Justin:

It would be useful to ask Don and Dude the same questions.

Dude, this sort of conversation has continued to take place, because both 1796 and Roger made rude comments towards Justin and I, and the conversations ended up progressing at they did.

Ask 1796 and Roger to contain themselves, and perhaps Justin and I won't find the need to speak up.

If somebody started a fundamentalist Christian forum, and a few people came to that forum, and started making a bunch of posts about the Disk viewpoint etc., and then spoke of errors they found in the Bible and said that such errors come from demons, and said that people shouldn't read the Bible, such site creator would probably ban such people, or tell them to move on someplace else. I believe it would be correct for he or she to do so. After all, if people searched for such a forum, they probably did so because they wanted to find out about the Bible. Why interfere with what they are trying to do?

Dude:

I am not interested in bringing this topic up over and over again. It is already out in the open. I spoke of it again, because of what 1796 said about some people being Paranoid. If somebody writes a post, I figure they have a motive for doing so. I know that when I take the time to write a post and present a viewpoint, I usually have a reason. If I say something such as "it is okay for people to make contact with the spirit world, as long as this is what they need to do and use discernment," I do so with the "intent" of helping somebody find what is appropriate for he or she.

I'm sure glad that I decided to make contact with the spirit world, because it has been really helpful to do so.

I understand about free speech, but sometimes free speech is about letting people have a place where they can speak about the things they want to speak of, without that place being turned into another place. A person can find out if they are in the right place to discuss what they want to discuss, by considering the site originator's purpose for doing so. Since Bruce is an afterlife explorer, and wrote a book explaining how others can do so, perhaps he didn't intend for this forum to be a place where people are discouraged from exploring nonphysically, and to instead read a book. If a seeker were to visit this forum now, he or she would find that a large number of posts serve that purpose.

In the end, it is not up to either you or I what takes place here.

Dude, you can believe what you want to believe, I will not try to change your mind.

But I will add, Bruce did tell Don that he wished that he would start his own forum rather than write what he writes here. If this isn't a clue, I don't know what is.

It's ok to not like an opposing view, but that view is to be countered with reason. This is reasonable.

Holding a grudge is like holding a burning log and thinking it must sting the other person, but it's likely that the sting stays put and only grows as long as the burning log is held. Forgiveness for others cleans out the hurt, and acceptance that whatever one accuses others for, the self sure isn't perfect either.

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Please, let's try to discuss ideas and not a specific person. Well, isn't this and any other argument put forth something that can be countered with reason?

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To counter an argument with "you are seeking to defame them with your argument" may be your assumption about another person, unless they of course state they are going for defame. Fighting one's assumptions leads nowhere. I know this. I also know that even if I feel something is so and so, that doesn't mean it is so, and I have to turn to reason to make something clear. And if my feeling of something is not correct, then I obstruct other people from talking, which isn't fair to them.

I Am Dude wrote on Jun 10^th, 2017 at 9:43pm:


   Like Albert, I believe you and Don are mostly sincere and consciously think you are doing what is right and good. But I am reminded of Proverbs 14: "12 There is a way that men think is right, and its ways are the ways of death." I would add "and seems right". 

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   Vince, I've met Albert twice in person, talked to him on the phone a number of times and have been more or less consistent personal email communication with him for some 7 years or so now.  I would say I have a pretty good sense of what Albert is like, especially since I'm highly empathic and sensitive to people's auras. 

   Albert is one of the few people that I've met, that I sensed a good amount of Golden Light, of the awakened Heart, in relation to. 

    What you are doing here with Albert, is typical human judgment and heaping your own unregenerated, repressed/surpressed/disowned shadow onto him, because it's easier to do that, than face and deal with your own lack of Love.  Albert is an easy and attractive target for you because he is unusually attuned to Love. 

     In this situation, Albert is somewhat like, though not fully like, Yeshua, and you are one of those whose shadow is being powerfully and uncomfortably stirred up by his attunement to Light and Love. 

  There is another way, and another choice though. Look to self and get your own house in order, before trying to correct others.  Only those who have done the former in many experiences and for much of this life, can correctly and helpfully do the latter.  If self is given authority and go ahead from God and Yeshua to act in such a capacity, then such go aheads will be repeating and unmistakable. I'm speaking from experience on this.

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  It's very clear that dogmatic, narrow doctrine based religion is being pushed here by some. Both Bob Monroe and Bruce Moen came to the Earth to help counter balance this some 1700 year trend, and help facilitate a new way.  They have mostly been led by positive guidance in their efforts.   

  You know who wasn't led by positive guidance?  The Romans who made Christianity a state religion and who forcefully tried to force it down the throats of other nations and peoples.  And when I say "force it down the throats", I'm being somewhat literal, as some of the surviving original, small Christian groups at the time, who practiced things like vegetarianism, would have Romans pour molten lead down their throats.  Though technically, this was before the Romans "converted" and it was made a state religion. 

  But, the Romans never stopped the killing and torturing, they just started doing it in new names, that of God and Christ.  Lovely folks, lovely "Christians", lovely time periods. These were "anti-Christs". 

    The best way to teach Christianity and convert people, is by positive example.  Be and channel Love, and some people, after awhile, will take notice and think to themselves, "wow, maybe there is something to this teacher Christ and trying to follow him.  These person(s) seem happy, at peace, balanced, loving. I want to be like them." 

   Do you think this applies to self currently? 

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        Bruce is getting progressively more and more sick and closer to death.  Perhaps he has less and less time, energy, and focus to put on these forum dramas and conflicts? 
       I recently thought about filling out a Peer Moderator complaint, but I decided to not do so, because of Bruce's condition and that this drama is probably the last thing he wants to focus on right now.  Maybe he wants some peace before he leaves?   

   To some extent, this situation is karmic for him as well, because for many years even when he wasn't sick, he hasn't been too involved with this forum and not really paying attention to developing trends or people with deeper, hidden agendas. 

     When Bruce disconnects from the body, and more fully phases into his expanded/faster vibratory levels, he will see these situations much more clearly. 

  But, the fact is, Bruce DID speak up to Don at least and recently, and as Albert said, he pretty clearly indicated he was tired of Don's antics. 

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    If the folks are being completely upfront, completely sincere, and don't have a strong belief that everything but reading the Bible or being Christian is demonic, then yes, I would agree.  But you're not being fully honest with yourself. 

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    The only lying going on here is self dishonesty, and a lot of unconsciousness.  I brought up your Y.T. video earlier because it was a clear indication that you have tended to live in and from the ego pretty strongly.
       This doesn't change over night just because one becomes a Christian.  I have personally met many unloving and non Christ like Christians.  I am truly and sincerely glad that you have found out the importance of the Abba and Yeshua in the larger reality, but it's a long, narrow, and challenging road to walk before one even get's near them in a deep, consistent, and holistic sense.
      It's less about belief, and it's a lot more about livingness in relation to Creation in general and especially one's fellow humans. 

  Again, if self is truly fit to act as a facilitator for others, having first transformed much one's own shadow and lack of Love, then one will get clear messages, like dreams, from within from God and Christ, that this applies to self. 

  Have you had such dreams of late?   

  The unfortunate irony of this situation is that both Albert and I have had these kind of dreams messages, recently etc.  I know the first, automatic, unconscious thought/feeling is, "these dreams are from demons", but if you look at the Bible, you will note that dreams are one of the most preferred ways for God and Christ to speak to humans, and that's because our conscious, ego based personality minds are not involved in the formulating or receiving these. 

     I'll give you just one example from many:  I had a dream awhile ago, before I came to accept my role and why I came here.  In the dream, I was teaching a class, and a nice, sweet lady in same raised her hand.  I said yes, and she replied "Mr. W, you're like Christ."  I felt uncomfortable with the comparison and I answered, "While I appreciate what you said, I don't think/believe I should be compared to him."  I went back to teaching the class, and a little while passed and she raised her hand again, and I again said yes, and she replied, "But your eyes are even like his."   

    When she said that, I felt/knew the truth of her statement, just accepted it and didn't contradict her this time.  At the end of class, I saw a student who I had worked with in real life.  This student and I really liked each other.  I was a good influence on him and helped him a lot psychologically.  He was a natural leader type.   Anyways, I saw him at the end of the class, he had a big smile on his face, and he gave me a high five. 

      I've had a lot of dreams making similar points as the above.  I"ve had a number of talented, accurate sensitives say similar to me about my path, role, and what I came here for.  I've been getting these messages since I was 4 (Dr. Everywhere), but for a long time, I had false humility, false modesty, that I shouldn't be compared to Yeshua, because I had so put him on a pedestal, way above others and self. 

   I don't expect you to believe or accept the above, but I would like you to at least understand that this is the pov that I am coming from in talking to you and others in a more teaching type way. 

   If you have received a lot of these kinds of dreams, then let me know, and I will completely leave you alone from here onward. If this is true, then you don't need my or any other humans nudging. 

   Really, what I would most like for you, is for you to go deep within and ask to connect only to the Abba and Yeshua and rely more on that connection and guidance than anything else.  This is the main and most helpful/effective way to truth.  I realize that you have started to practice that, but I've noticed that you're listening to a lot of other people's beliefs and interpretations and being influenced strongly by these and that.

    Yeshua constantly stressed to others in his teachings, to go deep within and seek direct communion with the original Creator and he said, that combined with living an ethical, loving, holistically helpful life in relation to others, will help spiritually help a person more than anything else.  He spoke and emphasized so, so, so truly. It's right there, repeated in the NT.  Don't believe me, but believe his words.