I believe that hypnosis is not a trustworthy way to find out info about the aferlife.

What people such as Shakuntala Modi, Michael Newton, Dolores Clairborn, Brian Weiss and Edith Fiore have found out while hypnotizing their clients, is quite contradictory. Newton speaks as if everything is peaches and cream in the afterlife, Modi found quite differently. Newton says there are no evil beings at all and that possession doesn't take place, while Modi says that Satan and Lucifer both exist as distinct beings, there are many demons, and that many people become possessed. She also says things such as "angels have wings." I've found that each hypnotist has found things that don't seem true.

Fairly frequently their hypnotic sessions lead to their client channeling some being. Sometimes such channeled beings contradict other channeled beings, even when the same hypnotist is involved.

False memories can be created.

A client is quite open to suggestion, and might pick up on the therapists thoughts at a sub-conscious level.

For what it is worth, my guidance has warned me to be weary of hypnotists (on more than one occasion). One time I was meditating and wondering about hypnotism as a source of information, and I found myself in a room (non-physically) that was filled with people, and at the front of the room was a hypnotist that was misleading the people in the room. This experience came with the sense that sometimes hypnotists mislead people quite a bit.

Each hypnotist will in some way say, "my method of hypnotism is a trustworthy way to obtain information."


http://nondualityisdualistic.com/a-night-in-heaven/chapter-13/


rondele wrote on Mar 27^th, 2018 at 12:45pm:

John Ells wrote on Mar 28^th, 2018 at 12:30pm:


John ...

First, I honestly don't care about your instructions or corrections to me about Gateway and/or now Bruce's work.

My experience with Gateway does seem much different than yours. I have never been to TMI myself, but by simply using the Gateway freebies (recordings and instructions) on the website and Internet, I got results using Gateway materials which were supportive of non-physical experiences. My specific experience is that even these minor or partial Gateway materials (e.g., the freebies) were enough to begin with something beyond trance.

I do not know what you are doing with the Gateway Program materials which you have purchased. However, I can share that an online friend had the Gateway CD1. She was not able to manifest an OBE over a period of trying all sorts of stuff. I told her, since she had the Gateway CD1, that I would walk through her learning process of CD1 with her, step by step (e.g., because she could not in the past complete that on her own). As a working mom, she had only Saturdays available for practicing. So, I walked her through the materials (e.g., by finding a copy of the Gateway manual online) based on my own OBE's. In less than a month, she was successfully manifesting her own non-physical experiences.

So from my friend's OBE experiences and mine, I know that the Gateway program (even a partial version of the program like CD1) is more than merely hypnosis. It works (e.g., it is enough) to achieve or enter various focus levels of consciousness (e.g., as established by Monroe and friends). And it clearly teaches and provides much more than hypnosis (e.g., breathing, energy work, attaining various focus states, intention setting, and more).

So, no matter how you now might parse or justify your original statement about Gateway being merely hypnosis, I cannot agree with you. That is not my experience.

ST wrote:

John ...

First, I honestly don't care about your instructions or corrections to me about Gateway and/or now Bruce's work.

ST, Et al.
    My...the Newton and John bashing!
    In reference to the above, I fail to see how or where I have been "instructing" you in any way.  If by "corrections" you mean my quoted "don't misunderstand;" then you've never felt the need to clarify yourself for possible misinterpretation?  Did you bother to read the rest of that post?  If you had, you'd have seen that I was agreeing with you about Gateway - after a point of course (more on that later).  In a later post, you also chime again with, "So, no matter how you now might parse or justify your original statement about Gateway being merely hypnosis, I cannot agree with you. That is not my experience."  Again, that was not my complete statement.  I do not mind elaboration, just ask.
    You ask what am I doing with the Gateway Program materials.  I've been using them for a little while now, although I was having OBEs for a time before Gateway came about I think - - a side effect of meditation for me.  I found Monroe's book (Journeys OOB - a blue hardback) when it first came out around the middle '70s.  I was thrilled at the time because my experiences mirrored his in most ways - - in that book anyway.  I loved that book, and it's still my favorite!  The Gateway CDs have been very helpful for perspective, but I actually hope to make it to TMI one day soon for the residential program. 
    Did in the earlier post, "We'll have to agree to disagree then," put you off?  Apparently, "All of Monroe's verbals, with the assistance of binaural beats, is basically trance induction," did too no doubt.
    First, if you didn't know, the statement in the first sentence is very common in disagreements between gentlemen in different circles.  It only signifies an impasse - - nothing more, nothing less.  Nothing personal.  People disagree all the time.
    The second sentence, and any other references in this regard, is not only based on my own experiences with hypnosis, but also based on a very good article published at TMI called Hemisync, Hypnosis, and how the mind works.
https://www.monroeinstitute.org/article/3700, if you care to read it.  It's a very good article, and at the risk of being accused of "instructing" anyone, I'll just say it describes the similarities of Hemisync and hypnosis as being objectively and subjectively very close in their inductions of trance and altered states.  I'm sure you'll draw your own conclusions, however.
    As far as my comments on "now Bruce's work," maybe it's the "takes some imagination to light the fires, so-to-speak?"  Or is it that his work "reminded me of Shamanism" that bothered you?  I do admit that I improvised just a tad with using "light the fires."   I was looking for "prime the pump," at the time.  Silly me for carelessly paraphrasing.  Anyway, Bruce wrote some on this in both his first (or) second book, and his guide book - - it actually cleared a lot of things up for me.   About my Bruce's work and Shamanism similarity comment, there certainly wasn't any disrespect towards Bruce with that.  Actually,  Shamanic drum beats have been used to create the same sorts of frequencies in the brain as those produced by Hemisync for a very long time; however, the beats are monaural instead of binaural--but very effective.  You don't even need headphones!  The retrievals done by Shamans - - even the earliest Shamans in history - - and those retievals done by Bruce are not (at all) dissimilar.  I do find this interesting, but that's just me.  If anyone wants, I can suggest further reading on this, but only if you're interested.
     With all that said, however, I seem to feel something much deeper going on here - - but I'm not going there.  In any case, if you, and others, do not like what I might say, might suggest, point to, etc., you really don't have to pay any attention to me whatsoever on a Forum such as this. If I offend anyone's beliefs, opinions, religion, inclinations, or experiences (which I don't think I have, but if so I sincerely apologize), I'm sure our gracious Moderator can effectively boot me from this Forum.  But I expect equal footing.  One does not have to post derogatory comments or opinions on what another might feel is revalent just to make some point.  Just because something hasn't been one person's experience doesn't mean it hasn't been someone else's.

Hi John Ells,

No one needs the boot. 

I myself was going to post that I disagreed that hemi-sync is merely hypnosis but then I thought twice about it only because I don't scientifically know enough about hypnosis to talk in depth about it.  I agree that hemi-sync does the same thing, leads one into a trance state because that's its intended use... an altered state other than waking consciousness.  Thanks for posting a TMI link talking about it.  I'm interested in reading that.

And I am actually interested in the retrievals done by the shamans.  What books do you suggest?  I never realized it before you mentioned it, about the use of drum beats to produce the same altered state effect.  I had to empty out my storage unit these past few days, and I have been going through boxes of things I haven't seen in as much as a couple decades.  One of them was a cassette tape a pen pal had given me of this kind of drumming.  If I can find something to play it on, ha ha (I do have a cassette player!) it would be fun to listen to it again.  I remember at the time he gave me the tape (way back then) I thought what a weird thing to do, listen to drumming for meditation??  How bizarre.   

Yes drumming has long been used to facilitate trance states (no citation). A bit hard to explain, a lot easier to experience. The shift in conscious awareness occurs when one's perspective moves from linear time to No Time - where all occurs from a single point.

I see it as training wheels. Once you get it, you get it is my experience. At some point it becomes as easy to shift without assistance. A very simple matter made harder by the belief that it cannot be achieved without outside action. There is no outside outside ..... 

My own Gateway recordings were on <gasp> cassette tape. May as well been player piano roll, it seems so long ago. I don't recall which is what any more but do recall there was one at the very end I got a lot of use from. Free Form or something like that.

Personally I found Bruce's Workbook recordings much more helpful at the time.

I can still hear Bruce's voice and Robert Monroe's voice quite clearly in my head.

My personal discovery after (successfully) completing the series was how the expectations of front-loading made the work. I mean, I was really excited to do the material, and when I found I'd mastered it I realized how unnecessary it all was (to me). I'd been doing it on my own without any books or guides for so long I didn't realize I held mastery before I started the series. Or to put it another way, personally I found the material to be ultimately detrimental to my goals because I was given to believe it was something I needed to learn. This was the impediment. I didn't need to learn how because I already knew how and held mastery before I started.

Upon much consideration and a couple edits (please disregard earlier versions), here is my best shot at communicating the experiences I hold with the TMI / Bruce / Other Similar Resource material:

Imagine coming across a course of study called: Becoming Awareness. We are awareness. Purchasing and using a Becoming Awareness course front loads an agreement we are not fully aware of our awareness that we are awareness.

What such a study may facilitate is our remembrance that we are awareness. Because, you know, that how we come into this world: we are taught that we must be taught. It may be the Becoming Awareness study triggers the remembrance of the full breadth of our Being.

The self-delusion of buying into the need to study something we don't believe we already hold becomes a barrier to achieving what we wish to experience.

Did the course material I undertook aid me? Um. It's a trick question. I didn't understand I didn't need the course material until I took the course. So in a way it helped when I fully remembered.

Hi John

My copy of AKG was from the first printing, so it came with the CD.

My current understanding is records are now back in demand. Vinyl. I owned a pretty sharp turntable "in the day".

Among one of the crowds I hang with (bass players), analog amplification is considered the holy grail of quality sound. Talking tube amplifiers that weigh 90+ pounds. A light, "portable" tube bass amp of a mere 50 watts rings in at 20 pounds. The larger view among bass purists is nothing less than a full tube rig with a 130+ pound speaker cab is the ideal.

All well and good if you have roadies. A large number of us downsize, if for no other reason, load-out. That is tearing down and carrying your rig to your car/van at whatever o'clock when the gig ends. And stairs. And rain. And room on stage. And age.

In the 70s it was all about hi-fi and now everyone wants that lo-fi 60s sound. In a way, I bought into that too, for this month I receive a bespoke bass that is created to make that mid-60s "thud" we associate with The Animals. My working bass of 39 years is hi-fi and I play a hi-fi rig. I can dial out the hi-fi to lo-fi, but I can't dial in hi-fi from lo-fi. Now I'll have both. Right tools for the job and all that.

As for me and records, CDs and such, I probably don't have the discerning ears I once had. A lifetime of wear and tear took its toll on things. And I'm happy not to move boxes and boxes of records.

Also personally fond of drums and drumming, but I would be then, wouldn't I? Because my job is a rhythmic conversation with harmonic articulation.

To me the coolest percussion instrument is the berimbau. It's like a bow with a cup at your belly that you strike. The pitch changes as you change the tension. It's very shamanic and has seen some inroads in some modern musical genres. But yeah, I love me some drumz. Because, as I noted elsewhere, I'm a drummer's metronome .....

I dig getting into the Zone