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Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook (Read 39778 times)
Touching Souls
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #15 - May 28th, 2006 at 12:35pm
 
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During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better. That's gotta be the worst of it. I just held on for the ride, hoping things would get better. It was such a gradual belief system crash that I didn't even realize it happening before it became fully blown. Now everything is great, and I couldn't be doing better.


Exactly!!!

And I too thought you were female, don't really know why. The main thing is that we both came through it all stronger than ever. Wink

Love, Mairlyn
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betson
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #16 - May 28th, 2006 at 1:39pm
 
Keeping in mind what you all are saying about belief system crashes, incl spooky's
"...When we consider we have many beliefs,
then they would be interconnected and
dependent on each other. Therefore, to become aware one of these beliefs is fouly, the whole system is about to crash...."

Could past personal crises be accounted for as belief system crashes?
I'm going to go back to some crisis time(s) in my life and make one of those 'sociograms' where you chart by writing the biggest thing/aspect in the center of paper, then spokes out to what related to that, then spokes out from each of those to what related to those, etc. The whole thing then looks like a complex atom or section of heaven filled with stars. The center topic in this case would be some big disappointment or big change that I was unaware might have been a belief system. 
Thanks for getting me thinking on this.
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blink
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #17 - May 28th, 2006 at 5:12pm
 
Belief system crash: I am in one, have been for probably a year or two.  My whole life is changing.  Stagnation to chaos to order and back again, back and forth, back and forth.

The things that I desired most in life are being arranged in an orderly way around me (independence, simplicity, love, creativity) but have come along with an almost unbearable intensity of activity and emotion which can be overwhelming, and new demands require me to respond no matter how flustered I might become at times. 

Let me just say: profound exhaustion.  Moments of extreme happiness.  Moments of utter confusion and distress. 

But I see that there is a greater purpose at work. This is not over yet! Sometimes it feels that I am responding very poorly to the stimuli around me, but that's how we stretch our spindly little wings, isn't it?

love, blink
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betson
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #18 - May 28th, 2006 at 7:12pm
 
blink's belief system crash:
And yet you've written some of the most focused and beautifully inspiring responses on these threads---how do you do that ?!  Shocked 
If you want a 'time out' from the changes, have you asked for it? Guidance has always seemed amenable to that.
You amaze me Kathy, and you have since I first came here. I always look for your entries because I know I'll learn and be inspired by your thoughts. I'm shocked and so sorry that you are having a crisis. Good Grief! as grandma used to say.
I'm going to go back to your responses say previous to the last year or so---were you even more profound before this period of being flustered and exhausted?
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
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blink
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #19 - May 28th, 2006 at 7:48pm
 
Hi bets,

Thank you for your sweet words here.  I do have to give Kathy her due, however, and mention that she is a different person, an amazingly gifted writer here.  Her words are always a gift.

I see all changes as an impetus to absorb, express, and find the deep creativity which resides inside of us.  I find no reason to complain to the powers that be anywhere.  I simply ask for their support and it is always given.  The most difficult circumstances can be  transformed into value.  This is always true.  Emotions are always useful and bring transformation, so I am grateful for them.  When we are tired we rest.  That is all that is necessary.

This world requires that we all transform our beliefs.  Some can do it now and others will do it later.  Every day I wake up and look out at the world and say, what next? We share our ups and downs, humans that we are.  Each one of us has our obstacles and our transformative journeys, don't we...each of us is on a journey.  And the days become shorter as we go along...Smiley

love to you, blink
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spooky2
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #20 - May 28th, 2006 at 9:38pm
 
Cosmic Ambitions (hey man!) wrote:
>>>During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better.<<<
That's true, had that too, and that's why a crisis can be such deep down. Sometimes I have this narrow feeling, things I have to do seem to hunt me and make me worry, my time seems to be such full. Then I notice this uncomfortable feeling is related to my habit to cut myself off from the future, like there is not enough time left for me. This again is throwing me on my presently tasks in such degree that I'm starting to get confused about it all and therefore have this narrow-feeling. When I then imaginate I have all time I want, like I would reach an age of some hundred years, or will ever be there, this narrowness will leave me. Suddenly there is this immense "the future is wide open" feeling, and if feels just wide and easy.
This never-get-better feeling also is related to retrievals. I met a couple of people who were stuck just this way- remaining, lingering, circling in the same situation without a way out to be seen by them. I'm always saying, no matter if one thinks retrievals are "real" or not, if you have experienced some, they tell you something. It's about to let the alarm bells ring when you find yourself in this "it never gets better" state and to try to remember the wide open future.

Betson, when you look at your sociogram(s), maybe you could translate them into beliefograms, that is you take the occurances and aspects and think about what beliefs they are representing. It's just another method of exploring the own history.

Blink, I like your posts, yesterday I thought you must be a very happy person (hmm, if "happy" is the right word, maybe "intensively smiling" is better) and hope I'm right with my thoughts, anyway, wish you could have a nice rest when you need to!

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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betson
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #21 - May 29th, 2006 at 7:33am
 
Apologies, blink,
for involving a wrong first name.  My comments are still meant for you---blink.  (I'll admit to lapses but not crossed wires.)
bets
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #22 - May 29th, 2006 at 9:29am
 
WHat about belief system crashes that don't resolve? I'm thinking now of the classic example. A young man gets drafted, gets sent to boot camp and roughed up, gets sent to war and witness or participates in or experiences events totally alien to the way he was brought up. Civility is suspended. The reality he grew up with literally does not exist where he is. He gets through it, comes out of the service, developes PTSD and spends his days in homeless veterans shelters. (All the symptoms listed are classic PTSD symptoms). There is no resolution to his belief system crash. Reality is neither what he thinks it was nor what most of us say it is.

So what does this mean? How can it be resolved?

(ps I hear that Gulf War and Af ghanistan vets are showing up in shelters but not yet Iraqi vets)

Reality is never what we think it is, is it? And all belief system crashes are little mini courses in this. Why are we so attached to our misconceptions about the nature of reality? But it starts early. We are rewarded by our parents for buying into the system. I could never figure out how to not suck my son into the system and still have him capable of survivng it. Now he's bought into it. He will have to experience his own belief system crashes to get out of it.

Even when I know intellectually something the system/culture thinks is important is ... un-real...I find I am emotionally embedded in the system and my intellect is inadequate to overcome that emotional entangling of tentacles the system places around me.

You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

(folk versions of the laws of thermodynamics).

I still suffer some effects from belief system crashes that happened years ago. Can't find how to get out of the game.

Now it is time for Alysia's favorite quotes...that I can't quite recall...nothing real can be challenged; nothing that can be challenged is real.

Love (PUL) is all there is.

I even see intellectually that that is the only thing that makes sense but I don't know how to live it.

We can all skip all the belief system crashes when we learn how to do that.

Why doesn't our system teach us this?
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #23 - May 29th, 2006 at 11:23am
 
These are big questions Lucy, and probably deserve their own threads .
I've erased my 3 attempts to respond so far.

When you say "why doesn't our system teach us these things" about PUL, does "our system" mean our system within or our way of outer life system, incl govt. and schools?

Soldiers' retrieval from PTSD might make another full thread.

Sorry I can't pull my thoughts together on this yet.
bets

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Touching Souls
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #24 - May 29th, 2006 at 12:17pm
 
Good questions Lucy. I don't have the answers. As Bets said, this probably needs it's own thread. Maybe when Bruce gets back he can help us with this.

I still have PTSD from the 28 years of abuse from my husband. Even though he's no longer here in the physical, other similar things can bring the same feelings/responses from me. This is something I need to work on, to totally release the fear caused by this. I thought I had, but things come up and I see I haven't.

I keep getting from guidance that we're here to release all this and to learn from it.

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #25 - May 30th, 2006 at 1:10am
 
hi, I'm back..have moved to CA. made it safely except for "check engine soon lite came on" and got a leaky shock.

sorry, u probably dont wanna know! Tongue 
Lucy, the quote goes "nothing real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists.

although you add a nice twist on it with the word challenge. I think theres a different meaning though. I think we can in a positive sense challenge ourselves more easy than to use the word to mean challenging someone else. at least thats how I look at that.  insofar as belief system crashes being hard or easy, I find myself involved in both kinds, and that we can suffer under allusions and not even know we are under an allusion. thats where the crash comes in. but we can make up our minds ahead of the crash, that rather than be mislead by our allusions we would rather suffer a crash and get it over with the more quickly, than to continue to have a programmed negative response due to something we used to believe.
although all beliefs are fine, just until they no longer suit our preferences.
yet Lucy, I know what you're thinking. or I think I know what your thinking!  I had an obe once with a friend and it started a two year gentle crash. meaning it took that long to figure myself out, as I held conflicting beliefs. it was gentle because I didn't have to think about it if I didn't want to. but I wanted to, as obes are never boring; they are so real you can't help but think about them alot. the main thing is to be kind to yourself when going thru one..the tendency is to judge yourself and thats where all the pain comes in. it also helps me to say "this too shall pass" or "how am I blocking myself from understanding this?" another thing that helped me in times like this is to realize the nature of having a single life here; its temporary, we are traveling thru; this is not our home in a permanent sense. and of course last but not least, I believe in guides, or guidance or higher self, or something which loves us so much that it would allow us to become separate from itself with that thing called free will. We used to call it God. thats out of style; lol. god is love though. and the way love works is, you give freedom to the beloved; the beloved flys; if the beloved comes back to you, it loves you, if it doesn't, maybe it needs to get a map to home; and maybe the map getting is what we do now.

hugs, alysia
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Cosmic_Ambitions
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #26 - May 30th, 2006 at 1:35am
 
Great words/wisdom Chuckles!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions
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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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LaughingRain
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #27 - May 30th, 2006 at 11:32am
 
Quote:
Great words/wisdom Chuckles!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions


Chuckles checking in here...say, Cosmic, you must give off a feminine vibe, I thought you were female too. maybe you're a balanced bloke.

well, my guides told me I was to become balanced both polarities this time around. I told them to put it where the sun doesn't shine. but it usually the case I do the listening, they do the talking and if I stop listening they stop talking..guess thats where the free will comes in, I can choose to listen.  Tongue

I better stop or I end up making a new topic in the wrong thread. cheers alysia
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Lucy
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #28 - May 31st, 2006 at 6:51am
 
Well, Mairlyn, that's interesting to think that one of the reasons we are here is to experience belief system crashes.


Although that encompasses everything from minor changes to major things like dealing with death, chaos, betrayal, physical violence...you know, the things that you aren't allowed to ignore when they happen...

It is kind of odd but trying to deal with this: "nothing unreal exists" has been kind of a belief system crash for me. I'm talking about more in high school/college years, long ago, when I felt and thought some of this stuff...it sort of came out of my own experiences, but there was no way to talk about it back then. Like, I didn't like to smoke pot because I got really analytical about the perception changes and I couldn't get ot that place where I knew "nothing unreal exists". It really felt like reality was warping to me then, and I couldn't explain it, and it frightened me. I don't think explanations based on changes in brain chemistry are adequate. You have to understand something about "we create our reality" in conjunction with "nothing unreal exists".

yeah our culture teaches us a way of life as though it is etched in stone...and I have this thing about that being a way to manipulate us...like the way the Catholic church told little children that priests were representatives of God and then when some of them turned out to be abusive, those abusive ones could use that belief system to abuse the children and get away with it, because even the adults wouldn't believe bad things about representatives of God.

I think it is really good that Bruce includes this because it obviously is part of the fabric of here, C1.
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #29 - May 31st, 2006 at 11:48pm
 
Hey Chuckles! Yes... I am physically/categorically identifiable via gender specific qualifications as "male". Maybe I can induce some stereotypical qualitative gender specific ideologies to humorously regulate this reasonable misconception. I can harvest a full beard (at will) and I wear men's cologne. LOL! Wink (Nothing against any males out there who don't! Lips Sealed)

All joking aside, I find it highly interesting that so many have targeted me as being of the female type gender. I haven't heard that from anyone before...

Lucy wrote:

"It is kind of odd but trying to deal with this: "nothing unreal exists" has been kind of a belief system crash for me. I'm talking about more in high school/college years..."

I can relate with you on this Lucy.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions



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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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