Hi Betson and all,

State-Specific Memory:
When I was young and silly (now I'm older and silly) I used to smoke pot a lot. I noticed everytime I started again smoking it, I remembered the thoughts of the last times I was on pot, like two consciousness threads, one on pot, the other clean. Unfortunately, I couldn't manage it to put these threads together so it was like two worlds which exclude each other (not fully, I wasn't in the psychiatry so far). This phenomenon (with pot) I've heard of other people too, and when I recall it right, also Bruce brought an example of that kind.
I use objects and surroundings as anchor points of getting in different states/locales of nonphysical activity (or imagination). I've learnt this through the TMI Gateway Voyage, so I use those Focus Levels. For each Focus Level I established a surrounding, a landscape, or just a grey, shady, windy place, or a special building and immediately the "level" feeling would occur already and also what I did before in these places, just like with my pot experiences, but the memory of this places I can better transfer to the other ones and to C1 than the thought threads on pot into those of cleanness.
This is much like Bruce describes how to remember dreams: Get a bit of them, a place, a person, a feeling, then the rest would come, because with an anchor point the whole would come back, as it seems to represent, or is tangled to some degree to the other things of the dream. I currently am reading McMoneagle, and in his Remote Viewing sessions he gets firstly an impression which he calls "gestalt", it is an overall impression, barely verbalizeable, ruling over the split details he would gather then, and toning and influencing their interpretation.
Also, sometimes I get a feeling, or a mood, and I remember then I had this before, may it dozens of years ago, and it would be the same feeling/mood, they would be the same experiences. Can't put it right in words, I would name it like "This autumn-stillness-thought-of-alchemy-heard-Peter-Gabriel's So-album". I remember usually strongest where I was and what I did when I established, means recognized and separated this feeling/mood/state for the first time.
So there is a state, which for me is a wholeness or gestalt which is not appropriate to tell in single details, then the memory that I was in this state before would appear, and with it memories, which finally would bring single details out of this wholeness/state, and not to forget for practical reasons, there are anchor points which are symbols (just any item could possibly serve as this) or density areas which are able to represent and therefore bring back the state.


Breathing I think sometimes can used as such an anchor point to get into a state one was before, like a ritual. But there's more to it. Breathing in my experience can be very effective for example in curing sickness or acute depression, when I feel I'm going to lose myself/feeling shattered. So I would say it is centering and self-empowering, activating and focusing. There are many theories behind it, but I'm not sure what's the right one. The sensation of a cool breeze, or opening at feet and top of the head I have also without doing the breathing, when I lay down it almost starts immediately. It's just training, getting used to it. I would very much recommend the beginner to try it.


The symptoms of belief-system-crashs Bruce told of gave me the opportunity to interprete such syndroms like depression new. This viewpoint is very interesting and constructive I found. It addresses that many people, brought to think they are "endogenic" depressive or otherwise insane and need some standard treatment, actually are going through a very personal period of changes, which, right understood, could be a very exciting and promising adventure. So instead of the view you are ill and must set back to functioning state, you would see the old is gone and the new not yet established, therefore the chaos, just like in puberty, so you could say I just need to be tough, look at what is gone and why, and what is the reality I tapped into and have to accept.

Spooky

Thanks Spooky and identcat!

Your sharing your experiences of these concepts helps others see the spiritual vitality in Bruce Moen's and Robert Monroe's thoughts. These ideas just keep on giving and giving! Thanks for giving yours and getting us started!

Interesting point Alysia, that in your case a belief system crash would have exhileration and a free-feeling as it's effect.
It seems as if you were somehow prepared for it, as if undercover your belief system had slowly changed and when it came into your consciousness at the occasion when you got rid of the old roles you could break free, while others would have the feeling they themselves, or their world would break apart, I guess that happens when it comes too suddenly and unprepared.
That you were able to have an OBE at that time maybe was because in this new state your "censor" hadn't settled already, was confused and off power temporary and you took the chance and lifted off!

Spooky

When I first read about belief system crashes, the very idea of them seemed so foreign to me and I was relieved that I'd never had one.

Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though.

I can't really say what finally started me healing but I do know that my guides and angels were helping me. Gradually, over time, I was able to start eating, little bits at a time.  I came back slowly, but I did come back and have found that I am now stronger than ever.

Just wanted you all to know how bad a belief system crash can be.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi Spooky,

All I can say about this is that when I moved to Oregon, nothing was as it was supposed to be. I'd had such high expectations of so many things. I'm not really wanting to go into any of it. After two months there, everything in my world just fell apart. It doesn't really matter to anyone what it was as it was very personal. All of my spiritual belief systems were involved. That's about all I can say.

Love, Mairlyn

Wow... I "really" liked reading your (Spooky's, Chuckles', Marilyn's) stories about belief system crashes!

Marilyn wrote:

"Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though. "

I went through the "same exact" thing Marilyn... I'm not just saying that either... I know exactly what you went through for I went through all of that as well. However, I lost 35 lbs... I couldn't sleep, eat, think... nothing. I had no emotions. As far as I was concerned I had already died. It felt like my soul was ripped from my heart. Luckily, my family was there to help pull me out of it. I didn't know what was wrong with me, I just couldn't muster the energy to feel anything/do anything. I was lost/confused/disoriented, and I got to the point in fact, where I just didn't care anymore. I felt alone. My family said that I was suffering from major depression. However, I began to understand/know/feel what it truly was... It was a belief system crash... Everything that I had ever thought, felt, knew was stripped away from me... I didn't know who I was, what my purpose was, or why I was even here. I was stripped away from myself. Then, things started to turn around. I found little "destiny trinkets" of knowledge that guided me through; directed me onto the right path. I began finding things left and right... running into people that inspired me... "I found this forum!" I had personal spiritual experiences. My life now is better than it ever has been. I feel stronger and more capable to handle what life throws at me now. I found PUL everywhere... I felt it for everything; in everything. I found a strong/meaningful belief system that I allow to grow/change/evolve with me... instead of one that is forced upon me; unchangeable. I am new, and with that everything becomes new. I would go through all of that again just to feel things that I can feel now. I find this comparable to passing on to the next life, and being born anew there. The feelings/emotions are going to be beyond the description of overwhelming... PUL bliss, so to speak.

Chuckles wrote:

"I think what I remember about dying, this belief system crash, was the exhileration the most...
check out this image..lol...at the speed of light your traveling up, up, up, so fast you cannot see anything..your arms are open wide extended up with you whole body..but u r not flying...some current has you in its embrace...something intelligent; something loving...u have no idea where its taking u..but really, you have no choice...you belong to it and theres no where else to go and the wonder and excitement is all that you feel. you might even hear a thousand voices celebrating with you, the way that you released your belief system. u ride at this incredible pace thinking don't let this ride be over too fast....finally it delivers you somewhere, right where u were supposed to be, where you can add your 2 cents and even be appreciated for it. then u get a sense that dying is the same as life, because theres a sun that rises on the other side too...always a new day, even in death.

and the current which was alive and knew me? I don't know what it was...some facet of god, giving me the biggest thrill ride I ever encountered just because. it might be the tunnel folks speak of in nde. but to me it throbbed with life. perhaps it was the wave of which we are all a part."

What you wrote here Chuckles truly touched my soul...

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi all,
after Cosmic Ambitions added her experience, we could state now that every significant crisis we went through makes us feel different, mostly stronger, grown, with a new approach, seeing things we just didn't perceived before. It feels as if we had become different persons then.

Then, it seems talking about a belief SYSTEM is worth to keep in mind. When we consider we have many beliefs, then they would be interconnected and dependent on each other. Therefore, to become aware one of these beliefs is fouly, the whole system is about to crash. That's why a relatively little occurance could have a great effect, in the way that it is difficult to notice a connection between that occurance and the crash.

Spooky