thistle wrote on May 20^th, 2008 at 4:31pm:

I relate well with Shss too Michelle. my belief is that everything is a belief.and that beliefs change as we go along. I see the imagination as a very creative aspect of ourselves. if you cannot imagine something, it simply cannot happen.
U could look at it that we are fragments of God. Some books say we are gods. a good friend of mine (nobody on this board) says he is god and that he is invulnerable. I think I love him but perhaps, in the end, even he will be forced to admit he did not create himself, therefore something else created him, unless we believe in accidents of creation.

I used all 5 senses in dreams too, then I don't consider that a dream. the way we establish that it's real is through the 5 senses, but there's also a 6th sense, the 3rd eye so called, that has atrophied and is now being re-worked to health again. my belief again, but I do a lot studies, I don't have a job, I just study all day. I think we are here to first dream it, then create it.
as best as I can determine, if you don't have a dream, u start to go onto the death transistion, where it can seem like more dreaming is taking place, but if we wake up first here, we are surely awakened already on the nonphysical level.

well, lol, you somebody I'm glad to talk to!   and surely more than 3 ounces of minerals, what the body can be reduced to.

Hi Ian, there is a time though, and you have probably stumbled upon this state of mind occassionally, from what I've read of your posts, where your subconscious beliefs are exposed into the conscious, and in that moment you can dialogue with yourself.
What has worked for me, it's not so much dropping the belief or resisting it, as it is an inner dialogue with the belief itself.  Just the awareness that I now know I have believed that was true, is enough to decide not to believe it anymore, if it has not done anything for my welfare. So I will say, "thank you for your service to me, now I am going to retire you."

this way you are not resisting your belief or making yourself fearful to fight it. Just a simple I choose to believe something else now.
I don't think we are the sum total of what we believe. I don't think we are our emotions either. the emotions of perhaps negative, they are not our being either.
they are bodies the soul essence uses to gather experience with.

there will come a time you will feel greater life force within, but it has nothing to do with feeling love all the time, rather it's a lack of negativity life force, so there is only livliness, or life abundant, vitality.

but before this occurs theres a period of observing yourself on the hour. You can do this exercise to become more aware of the life force within you, the vital you, by every hour stopping what you are doing for just a second and asking yourself "How am I feeling this very moment?"

whether it's nervous, happy, sad, worried, preoccupied, wishful, theres many little emotions to become aware which one is active. watch yourself, how one time you feel good, then something happens to ruin the feeling. then just be aware of how you buzz throughout the day.

after some practice, some are quicker to get it than others, your subconscious begins to feed your belief systems into the conscious and you begin to choose your reality rather than feel as if you are a programmed brain, has to act from a program. you don't. self expression will become freer.

a lot of people don't know this, but happiness is merely a choice. it basically has not much to do with what's happening in the world externally.

I have faith in you, if that helps, you have a fine mind, it's just that right now many of us are being given information overload with the energies upon the Earth, forcing us to grow into fuller expressions of our true selves. It's the shift in consciousness I like to call it, and when the going gets tough, the tough get going. I guess that's about it in a nutshell! love to you, you've already started your journey.

Thistle.,

Quote:


Yes but this level is our "wake reality" and  to higher or lower monads  of other dimensions we are just a "vague,dream" from their awake realities, as they are  to us. We meet them in our dream state as they meet us in their dream states.

Gosh! I hope this makes some sense?

Alan

Alysia, Doc: I think we're basically in the same space. The wonder is how somehow individuality up to universality is a continuum with all points available to us as vantage points or views, separated only by a need to phase between the 'dreamlike' states Alan refers to. There's even signs that with practice even phasing eventually becomes unnecessary, that we can somehow almost simultaneously rest a little of our awareness in each. That there is no separation between them in say the way that there apparently is between locations and individuals in the physical.

It's  you suggest the going inwards and opening (you could say progressively dropping our limiting beliefs) that successively opens up these views to us. Like peeling an onion, but with the extra that each opening enables access to more of our limiting beliefs which when resolved enable further access in the way you describe.

I've indeed experienced a few quite profound incidences of resolving issues in this way Alysia, and a few more that seemed to slowly dissolve with coming to feel a lot better about my intrinsic worth (or love-abilty I guess).  There's probably quite a lot more to go however!

This I guess is what I was getting at - that while it's all eventually accessible and capable of being dropped, that until we develop this ability  we are stuck with our beliefs. Perhaps also that we may ultimately end up dropping rather more than we expect too.

I'd add two bits of experience to the mix. I've experienced a very beautiful timeless place Doc where even thought starts to fall away, that clearly delivers the impression that awareness and knowing are separate from the thinking mind. There's this non verbal knowing. My thoughts ran a commentary on this (asking and answering questions) which became more and more distant, less and less in my control and less and less significant until it felt like it was somebody else speaking out of earshot.

The pity is that I can't get there routinely - it happened at the end of a week's retreat.

Another experience which nicely illustrates the problems of moving between states had my grandfather (I somehow knew it was him) trying to make contact with me - to enter a lucid dream, presumably as a physical appearing entity. My perception  (which was probably just my conscious mind making something conceptually understandable out of what was going on) was like there was this flexible membrane separating us. I could sense his wish to get through, and I could 'see' (in a kind of a way) his pushing quite agitatedly against the back of the membrane. I couldn't help him through though, and he hadn't made it by the time I lost the view.

I guess Alysia the question of just how much is determined by our beliefs is as before dependent on answering your 'who am I' question. One possibility is that we create everything that's not the 'piece' of source/the absolute/primordial mind that choses to manifest - everything that's not permanent...

Like Vajra mentioned, in my experiences pure awareness is at a deeper level than thought. My perception of it is that thought is an action we are able to take out of an uprising of desire that moves out from awareness. Thought is essentially form though not as dense as the physical world objects around us.

Just as we interact with the physical world around us we also interact with the thought forms we create. Love and the ways we define this seems to be one of these states of consciousness where we can and do interact on higher levels of our being.

This is hard to describe, but my experience of pure awareness is silence and light. I am the awareness and I am me all at the same time. Thought and emotion arises from the "me" part of the awareness.

When I am not in the light, but can see it, such as a being of light, I feel the purest most intense love you can possibly imagine radiating from it. In this instance the love I feel is not coming from me, it is the being of light that is radiating it out.

Love, Kathy

Hi Ian, just taking your final statement that "who is the who that creates the temporary and insubstantial objectively oriented world we view"  hope I reworded your thought correctly, you could say we all as one created the temporary but not the eternal.

there are many meditation jump off spots..you could start one, on the idea that we are all One entity and all agreed physicality is Reality to the exclusion of a nonphysical world peopled with people who are not made of clay, but another substance less dense. but wait, haha! thats not what I wanted to say.

lol. I meant to say, yes, we are One, while our individual egos have the motive of dividing that oneness into segments, judgments, seeking the illusive grandiosity of it's individuality, perhaps without love, perhaps with love of a distorted nature.
Within this collective area, we agree on certain things..once we all agreed the world was flat. so that was reality..a limited reality. then someone said it was round. soon we all agreed, yes, we were wrong, it is indeed round. so we all share the truth, or we all share the limited view as our reality.

what happened was, if u can pick up on the most abstract talk probably on this board, is "We saw that we could give ourselves "time."  Linear time is a hard master unlike units of consciousness existing within a state of timelessness and eternal occupation.

within time is the growth of patience. Patience is a virtue it is said. Only on the earth could impatience be felt. Only on the Earth could a soul begin to own it's own self and develop presence, to become at one with the Now Moment, is what gaining presence means, as well to be in the present moment with what is happening now and our only choice, within free will is how we shall react to what is happening now, whether to contrive fearful thoughts, or rest in the trust that we are found, not lost. (not alone)

I was trying to get that idea across in my other post, of the power is possessed within the now moment and reality creating, is of a personal nature, which nonetheless effects the collective nature of reality producing, which rest on Oneness thoughts.
it appears we are focus points of attention. units of God. whatever you focus on comes into manifestation materially, and this is happening faster.

so we are careful what we focus on, as it takes only half the time to manifest it while before it took much time to do so.

Time, linear time is the illusion that we are stuck in it. We are not stuck in it. We play in it, we create in it, we can do what we want here, make love or make war and we do it all and we think it's real.
to get to the point where we see how much we lean on each other to make sense of it all, is the beginning of awakening. a cooperative effort is gathering on the Earth.
this is like PUL then. its a state of being, where we know then we do it together and it's much smoother then.

continuing with abstracts...it's like we are light bulbs, blinking in and out of true reality, when we blink off, we are unconscious; blink on and we're tuned into source. Linear time walk, physicality is this, the development to stay present and turned on increases with focus on only what is happening now and what our choices are in the single moment.
The sense of separation from others is what the ego builds on. If I get tuned in, I blink on, I feel at one with you. But if I listen to my ego it will say Ian needs fixing. I choose to stay tuned into the truth that as you said. We are in the same space, and there's plenty of space for all our friends here.
In the end, it looks tedious; only from the point of view of the ego, in that we are involved not so much in acts of good will, as we are involved in the undoing of our own internal conflicts, our errors of misperceiving others as not being our own selves.

thistle wrote on May 21^st, 2008 at 3:16am:


Hi Michele. I'm really glad u joined us as I've been logging dreams and obes for nearly all my life and enjoy talking about it. I think maybe I subconsciously asked for your presence here! 

I have experimented with various partners, either with mental telepathy, phasing, partnered exploration, dreams and full blown obes here and there.
My first full blown Obe at about 3 or 4 years of age.

Your question can be answered more fully in Bruce Moen's 5th book "Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook, A Manual for the Art of Retrieval & Afterlife Exploration.

Bruce visualized the creation of this board for people like you and me. Now and then I like to give him credit for bringing you to me because it's your questions help me grow too understand myself as well!
(I wrote a song once "A Love song is not a love song until I sing it to you.")

Moving right along, lol. There is a fine chapter in Bruce's books about Partnered Exploration, where people DO begin to realize we do meet up in dreams as well as learn to meet up while still in a waking consciousness. (telepathy, shared dreams)

When you do this upon finding a partner who's willing, it involves setting the intention in place to do it, and going for it bypassing the natural doubts in place surrounding the experiment as to personal ability. This involves going with the flow, trusting.

So I would advise not blowing off any dreams, but writing them down and exploring them, especially if someone you know is in that dream with you. What they other person will remember however, may be quite instructional to you, it is based on their own interpretive symbols that they will offer to you, most often some unconscious belief systems will arise in such an undertaking, revealing to you who they think you are, versus who you think you are.

All in all, it's great fun to Partner Explore, many surprising developments for reflection are there. My first partner, Linn, in Australia was of great value to my awakening process, that I carried an alter ego along with me on our first trip. an alter ego who felt unworthy of her love and attention.

I soon was able to merge my alter ego, not soon, but I now had the awareness of it in a conscious manner what I had to work with, a part of me I carried from my childhood. you could call it a belief system then that had to be integrated before further adventures could manifest, so not to confuse my friend!

This first PE took place with intention and then going to sleep, so was dream state. She emailed me she had met two of me. Both the dancer and the alter ego. The dancer was who I thought I was and she was the one I had intentionally projected over to Linn and so we had the knowledge that it was a shared vista, we had "met" in the same space of Mind.

I have too many examples of meeting with others out there, until one begins to question which reality is real, which is fabrication or wishful thinking? When the dreamworld or obe world becomes real, it sometimes produces a belief system crash, where you begin to feel quite crazy.

If this happens, ground yourself into life to get your bearings by attending lovingly to yourself and your family and friends; the crash will pass if you don't pick on yourself and just look at the fear, and know it's not real. Love is our essence. Truly though, an exploration partner can take you giant leaps into who and what we really are, and what we're doing here!