludes them.]


I've been playing with this (am I a piece of Source/primordial awareness driving a convincing but ultimately unreal body through existence like a car, or a physical mind and body that happens to host a bit of Source?), and it strikes me (drawing on teaching and other's experience) that to try to explain my current take on it more clearly might be of interest.  

Life in this reality may (to list two common views from among among the lots of possibilities) be a chosen learning experience, or something we've got ourselves stuck in through belief in separation from Source. The latter put another way might be the result of our getting hung up on the above belief that 'me' is truly a 'real' physical entity living on Earth in space time.

[I believe that life is like an interactive movie. We take part in it so we can see what possibilities exist when it comes to the creative aspect of our being, and so we can see if any benefit can be derived by taking part in such an exploration.  If we consider this from the viewpoint of getting entangled within the movie, then life seems like a mistake.  Once we get to the point where we are no longer entangled by the movie we can use the lessons learned to our advantage.  A viewer gets defined by a movie only to the extent and for as long as a viewer allows itself to get defined by a movie. The knowledge that is gained can never be lost.

I believe that when people think in terms of being stuck, they view life too much from this side of the fence, rather than from the side a light being views life from.]

Buddhist (and I guess broader Eastern) teachings suggest that karma is the package of beliefs that results in mind creating this whole flow of reality, as well as at the 'me' level the physical body and the circumstances into which we are born, our tendencies, and the happenings we will be exposed to during our lives. This includes the whole package of beliefs that creates the ego or mistaken sense of self or 'me'.

Extra normal experience and teaching suggest that there's a 'piece' of Source or primordial mind in each of us - some of us can at times separate from the physical (karmic existence), and even temporarily transcend individuality to again experience Source.  

This piece of Source manifests characteristics like awareness, intuitive knowing, creativity and love - but it's not easily defined, and while its manifestations mix with and are easily drowned out by those of ego it's quite separate from it and from the karmically created sense of 'me' or self. Because of timelessness and the blurring of the boundaries between individuality and unity it can't easily be defined using our normal mind as a simple separate 'me' or 'part me' - it's perhaps a form of existence that's pretty much impossible to describe using our space/time based language and concepts.

[Either we view just a small part of the movie during any particular now, or we view the entire film. Which ever way we choose, the entire film is within us.

This inner us is alway connected to source because it is a part of source.  Once individual portions were given the ability to determine their own fate, their existence became a reality. For whatever reason energy can be used in a way so that numerous life histories can be created. Mixtures of energy cling to each other according to how they relate to each other.]

It doesn't have to reincarnate, but the problem (maybe not a problem?) is that in most cases it's at some point forgotten what it truly is, and instead identified wholly with existence as an individual time/space vehicle. (body and mind apparently living a physical life as a 'me') You could say that it's become so habituated to physicality and using language and space/time concepts that it finds it harder and harder to imagine the possibility of any other mode of existence.

[I figure that spirits need to reach the point where they are willing to see that they are a part of a greater self/disk/whatever name you like. They won't be able to completely remember who/what they are, until they are ready to make such a connection. Some spirits will need to go through some process of learning before they reach this stage.

When it comes to reincarnational goals, for the most part I believe such goals exist at greater self/disk level.  I believe these goals mostly pertain to lessons that still need to be accumulated, rather than an attachment to the physical World. I say this partly because disk level consciousness already exists at a level that is quite removed from the physical World.  There might also be certain patterns of mind that need to be worked out, and these patterns get worked out by selves/probes that are created by a disk. I say this with the understanding that any self which incarnates is only a very small part of an entire greater self/disk.

There might be some selves that reincarnate before rejoining a disk. Perhaps because such a self is really unhappy with what it accomplished and wants to contribute something more positive. I wonder about this though. If it is understood that because of the way this World is many selves are going to get caught up in a negative incarnation,  will the lessons gained be accepted for whatever merrit they contribute, even if this merrit takes the form of "what not to do."  It is important to remember that any life experience is just one small part of the film that is viewed.

There might be selves that return to greater self/disk and later on choose to reincarnate for some reason.  I suggest this simply because people like Bruce Moen have suggested this. I've been told differently with the messages I've received. I've been told that "each self incarnates only just one time."  Anything that needs to be taken care of is taken care of by succeeding greater self/disk members." Why the discrepency? I don't know. Whatever the case, I believe that each person needs to be responsible and do the best job he or she can, so there won't be any unpleasant surprises.]



The newly incarnating (first time around) bit of Source can probably choose the type of vehicle it creates/experiences physical existence through, but those that have been around lots of times before and have got caught up in the above belief/addiction are probably stuck with dragging the the latest  package of karmic propensities (beliefs) they have mistakenly attached themselves to with them - and hence they create another life based on them.

[The needs won't be based solely on what an individual self will need. They will be based on what a disk/greater self as a whole needs. It will also be a matter of what is needed beyond and individual disk's needs, since each disk takes part in the divine plan.]

They feel a need to reincarnate back into the physical, because while the karma initially separates  in the afterlife state the result is that after a short time they start feeling themselves an incomplete 'me' - as a result of no longer having the body and existence in the physical life they have come to regard as normal.

[Once a self reconnects to its greater self/disk, it will find that a oneness of mind exists. It may be that another part of its disk or even an affiliated disk already completed the lesson plan that it needs to learn. If not, a future self could take care of such lessons along with working out whatever lingering mind pattern needs to be worked out. Consider how in Bruce's third book he wrote about how he was provided with certain retriever traits before he incarnated.  Consider how Robert Monroe's I-there (disk) told him that his incarnation was the result of a mixture of traits that his I-there needed to incarnate. Consider what Thomas Sawyer said about reincarnation during his NDE account. In particular, the last paragraph:

"Thomas Sawyer learns some interesting facts from the light about reincarnation.

Reincarnation is not a linear thing. One of the problems in defining it is that there is no analogy to it. It is outside of time, yet we can't help but think of it in terms of the past and the future, and this incarnation. The whole story is so big and so involved.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to reach a goal. The goal is true self-realization. Self-realization is to know that you are a soul, a part of God, yet also the Whole. Perhaps no one has a very good image at all of his or her soul - the whole self. And they have no idea of what proportion their personality is in relationship to their soul.

As an example, a characteristic of your personality is one percent of all of your personality characteristics put together, and all of your personality characteristics make up your personality, and your personality is only about five percent of your soul, then we are blinding ourselves to 95 percent of the rest of our soul in order to reincarnate.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to evolve through many personalities. The definition of reincarnation is that your personality is who you are in your current lifetime, and that it can be reincarnated as an entirely different personality with the characteristics of the previous personality and previous personalities including even characteristics of another soul altogether. That is, characteristics of your present personality may be the reincarnation of other characteristics of personalities from your previous lifetimes as well as characteristics from personalities """""from other souls"""""."]

 
With the result that (as in the Bardo teachings of Tibetan Buddhism) they start the process of  reattaching to their karmic beliefs by creating in the afterlife (  I'll just nibble one chocolate biscuit!), and next thing get sucked into a blowout (going the whole hog back on earth) and it's reincarnation time.

My tentative suggestion would be that the afterlife scenarios we connect with from this life as reported  on this board are actually karmic creations brought into existence as above. Because they are not physical we (?) seem to have better access to higher states of awareness in them than in physical life.

One basic question that follows from this is that of how much control we might have over how much of this package of karma we reattach to and manifest when we reincarnate. Is our choice limited only to how we respond to it, or can we with assistance (addiction counselling?  ) and a degree of realisation choose to adjust the package of beliefs we go into and create our next life with? The hopelessly addicted (wholly non spiritual) presumably will be stuck with living out the lot with all the pain and suffering that entails.

[A lot of our limitations while physical are based on our body's biochemistry and neurological limitations. Initially some spirits might have a problem because they developed mind patterns that are based upon bodily influences. I wonder how long things such as a sex drive will stay in place when the hormones and sex organs that make sexuality possible no longer exist. Once a spirit finds its way out of such a limited way of thinking, it'll find that there are much greater ways of being fullfilled.]


The exceptions are said to be the realised people that have gotten over this apparently highly addictive package of beliefs/can handle separation from their karmic propensities/can handle the urge to reincarnate, and have started to remember what they truly are again - thus freeing themselves from the need for physical incarnation. They are able if they so choose to remain with Source outside of karmic influences. (many choose out of compassion to reincarnate anyway to help those still bound to physical life)

[Overcoming the influences of the body and this World while in the World is quite a task. I don't believe that most spirits need to do so while occupying a body, because this World was created more for learning purposes, rather than being a huge obstacle that has to be overcome. I believe that the spiritual goal of the human race exists on a more universal level rather than an individual level. The goal is to make this planet a place where it lives more according to love than it does, because right now too many negative incarnational possibilities/film scripts are available.]  

Hi all     I have to say that you are who you are, when you cross over as my dad aint changed or i would not recognise him through a medium and reincarnation is definetly not on my agenda when i cross over, as i no way am coming back to this sad excuse for a world and as God is my witness i have come out of my body and my spirit looked pale yellow so it is definetly a fact our spirit, which we have all got comes out when we die.

Love and God bless    love juditha                    

Hi blink  I felt amazed when i saw my spirit,there was the proof in front of me as i always beleived but to witness it actually happen was great.
When it happened i had a really loud vibration in my head ,which i had never experienced before and as this vibration started my spirit came out parrellel to my body as i was laying down at the time and i was looking at my spirit and it was beautiful and a very pale yellow colour and it looked what i would describle as like a shimmering satin texture but not heavy looking like satin on earth,my spirit was laying half way across my body and it proved so much that our spirit really does exist and then i just went back into my body.
  That's why  i've used God as my witness here,who i would never use unless i was telling the ultimate truth as i would be to afraid to use God as my witness if i was lieing.Because i wanted to prove on here that it is all fact.

Love and God bless       love juditha

Alan -

You mentioned briefly in your post before last about your NDE.

Have you put a description of the experience elsewhere on this Board? - I would be very interested to read of it!

Best wishes,

Alfred

Interesting thread Ian. I'm trying to condense the many questions arising from it into just one question but I think I shall fail! 
but if I tried the question always ends up Who and What Are We?

This who and what are we question is at the top of Bruce's beginning statements in his books and is the thesis for most all book I read. perhaps we learn the answers by relating together so thanks for the post.

its for sure my tree doesn't talk back to me much about such things..yet it does talk.

In regards to higher self and lower self, we might think in those terms for simplicity of communication. You and I usually talk of the ego as the lower self, while we might call the ego the personality as well.

I believe personality is not the true eternal self, but an acquisition of the true self, or disc self could be pertaining to the Unlimited self. The creative Self. C1 refers to a limited type of focus. Limited, but not in a negative sense. If we're thinking of the purpose of living, or the meaning to be derived from a life, in order to accomplish any objective in life a certain narrowed viewpoint, a point of concentration is necessary. ELS is an objective oriented system, although the beginner here often complains the reverse, that they are subjected to the limited confines of the brain apparatus and collective society, which, such society you've noticed is also having a limited viewpoint.
the purpose and meaning even Monroe was not able to put sufficiently into words, of the graduates who came off this planet..only that they were satisfied, he implied.
Such satisfaction we might all wish as well..I simply call it attainment of a peace of mind which passes understanding because it is not accessible to intellectual debate or describable in language, such language can not achieve communication of what peace does and is, as a feeling, as it's a way of being rather than a feeling.

Focus is like being the probe of higher self, disc. we as our higher self plan with family members (disc selves) to play certain roles in a drama, then plunge into it and play it out, forgetting who we were before, often changing roles in subsequent lives to learn certain things in our evolvement back into our wholeness.  Karma or accepted belief patterns is not a penalty in the sense that nobody is forced into being a human passing here..but I know sometimes it can feel like we just entered the hot fires of hell..is the reason for suicide..I think in some cases, the cry for help went unanswered and these are not held in recrimination once they pass back to spirit. they are just shown what could have been done to avoid bailing out.

the part of me which did an impulsive deed to another, is a character flaw I had which I wished to rectify from another time period. I carried this part of me within my now identity, and so for simplicity, I must own this other me as a whole, complete personality/ego, otherwise I would not have been able to see her as somebody else who did the deed, as that would be then, not taking responsibility for my actions and shucking them off on some other person that I was.

You either did the deed, or you didn't do the deed. I was in error as I was too passionate in my love of the people. I also viewed several other lives where I defended people or ideals. I carried the same traits life to life. I was still not controlling my nature, and acted in reactionary terms, possessed by the familiar ego shortcomings.

so we might say the incarnating is to learn to control one's reactionary propensity, where physical harm is done to another, even if shooting someone just to watch them die, seems like fun. you pay the price sooner or later.
the irony is that the other party whom was the victim, and yourself agree to come back and play a different role in order to learn to control the passions and get back to the love part. For these victims, they are agreed in the plot beforehand of what might take place for them, if they are not doing right by others and also causing their own demise, or that possibility..for nothing is absolute in the plan..it's lets jump in and try to stick to the plan of waking up here, but we are going to have to ask for assistance to totally wake up, as evidenced violence is still seen as a solution today.

the simple viewpoint is for me to not make it complicated with the way a singular ego can continue to question and yet never be satisfied until it finally gains it's own communication with source which automatically makes it quiet down.
communication with Source is the very essence of being loved and of joining as this Love which only welcomes even the worst of us, as we perceive ourselves as being "bad."
there has never been a word to replace the meaning of grace descending. and on the just and unjust.

the main benefit to viewing other lives and dealing with that, is the appreciation gained for that particular life, for each ego and personality, as I see it, is continuing within it's own dimension of actuality, and yet as part of the total disc, and all are mine, all are my unlimited being.

this appreciation promotes one to a wish to promote others in their struggle to understand, we are all one, and we are the essence of Love.