Vicky wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 9:26am:


Anyone without a hang up about beliefs can read my above posts on this thread and see that I am not talking about the kind of beliefs that Vicky the moderator says I am talking about.

Vicky, you have little idea what beliefs are and how the mind works. But that is not unusual. It is not common knowledge. But you should at least be aware that you don't know, for ignorance that believes it knows is foolishness.

By the way, there is a significant difference between imagination and awareness. One should be able to differentiate between those two. That is basic.

Would-be “Afterlife Explorers”, depending on their degree of seriousness, aught to have knowledge of how the mind works.

Would you drive deep into unexplored territory with none or only basic knowledge of how a motor vehicle works? If you were sensible, then of course you would not do that. You would ensure you knew mechanics first, and make sure you know how to rectify mechanical problems. 

If you don’t know the mechanics of how the human mind works, its component parts, what they do and how they interact, then how can you rightly use your mind, even mundanely, let alone rightly use it as a vehicle in which to venture into unknown worlds more confusing than this world? The answer is you cannot do it. You will get lost, bogged, stuck or break down at the first test, and probably not even know what has happened.

And if you have no idea how to navigate by nature and landmarks then how will you find your way? How will you even know if you are travelling in circles? You won’t know.

Here is an introduction into values and beliefs, which some readers might find useful. It follows on from my previous posts on this thread:

Values

All things conceived of have value to the individual, and are arranged in the individual’s spectrum of values from highest to lowest value. We have our ideal values and our operative values. Our ideal values are those we cite when asked what our values are. (Even rotten people cite good values like honesty and family, but they do not operate by them.) Our operative values are those we function by, those that drive our automatic thinking and behaviour.

Our value spectrum is in a constant state of rearrangement and development, governed by our judgement. We have conflicting values, that is, different items of the same value but on different spectrum fragments, which we must subject to our judgement and make a choice between those items, and so our spectrum develops, slowly over time and trial to become unified and reflective of reality.

Few people value truth above all else. Most have preference which is a barrier to truth. Most people value feeling good above all else. Most people value emotion over truth.
    
Beliefs

Included among values are beliefs. Beliefs are unknown convictions. Beliefs can be imprisoning or liberating, depending on the kind of belief.

There is rational open and liberating belief such as the belief that there exists unknown truth (which is the belief I described in the previous posts which opens and readies the mind for truth), and the rational belief that oneself exists; and there are irrational closed and imprisoning beliefs such as a belief in a particular limited truth.

And there are static beliefs that are closed particular beliefs about oneself and/or about others, about surroundings and circumstances; and there are dynamic beliefs (delusions of change, transition, events) that automatically arise within the individual to reconcile differences between two or more static beliefs or between static beliefs and reality.

Static beliefs are like protrusions on the mind, and as the mind does not like protrusion on itself there naturally arises between such protrusions dynamic beliefs to fill the spaces between static beliefs and thereby round itself out. Like scar tissue forms to heal a wound, dynamic beliefs arise to fill the gaps between static beliefs so that the mind can cycle itself without having to stop at the gaps.   

People on this forum talk about their familiarity with Robert Monroe and his work including binaural beats – binaural beats demonstrate how the sound of a note (an audible thought) automatically arises within the mind to reconcile the difference between two other sounds/thoughts – and yet people who claim to understand binaural beats fail to see the significance of that natural and automatic mental process.

You fail to see how your own static beliefs about yourself and about reality, your own protrusions on your mind, cause your mind to automatically generate dynamic delusions about change and transition to fill the gaps and reconcile the differences between your beliefs about yourself and reality.

Just like with hemi-sync, that illusionary third note that automatically arises to be heard in the mind between the two different notes played in each ear seems so real, so too, your delusions that automatically arise in your mind between your static beliefs seem so real to you.   

Beliefs are the drivers of individuals and nations. No one can think outside of their beliefs. It is impossible to do. An individual’s mind conforms and accords exactly with their beliefs.

We need to be able to differentiate between what we know and what we only think we know. We need to understand and be able to identify kinds of belief, so as to make sure our mind is functioning optimally.

When the consciousness is condensed to its purity, when it knows itself and understands what it is and what it is not, then instead of being opaque with protrusions and prone to delusions, it becomes clear and naturally round, and receptive to truth.

It is consciousness holding a logical belief in its own existence and in the existence of truth, and holding that belief as its highest ideal value and highest operational value, that enables the consciousness to become clear, rounded and able to see and know truth.      

1796 said: "Vicky, you have little idea what beliefs are and how the mind works. But that is not unusual. It is not common knowledge. But you should at least be aware that you don't know, for ignorance that believes it knows is foolishness."


Recoverer responds: "The above reminds me of the same sort of thing 1796 has said to me in the past. After a person speaks in such a way, I find no need to continue to read his long intellect-based post.  It isn't a matter of my being defensive, it is a matter of not wanting to read words from a person who speaks in the way that 1796 will sometimes speak.

1796 wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 10:58am:


Beliefs are subjective things.  And I think everyone has some sort of belief, whether they are conscious or subconscious.

You suggesting that hemi-sync automatically generates delusions is not a fact, it's your opinion.  Which is fine for you to have.  I'm just saying that for myself, I can look beyond what you're focusing on as a hindrance and I can utilize the benefits of the altered states that I have achieved via the use of hemi-sync or via the use of Bruce's methods.  So that's what I'm demonstrating.  I see that you're demonstrating that people should evaluate their own experiences with a keen eye for deciphering what may be false.  I agree.  Just like being able to recognize what's real.  Maybe it's a half glass full sort of thing.  I look for the things that propel me to achieve, excel, and soar, not the things that hold me back from doing so. 

I'm not pretending to misunderstand, I just don't agree with you that "this = that".  You seem to be trying to point out that some beliefs can be delusions, and you seem to be trying to apply that to hemi-sync based on the third sound.  I just don't see how you jump from the sound effect to delusions to beliefs and how you have found some common thread there. 

I've listened to a lot of hemi-sync and binaural beats.  I know of the third sound you're talking about.  However, I disagree with you in jumping to the assumption or belief that because of the effect of the third sound that it means that the experience (and beliefs that stem from such experiences) that follows is delusional. 

Not all analogies are useful.  It's much more helpful to just speak plainly and say what you mean.  Your using psychobabble about incompatible beliefs as an analogy for hemi-sync is a poor argument that doesn't hold much water.  Just because there is that third sound doesn't add up to there being delusional or incompatible beliefs involved.  I'm confused about the connection you're trying to make. 

You can clearly see where I'm coming from in all my replies to you, can't you?  You are only commenting to further describe and demonstrate what you are wanting to show, but you're not going further into what I'm trying to show.  The third sound in hemi-sync is not a concern.  How and why it's there has nothing to do with the real point of hemi-sync, which is the opening of the nonphysical senses due to one's altered state of consciousness, and the experiences that follow as a result.  You do understand that that is what my replies are about, right?

So simply put, I have no problem with the third sound being there.  It has nothing to do with the validity of my beliefs and experiences.  I am not speaking in generalities of what some people might possibly experience or what some people may or may not believe and that some beliefs may not be best or most truthful.  I'm only talking about my own direct experiences.  My beliefs, most of which lie at the core of my identity, are what make up who I am.  Conflicting beliefs causes changes which we call growth.  Having experiences and gaining more knowledge often lead to such growth. 

So, why we're "arguing" I have no idea.  I still say we're having two different conversations.  The logic you're trying to apply to what I'm talking about is what's confusing.  I don't see how your descriptions and definitions and analogies have anything to do with how and why hemi-sync or the imagination method techniques work.  If you do, that's fine.  But I'm not pretending to misunderstand you.  I'm not playing games.  I just think we don't see eye to eye on the whole concept of the discussion of methodology.

Morrighan wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 3:07pm:


So true.  Now there's a great analogy!

DocM wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 8:47pm:


Thanks for putting it into a logical and scientific explanation Matthew.  I understand the basics of the subtraction/summation frequency, but I guess I never thought of it as being something that they can actually record with an EEG and see it. 

So Matthew, do you know what if anything else was gained or learned from these kinds of scientific research studies?  I'm only familiar with it for the technology for the purpose of what TMI teaches, but not aware of in what other ways this is useful.

As a side note, I bought some various Hemi-Sync CDs and the brain wave entrainments (delta, theta, alpha, and gamma) and gave them to my medical oncologist.  He's very much into many spiritual beliefs and practices.  He had never heard of any of this and was really fascinated by it, although he has admitted he still hasn't "dared" to try listening to any of it.  I've assured him that it's not going to do any damage to his brain or change him in some way. 

DocM wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 10:47pm:


And yet, just a tool.

An effective tool; a demonstrably proven tool; but still a tool. It is we who bear the responsibility of wielding such a tool, and the responsibility of what we create with it. The greatest good is rarely (if ever) the greatest good in my experience.

And always a good idea to check for water in the pool before the springboard commit ....