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Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook (Read 39791 times)
betson
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Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:29am
 
Greetings--
The Bruce Moen Book Club (BMBC) is about to start its 2nd review. The book we'll be covering now is Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook.

The format for the discussions has developed as this:
Approximately every week or longer, 2 or 3 discussion questions are offered that cover about 50 pages of the book.
Some questions get alot of discussion; some none; doesn't matter.
Readers also submit their own questions in reference to that section of the book or something that's come up in discussing that section.
When all that dies down, the next 50 or so pages is discussed.
Looking back over the first book, I think we've tried not to speak for the author, but rather to base our discussions on what the book's ideas have brought to each person--questions, experiences, more questions, etc.
More people drop in on these 'meetings' than speak up at them. Here's hoping that you'll join in !
--------

Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook (AKG)--Concepts of Consciousness--

"State-Specific Memory", as explained by Charles Tart, is involved in the success of our afterlife explorations. How would you explain what is meant by that and what experiences have you had that point out its importance?

Exercises to help afterlife explorers are a big part of this book.  Why are breathing exercises so important? When you do not use the breathing techniques, what have you experienced?

Belief-System Crashes are one of the less pleasant aspects of our explorations. Would you share with us how you experienced these--how many, how often, what symptoms, and how you overcame any negative side-effects?

Thanks in advance for your participation!
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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spooky2
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #1 - May 23rd, 2006 at 10:10pm
 
Hi Betson and all,

State-Specific Memory:
When I was young and silly (now I'm older and silly) I used to smoke pot a lot. I noticed everytime I started again smoking it, I remembered the thoughts of the last times I was on pot, like two consciousness threads, one on pot, the other clean. Unfortunately, I couldn't manage it to put these threads together so it was like two worlds which exclude each other (not fully, I wasn't in the psychiatry so far). This phenomenon (with pot) I've heard of other people too, and when I recall it right, also Bruce brought an example of that kind.
I use objects and surroundings as anchor points of getting in different states/locales of nonphysical activity (or imagination). I've learnt this through the TMI Gateway Voyage, so I use those Focus Levels. For each Focus Level I established a surrounding, a landscape, or just a grey, shady, windy place, or a special building and immediately the "level" feeling would occur already and also what I did before in these places, just like with my pot experiences, but the memory of this places I can better transfer to the other ones and to C1 than the thought threads on pot into those of cleanness.
This is much like Bruce describes how to remember dreams: Get a bit of them, a place, a person, a feeling, then the rest would come, because with an anchor point the whole would come back, as it seems to represent, or is tangled to some degree to the other things of the dream. I currently am reading McMoneagle, and in his Remote Viewing sessions he gets firstly an impression which he calls "gestalt", it is an overall impression, barely verbalizeable, ruling over the split details he would gather then, and toning and influencing their interpretation.
Also, sometimes I get a feeling, or a mood, and I remember then I had this before, may it dozens of years ago, and it would be the same feeling/mood, they would be the same experiences. Can't put it right in words, I would name it like "This autumn-stillness-thought-of-alchemy-heard-Peter-Gabriel's So-album". I remember usually strongest where I was and what I did when I established, means recognized and separated this feeling/mood/state for the first time.
So there is a state, which for me is a wholeness or gestalt which is not appropriate to tell in single details, then the memory that I was in this state before would appear, and with it memories, which finally would bring single details out of this wholeness/state, and not to forget for practical reasons, there are anchor points which are symbols (just any item could possibly serve as this) or density areas which are able to represent and therefore bring back the state.


Breathing I think sometimes can used as such an anchor point to get into a state one was before, like a ritual. But there's more to it. Breathing in my experience can be very effective for example in curing sickness or acute depression, when I feel I'm going to lose myself/feeling shattered. So I would say it is centering and self-empowering, activating and focusing. There are many theories behind it, but I'm not sure what's the right one. The sensation of a cool breeze, or opening at feet and top of the head I have also without doing the breathing, when I lay down it almost starts immediately. It's just training, getting used to it. I would very much recommend the beginner to try it.


The symptoms of belief-system-crashs Bruce told of gave me the opportunity to interprete such syndroms like depression new. This viewpoint is very interesting and constructive I found. It addresses that many people, brought to think they are "endogenic" depressive or otherwise insane and need some standard treatment, actually are going through a very personal period of changes, which, right understood, could be a very exciting and promising adventure. So instead of the view you are ill and must set back to functioning state, you would see the old is gone and the new not yet established, therefore the chaos, just like in puberty, so you could say I just need to be tough, look at what is gone and why, and what is the reality I tapped into and have to accept.

Spooky
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identcat
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #2 - May 23rd, 2006 at 11:15pm
 
I have just recently tapped into my State Specific Memory to recall the "wave".  Like Bob Monroe, I too had experienced being in the "wave", but the problem is--- I was between the ages of 5 and 8 when I had the "vision".  This past weekend, I decided to tap into my State-Specific Memory and reflect back into that memory bank or storage area of my memory in my mind to "feel" what I could remember.  My wave is a 3D grey area with swirls of waves, one atop the other.  If you have seen Disney's 3 Caballaros, there is a scene where the musical notes are floating on the bars of the note pad (I can't recall the name of the paper that is used to write the musical notes).  My wave scrolls either from left to right and/or right to left with a smooth, soothing motion.  It bring me to another dimention. I am aware of other "persons" floating in the wave with me. I am aware of some sort of housing structures and walls. There is a grassing knoll with flowers below. The persons I see all are in color, just my wave is a transparent 3D grey.  I am gleeful and enjoy the ride.
It seems to me that when I look into a hole in the wall of the structure, I am able to see beams of light--- golden and white light.   I feel love and comfort.  No fear.
That is the recall of my wave in my state-specific memory.  Love and Light--- cat
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betson
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #3 - May 24th, 2006 at 8:47am
 
Thanks Spooky and identcat!

Your sharing your experiences of these concepts helps others see the spiritual vitality in Bruce Moen's and Robert Monroe's thoughts. These ideas just keep on giving and giving! Thanks for giving yours and getting us started!
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #4 - May 25th, 2006 at 2:25am
 
Belief-System Crashes are one of the less pleasant aspects of our explorations. Would you share with us how you experienced these--how many, how often, what symptoms, and how you overcame any negative side-effects?
_______

thanks Betson..reving up here..this is neat.
first I work similar way of Cat and Spooky and much enjoyed this kind of thread. I think I already said this..humans do repeat themselves..lol...ever notice that? I like the music notes image Cat floating up from the page. visuals do as much for us as does reading a written word or hearing a high flute note and suddenly you are obe.

a belief system crash I'm going to repeat here in different words as it was so spectacular it produced an obe. this just my 2 cents to this thread though, as I really want to hear what others say about belief system crashes. I did not find mine negative, but actually if produced a feeling of freedom from the belief system. the beliefs were all about what it means to be in the role of being a good daughter who takes care of the aging parent who has changed into a childlike person. so role reversal in a way. nobody will feel and have the same experience in a crash circumstance, so I will not make my point, but its good to try!
my ideas started to go crash boom bang about my mom and I's relationship and instead of my mother, I was her mother. and then finally we became universal roommates instead of these roles. then there was no expectations of role playing left. just a fresh start. I had no idea that I would go obe when i crashed. its like, I had this self image of daughtership. what that means. but when you move beyond roles you crash yourself. your identity changes. something died, but on the other side of death is freedom, so you see its not negative at all, and gives us a hint what it would be like to actually go thru a death experience and emerge on the other side of that. theres mini crashes all the time, we go thru where we feel something changed inside and now you're not the same person. but generally its subtle changes...a bunch of little changes can add up to a big change.

I think what I remember about dying, this belief system crash, was the exhileration the most...
check out this image..lol...at the speed of light your traveling up, up, up, so fast you cannot see anything..your arms are open wide extended up with you whole body..but u r not flying...some current has you in its embrace...something intelligent; something loving...u have no idea where its taking u..but really, you have no choice...you belong to it and theres no where else to go and the wonder and excitement is all that you feel. you might even hear a thousand voices celebrating with you, the way that you released your belief system. u ride at this incredible pace thinking don't let this ride be over too fast....finally it delivers you somewhere, right where u were supposed to be, where you can add your 2 cents and even be appreciated for it. then u get a sense that dying is the same as life, because theres a sun that rises on the other side too...always a new day, even in death.

and the current which was alive and knew me? I don't know what it was...some facet of god, giving me the biggest thrill ride I ever encountered just because. it might be the tunnel folks speak of in nde. but to me it throbbed with life. perhaps it was the wave of which we are all a part.

...
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spooky2
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #5 - May 25th, 2006 at 7:29pm
 
Interesting point Alysia, that in your case a belief system crash would have exhileration and a free-feeling as it's effect.
It seems as if you were somehow prepared for it, as if undercover your belief system had slowly changed and when it came into your consciousness at the occasion when you got rid of the old roles you could break free, while others would have the feeling they themselves, or their world would break apart, I guess that happens when it comes too suddenly and unprepared.
That you were able to have an OBE at that time maybe was because in this new state your "censor" hadn't settled already, was confused and off power temporary and you took the chance and lifted off!

Spooky
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #6 - May 25th, 2006 at 7:30pm
 
Laughing Rain--- you made me laugh!! Your 2 cents---my 2 cents!!  Well, we are up to 4 cents. Anyone want to make it a nickel??? LOL
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #7 - May 26th, 2006 at 5:03am
 
When I first read about belief system crashes, the very idea of them seemed so foreign to me and I was relieved that I'd never had one.

Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though.

I can't really say what finally started me healing but I do know that my guides and angels were helping me. Gradually, over time, I was able to start eating, little bits at a time.  I came back slowly, but I did come back and have found that I am now stronger than ever.

Just wanted you all to know how bad a belief system crash can be.

Love, Mairlyn
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spooky2
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #8 - May 26th, 2006 at 2:41pm
 
Hi Mairlyn,
have you been able to identify which parts of your belief system were fighting against each other, and which one you let go? And was there a special incidence that triggered the crash?

Spooky
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #9 - May 26th, 2006 at 3:44pm
 
Hi Spooky,

All I can say about this is that when I moved to Oregon, nothing was as it was supposed to be. I'd had such high expectations of so many things. I'm not really wanting to go into any of it. After two months there, everything in my world just fell apart. It doesn't really matter to anyone what it was as it was very personal. All of my spiritual belief systems were involved. That's about all I can say.

Love, Mairlyn
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #10 - May 26th, 2006 at 5:35pm
 
Hi Mairlyn, we don't need to go into details.

A possibility, maybe not fitting to you, more in general, might be that from time to time there is an attack of all-over-doubting, maybe caused by experiences which shows that something is actually totally different than what one had expected it to be. This then could cause a snowball effect, to put all the other beliefs in question and doubting them. Interesting is, after one has overcome this crisis, would the old belief system again be restored, maybe even more established than ever, or would it be modified? Is this a belief system crash in Bruce's sense at all?

Spooky
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #11 - May 27th, 2006 at 12:59am
 
Wow... I "really" liked reading your (Spooky's, Chuckles', Marilyn's) stories about belief system crashes!

Marilyn wrote:

"Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though. "

I went through the "same exact" thing Marilyn... I'm not just saying that either... I know exactly what you went through for I went through all of that as well. However, I lost 35 lbs... I couldn't sleep, eat, think... nothing. I had no emotions. As far as I was concerned I had already died. It felt like my soul was ripped from my heart. Luckily, my family was there to help pull me out of it. I didn't know what was wrong with me, I just couldn't muster the energy to feel anything/do anything. I was lost/confused/disoriented, and I got to the point in fact, where I just didn't care anymore. I felt alone. My family said that I was suffering from major depression. However, I began to understand/know/feel what it truly was... It was a belief system crash... Everything that I had ever thought, felt, knew was stripped away from me... I didn't know who I was, what my purpose was, or why I was even here. I was stripped away from myself. Then, things started to turn around. I found little "destiny trinkets" of knowledge that guided me through; directed me onto the right path. I began finding things left and right... running into people that inspired me... "I found this forum!" I had personal spiritual experiences. My life now is better than it ever has been. I feel stronger and more capable to handle what life throws at me now. I found PUL everywhere... I felt it for everything; in everything. I found a strong/meaningful belief system that I allow to grow/change/evolve with me... instead of one that is forced upon me; unchangeable. I am new, and with that everything becomes new. I would go through all of that again just to feel things that I can feel now. I find this comparable to passing on to the next life, and being born anew there. The feelings/emotions are going to be beyond the description of overwhelming... PUL bliss, so to speak.

Chuckles wrote:

"I think what I remember about dying, this belief system crash, was the exhileration the most...
check out this image..lol...at the speed of light your traveling up, up, up, so fast you cannot see anything..your arms are open wide extended up with you whole body..but u r not flying...some current has you in its embrace...something intelligent; something loving...u have no idea where its taking u..but really, you have no choice...you belong to it and theres no where else to go and the wonder and excitement is all that you feel. you might even hear a thousand voices celebrating with you, the way that you released your belief system. u ride at this incredible pace thinking don't let this ride be over too fast....finally it delivers you somewhere, right where u were supposed to be, where you can add your 2 cents and even be appreciated for it. then u get a sense that dying is the same as life, because theres a sun that rises on the other side too...always a new day, even in death.

and the current which was alive and knew me? I don't know what it was...some facet of god, giving me the biggest thrill ride I ever encountered just because. it might be the tunnel folks speak of in nde. but to me it throbbed with life. perhaps it was the wave of which we are all a part."

What you wrote here Chuckles truly touched my soul...

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions Smiley


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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #12 - May 27th, 2006 at 1:10pm
 
Wow CA, yes you did suffer the same as I did.  One thing I forgot to mention was the panic attacks along with everything else. Thank you so much for writing about your belief system crash. Thank God we both came out of this stronger than ever.Wink

And yes Spooky, I feel that this is exactly what Bruce talks about. It's not the same for everyone I'm sure. However, these two (CA's and mine) were probably the worse case scenario.

This is the first time I've ever talked about mine to anyone.

Much Love,
Mairlyn Wink
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #13 - May 27th, 2006 at 2:18pm
 
Hi all,
after Cosmic Ambitions added her experience, we could state now that every significant crisis we went through makes us feel different, mostly stronger, grown, with a new approach, seeing things we just didn't perceived before. It feels as if we had become different persons then.

Then, it seems talking about a belief SYSTEM is worth to keep in mind. When we consider we have many beliefs, then they would be interconnected and dependent on each other. Therefore, to become aware one of these beliefs is fouly, the whole system is about to crash. That's why a relatively little occurance could have a great effect, in the way that it is difficult to notice a connection between that occurance and the crash.

Spooky
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Re: Bruce Moen Bk Club--Afterlife Knowledge Guideb
Reply #14 - May 28th, 2006 at 12:22pm
 
Hey spooky, I think that you're right... "Crisis" does make us feel different afterwards. Mostly stronger, grown, with a new approach; seeing things we just didn't perceive before. During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better. That's gotta be the worst of it. I just held on for the ride, hoping things would get better. It was such a gradual belief system crash that I didn't even realize it happening before it became fully blown. Now everything is great, and I couldn't be doing better.

Spooky wrote:

"After Cosmic Ambitions added "her" experience..."

Sorry I didn't include my gender under my profile. But, I'm still not sure how... ??? --- For what it's worth... (And not much, when considering the prospects of what we all "really/truly" are.) I'm male. Wink

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions
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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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