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Question about the light (Read 12648 times)
Mr_Satan
Ex Member


Question about the light
Jan 24th, 2005 at 9:59pm
 
I have been lurking and reading here and other stuff for a long time.  I have tried a few meditational things.  The other day i did a meditation in an attempt to find the light.

Going into it, i did see the light.  I navigated around and between two objects to get to it.  It was a yellow white sea/river of light.  I stuck my feet in, then a little further.  Then i realised that to go in further, i would need to leave behind a lot of stuff, stuff like my ego.  

I also realised that everything else is dark/darkness/of the darkness.  By that, i mean the visible universe and it's creator/origin/or whatever caused it to exist.  I realised also, that this complex had come out of the light originally.  Not that the light had ejected it, but that it was not content to stay in the light.

You see, within the light is total peace/contentnment/rest/harmony.  What came out was a vibration, turbulence, discontent, ambition, or something like that.  And so, the light allowed it to leave.

My impression from this experience is that there is duality: The light, Everything else.  There may be one exception though, as i felt that my origin was the light and not from the other source.  That may apply to all humans.  Animal spirits?

Anyway, getting to my question, are there some here who have seen this light, the light? If so, where does it fit into your view?  What about the authority/power of/behind the universe?

Thanks.

Great discussion board, btw.
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freebird
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 10:20pm
 
I have not had an NDE.  However, I will share some thoughts.

Existing in some kind of nondescript, totally peaceful "nirvana" state of oneness in the Light sounds like it would be nice -- for a while (like a much needed vacation from reality), but not forever.  There are other states of being that are nice too, and more interesting. States of being where thought is possible, time and space do exist, there are more boundaries and distinctions, etc. There are plusses and minuses of each state, IMO.

Both the traditional Christian and Buddhist ideals of the afterlife just seem awfully dull, to me. On the one hand, spending an eternity as the exact same person, praying and worshipping all the time, never being able to sin or screw up or learn anymore; on the other hand, spending all eternity in some dreamy merger with the Cosmic Mind where you can't do any of the exciting and productive things you can do as a discrete entity.

Neither one is my cup of tea. Maybe both of them would be fine for a while, but not forever. Forever is a very long time. And yes, time is a valuable thing too. Without time, there could be no such thing as memory or anticipation, which also make existence richer and more interesting.

I guess I'm just a sucker for the lower levels of being, huh?  Grin

But, may I ask, what exactly is so much higher and better than actually being a real individual in a real universe with real space and time and all the glorious possibilities afforded by these distinctions? I'd say, to be without these things is in some sense a deprivation and reduction of creative potential. I think this is precisely why the universe was created -- because it creates more possibilities and makes things more interesting.

Being one with the Light, absorbed into the Light, is surely a very pleasant and healing experience, but it is not the end all and be all of existence.  If it were, then reality would be so much duller than what it actually is.  JMHO.

Freebird
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 11:40pm
 
I don't like the dualism in it.  The whole thing has complicated my previous view on things ???
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freebird
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #3 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 12:06am
 
Do you mean that your spiritual experience caused you to become aware of a troubling dualism, or are you referring to what I said that you don't like?

Either way, the whole issue of oneness versus dualism is a big one.  I know some people who go for more liberal views of spirituality tend to prefer oneness over duality, but I disagree with that.  I think oneness would get boring.  It would be a nice break from individual existence, but not something I would want forever.

My view is that God was One in the beginning, and the creation of the universe was God deciding to separate Oneself into various perspectives.  Each particle, each cell, each organism, each planet, etc. is a unique perspective on reality.  It's as if God has trillions and trillions of different eyeballs, all looking at things from a different viewpoint and experiencing reality in a different way.  The reason God did this is He got bored!  God created the universe and all its diversity of beings because God wanted to be creative.  And God wants us to be creative too, and develop the ability to manifest our own realities.  That's why as a Christian I believe we are all called to become children of God.  Jesus said, "Ye are gods."  The point being, we are offspring of the Creator and therefore we are little creators with divine potentials.  Every time we imagine or dream something, we are creating.  Every time we do something, we are creating even more.

All of this complicated stuff going on, this continual process of creation-within-creation, it is LIFE.  Life is good!  Smiley (at least that is true in the big picture).

Just being in some constant eternal state of nirvana doesn't hold much appeal for me.  Nor, apparently, did it for God, because if it did, God would not have created a universe and we would not be here wondering about it!  God just would have continued existing in Oneness with no duality.  There would be no happiness, sadness, joy, pain, good, evil, or all the diverse experiences that a universe with many individual entities all interacting with each other can offer.  There would only be primordial, undifferentiated, unjudgmental Being.  There still is, and it is the Light.  It is perfect Peace.  But that is not all there is.

Enjoy the quietude of the Light, but also live richly.  I think that's what God does, from the look and feel of His universe.

Freebird
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #4 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 4:13pm
 
I have read all of robert munro's books, most of bruce's books, tried a few hemisync tapes.  I'm glad to finally be able to share something  Smiley Smiley

It brought up a few questions.  That is something i hope y'all can help me out with a bit.

MS
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Berserk
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 4:59pm
 
Dear Freebird,

The Bible implies that God creates to espand His horizons in ways beyond our understanding.  In some sense, His creatures make a contribution to what and how God is.  But to say that God creates anew out of "boredom" seems far too anthropomorphic.  Nor should we claim that God "needs" us and "needs" His creation.  The conventional meaning of the word "need" implies divine insecurity and loneliness.
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freebird
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #6 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 5:38pm
 
Quote:
Dear Freebird,

The Bible implies that God creates to espand His horizons in ways beyond our understanding.  In some sense, His creatures make a contribution to what and how God is.  But to say that God creates anew out of "boredom" seems far too anthropomorphic.  Nor should we claim that God "needs" us and "needs" His creation.  The conventional meaning of the word "need" implies divine insecurity and loneliness.


First of all, I was only sharing some thoughts and speculations, not trying to expound on doctrinal truths.

Secondly, the Bible is full of anthropomorphic characterizations of God.  He is a He.  He is Judge, Savior, Lord, Father, and even a Husband to His wife (Israel).  There are surely other examples I'm not thinking of right now.  The Bible also shows God having a full spectrum of human emotions, including love, anger, compassion, vengeance, etc.  Why not boredom or excitement?  Who knows?

I didn't mean to imply that God was inadequate by Himself or that he truly needs anyone or anything.  But I do think God very much enjoys having a creation, which is why he created.  In Genesis, whenever God created something it says "He saw that it was good."

Freebird
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #7 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 5:52pm
 
I prefer hearing first hand accounts or first hand observations or views based on first hand experiences.  Thanks.

MS
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Tim Furneaux
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 6:52pm
 
Hello Mr. S, just read your initial post to this thread, interesting, wondering about more details of the experience.... You say you navigated around and between 2 objects to get to the 'river of light'.  What are the objects? What's your sense of them? How did it feel to move around/between them?  What other details do you remember from the experience? Reading your post, it seems like there was more...or perhaps it's hard to remember...  Your post is very interesting to me.    Tim
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 7:29pm
 
Tim

Yes, there is more.  To get to the light it was like pushing between, for example scrubby trees that are close together.  I felt like the way through to there was close.  On the right was a large dark blueish sphere type thing, w a very dark blueish aura.  On the left a brown branchey type thing, w a dark brown aura.

Later, after i withdrew from all this, being back at my home base, so to speak, within this universe, i fealt the authority of this unverse descending a connection towards me.  I may have overreacted, but i did not want this over me.  So, i blasted the connection with a pillar of fire, burning it up as far as i was able.  I felt a freedom afterwards, but also fear that i may have ticked off the powers under which i live in this universe.

MS
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Tim Furneaux
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #10 - Jan 26th, 2005 at 10:28am
 
    It's interesting to me because it sounds like a primordial experience; though your reactions may be governed by belief, the 'place' you visited doesn't sound like a belief-system.  Somehow it reminds me of Bruce's  visual image of the Disc  that is on this site....Friend, I have no experience of what you explored. I could easily philosophize about it;  you'd still have to find your own answers.  If you got there once, you may be able to get there twice. Perhaps you could ask questions while in that space. I would be interested in hearing about any further explorations...About the experience having 'complicated my previous view of things';  that is something I most definitely relate to.  Bruce talks about 'Belief System Crash' and the resulting disorientation.  This is most definitely, however uncomfortable, a place of growth..... Anyone have any ideas for our friend Mr. S ?                  Tim 
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #11 - Jan 26th, 2005 at 6:27pm
 
Yes, i wonder if the light i saw is outside of the universe and multiverse.  Are the belief systems in the universe or alternate universes?
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #12 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 5:28pm
 
In regression work it seems as if "the Light" IS the universe, the collective creative essence. To get more into it, lose the sense of being an individual (the duality) and become one with it. Edgar Cayce saw people as litrtle bits of light that took on personal attitudes, creating a pseudo-dualism by becoming individuals, but that vanishes when they die and become One again.
- dave
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freebird
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #13 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 8:54pm
 
Quote:
In regression work it seems as if "the Light" IS the universe, the collective creative essence. To get more into it, lose the sense of being an individual (the duality) and become one with it. Edgar Cayce saw people as litrtle bits of light that took on personal attitudes, creating a pseudo-dualism by becoming individuals, but that vanishes when they die and become One again.
- dave


I hope Cayce is wrong about this.  I thought that individual souls are enabled to progress and grow in the afterlife, not merge back into the primordial Oneness.  It seems to me that creation of various individual entities who may interact with one another allows for more possibilities and an expansion of consciousness.  Perhaps this is indeed a pseudo-dualism, because ultimately we are all emanations from the Light and connected with one another, but it was done by the Light/God for a reason -- to create, to be creative.  If we merge back into the Light at death rather than remaining individuals, then this eliminates our creative potential and reduces the creative potential of the universe as a whole.  What would be the benefit of that?  It sounds like just another euphamism for oblivion to me.  If there is truly an afterlife, then it must be something other than oblivion for the individual.  Otherwise all the lessons we learned here on earth would be for naught and go to waste when we die/merge into the Light.

Freebird
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Mr_Satan
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Re: Question about the light
Reply #14 - Jan 30th, 2005 at 10:26pm
 
Extinguishing the ego and merging back into primordial light seems to be way down the road somewhere.  Either robert bruce or bruce moen, or somewhere on this site was recounted the story of discs winking out once they had finished sending probes and recieving them back again.  Perhaps the discs merge into their upstream discs.  Perhaps remerging into the light takes place when all discs have finished their works.  Just making a guess. Smiley

Maybe there is more than one percieved dualism.  The dualism that i saw was between the material universe, it's powers ,etc and the light.  We as spirits, are of the light.  As such, by extension, there may be a type of dualism between spirit and the universe.  Yet, many people feel at one w the universe.  My head hurts Shocked Shocked Shocked 

MS
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