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OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique (Read 60617 times)

Focus 69

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #60 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:05pm

1796 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:30am:

Focus 69 wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2017 at 10:02am:

Another question; in the afterlife topic, we often been told that one need to contact an helper first who will then find a person to be retrieve, but how come thoses helpers know the existence and the place to contact this stuck person and did nothing to retrieve him previously ?

Vicky wrote on Jun 6^th, 2017 at 8:46pm:

Focus 69,
...
I think you had asked on this thread why Helpers don't just do the retrievals themselves. This is a great question, and if you read Bruce's books you'll understand. People who are stuck are not able to see or hear helpers, which is why we are able to help those people who are stuck. We're better able to get their attention. Then once you are with them, the helper is able to come into their awareness and be seen and heard.
...

To answer that the stuck ones "are not able to see or hear the helpers", does not answer the question of why and how these helpers are not able to do the retrievals themselves, but you are able to retrieve them after the helper shows you where the stuck ones are.
Are these helpers helpless?

And it does not answer the question of why it even matters whether or not the stuck one can see and hear the helpers. If the helpers are true then they can help regardless. People do not need to be able to see and hear to be helped, not in this world or the next.

And how is it that the stuck ones can see and hear the helpers after you have contacted the stuck one and can finish off your retrieval job if you lose them ("click out"). If the helper can finish it, why can't they start it?

If these helpers can help you in this world, then why can't they help the stuck ones in the next world?

It does not satisfy an inquiring mind to simply restate in various ways that the helpers can't help because they can't help. Inquiring minds need a reason that makes sense. Otherwise the inquiring mind is simply being asked to believe something without a logical rationale. Inquiring minds are not inclined to do that. The inquiring mind appreciates a reason that makes it say "Ahha, yes, of course, now I see it clearly." And such an answer enthuses the inquiring mind and entices it forward to do its own investigation. Surely if the subject matter is true then there must exist such an answer, for truth is like that.

cb

Yeah thats very true.

So do you have your own opinion on all this or are you like me still a bit "stuck in translation" ?

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Focus 69

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #61 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:43pm

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Re: nonphysical Helpers and how they often have a hard time getting the attention of folks stuck: A lot of it has to do with vibratory levels and the Universal Law of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like.

True nonphysical Helpers are very fast vibratory in nature. Folks that are stuck, are temporarily pretty slow vibratory in nature and in are much more "in phase" with the physical Earth and physical energies that are themselves slow vibratory and stuck.

Humanity in general is quite stuck. Just as many physically focused humans have a hard time clearly and directly perceiving nonphysically focused Helpers, so to are those stuck in the "etheric" level, which is only slightly faster vibratory than the physical.

This is also where classic OBE's take place. It is a slow vibratory level that is strongly in phase with/similar in vibration to the physical . Be wary of so called teachers who primarily work in/at this level, for they oft are slow vibratory in nature and oft aren't true teachers/helpers--more so the "guise" of.

Anyways, back to retrieval: This is where an aware, mature, service oriented Soul connected to a human body suit comes along and can be of some assistance to the nonphysically focused Helpers. Because of our connection to a physical body, a slow vibratory level, it is much easier for one of us to be perceived by folks stuck in the etheric level. You can be the most spiritually mature, fast vibratory consciousness around, but if you're directly connected to a human body--well it has a definite "grounding" affect.

That which is a similar vibration/wavelength according to the Universal Law of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like, easily and more directly perceives that which is in similar resonation. This is metaphysics 101.

It doesn't just apply to this situation, but many, many situations. Folks in "Hollow Heavens", which are in the emotional level/range of vibration do not normally perceive those individuals and levels that are faster vibratory and that are phased into the mental or spiritual levels. The latter can temporarily slow down their vibratory levels some to phase into the emotional level and be more directly perceived, but even then, it's hard for them to be perceived.

The above Law and reactions are also why true, real spiritual teachers/Helpers incarnate in human form, are often ignored or outright disliked. Others can perceive them, at least their physical aspect, because all humans have these slow vibratory bodies in common, and bodies can easily perceive other bodies.

But most humans have a hard time perceiveing the inner nature of true spiritual Helpers/Teachers incarnate. This is why, most of the real ones, don't have any kind of following. It is primiarlly the moderately fast vibratory and slow vibratory false teachers, that have the biggest crowds. A more similar resonation with the average human.

The most evolved/mature of incarnate Helpers/Retrievers, unless they perform constant miracles like Yeshua, often are ignored, marginalized, minimized, etc by the majority around them. Even the ones who do get some attention because of the constant perfomring of miracles, like Yeshua, they tend to powerfuly stir up the shadow of others and become extremely and irrationally disliked or even hated by many around them.

People see "red" in relation to them and are always trying to get rid of them. Why? Vibrational/Consciousness dissonance. And slow vibratory does not "like" fast vibratory. Fast vibratory loves all, is all inclusive, but stuck, slow vibratory doesn't tend to react well to very fast vibratory.

Plato's allegory of the cave is very apropos here. Hence why Yeshua was falsely tried, tortured, and murdered. Why? Simply for speaking truth and being powerfully attuned to PUL. His powerful and pure channeling of PUL polarized the fear/ego/selfishness levels of humanity, and powerfully stirred up those dark rivers.

This is why he cautioned his then and future disciples, and said be sure you really want to follow me, because if you do truly follow in my footsteps, the world and most humans in same, will come to hate and despise you too. And indeed, most of his disciples who tried hard to follow in his footsteps and attune a lot to PUL, ended up being imprisoned, tortured, and/or murdered themselves.

Why? Vibrational dissonance and slow vibratory does not like or abide well fast vibratory. Same reason why Albert and I have been banned from a number of forums. People cannot abide us, or rather, our unusual attunement to PUL.

This is a situation and dream guidance message related to this: Quote:

I went through a period a little while back where I felt some definite pangs of loneliness because I've noticed over the years, that few people want to connect in a deeper way to me. I like connecting with people. I've wondered about it off and on, and it came up particularly strongly during the above cycle.
I had a dream where I was at a school I didn't belong at or normally go to. I observed various students at the school and I tried to interact with/connect to them on a personal level but most of them weren't interested in interacting with me for some reason. I saw myself helping them, sort of in the background, and though I was lonely, helping the students was somewhat fulfilling. It felt like I was almost invisible to them, almost like I was a ghost and most barely perceived me.
I wondered why, and why most weren't interested in interacting with me. I caught a reflection of myself off a pane of glass, and observed that I looked much older than the students. I had a beard and a general look of maturity, while most of the students I was observing were much younger.

The above is why there are some on this board who despise and irrationally dislike Albert and I. Because we speak truth and are unusually attuned to PUL. Vibrational dissonance and stirring up of shadows.

Thanks a lot for this explanation.

I DEEPLY share your opinion about the hermetism of any "hi range standard deviation refinement"... on a psychological level at least.

What do you mean by "begets" please ?

PUL is pure unconditional love of course ?

Who is Albert ?

(I would be very happy to have a teacher able to OBE at will though, at least for now...^^)

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Focus 69

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #62 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:49pm

Recoverer 2 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2017 at 3:37pm:

George Ritchie wrote a book called, "Ordered to Return-My Life After Dying." Jesus took him on a tour of the afterlife. On page 41 it says:

"We were in another location of this plane. We were standing on a high porch in front of this huge building. What I saw horrified me more than anything I have ever seen in my life. Since you could tell what the beings of this place thought, you knew they were filled with hate, deceit, lies, self-righteousness bordering on megalomania, and lewd sexual aggressiveness that were causing them to carry out all kind of abominable acts on each other.

This was breaking the heart of the Son of God standing beside me. Even here were angels trying to get them to change their thoughts. Since they could not admit there were beings greater than themselves, they could not see or hear them. There was no fire and brimstone here; no boxed-in canyons, but something a thousand times worse from my point of view. Here was a place totally devoid of love. This was HELL.

There were beings arguing over some religious or political point, trying to kill the ones who did not agree with them. I thought when I saw this, "No wonder our world is in such a mess and we have had so many tragic religious wars. No wonder this was breaking Christ's heart, the One who came to teach us peace and love." Yes, this place was absent of any other beings, except the angels, who understood what Jesus had incarnated to try to teach us."

The above paragraph reminds me of what Howard Storm said in he book "" on page 73. (Jesus also took Howard on a tour of the afterlife during his NDE.)

"Question: "Which is the best religion?"
I was expecting them to answer with something like Methodist or Presbyterian or Catholic, or some other denomination.

They answered, "The religion that brings you closest to God."

Question: But which one is that?

There are good people in bad religions and there are bad people in good religions. It is not so important which religion, but what individuals do with the religion they have been given."

I shared George's experience with the intent of providing a source that shows that sometimes it is difficult for love-based spirit beings to make contact with souls that are caught up in a lower state of being. I doubt that Jesus lied to George about this point. People are able to make contact because their connection to a physical body makes it possible for stuck spirits to perceive their energy.

Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen aren’t the only people who have written of retrievals.
In 1960 a book called “The Study and Practice of Astral Projection was published (written by Dr. Robert Crookall). Considering the date the book was published, Mr. Crookall certainly wasn’t influenced by Robert Monroe or Bruce Moen. On page 114 the book says, “On a subsequent occasion, I was taken by a guide into the “dark regions.” It was exactly like Dante’s Inferno-people groped in darkness, scarcely discernible as human being. I have since done much “Rescue Work” in these regions.”

I read an NDE account where a person spoke of doing retrievals by merging with lost souls, I can't find that account.

The John L. Masters experience I shared on another thread seems to make the same point. Some unfriendly beings had to enter John Master's body before they could be helped. The way I do retrievals is similar. A spirit that is in need of help attaches to me, I tune into my spirit self and its connection to God and those who are with God, and a stream of cleansing energy takes place until the spirit that needs help can move on to a higher level of being. As this takes place I can feel negative energy gradually get transformed into love and peace.

Below is the John L. Masters experience I shared elsewhere.
John Lerma M.D. wrote a book called, "Learning From the Light (Pre-Death Experiences, Prophecies, and Angelic Messages of Hope). There is a chapter called "The Exorcism of John L. Masters." To make a long story short, he was a biker that allowed unfriendly beings to enter him during a gang initiation, and he became possessed. He developed physical problems, ended up in the Psychological ward of a hospital, decided to change his ways, and asked for the help of an Exorcist.

Dr. Lerma hooked him up with a Catholic priest named Father Doherty. On pages 91-92 the book says:

"I then heard John exclaim, "It's Archangel Michael. He is the angel I described earlier. He is directing the band of evil spirits away from me and toward the light. Michael is telling the lost souls that God wants to help and not condemn them. All they have to do is trust, accept, and enter the Light of non-judgment, non-condemnation, and total love. Father Doherty, I wish you could see the souls you helped drive out of my mind and body.

With tears in his eyes, John Masters positioned his body on his bed and looked straight up at the ceiling, sighed, and closed his eyes. With his eyes still closed, he gently said that the lost souls were now slowly moving toward the light of God amongst an assembly of angels. This is what it was all about. I now see clearly. I see I had chosen to play a role as John L. Masters so that I could draw a group of God's lost souls into me and eventually out of me and toward the light. Wow! I am awe-struck at the extent God goes to bring one or more sheep back to his flock."

Very troubling what you bring here... thanks a lot for sharing my friend !!

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Focus 69 Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 111	Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique Reply #63 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:55pm To all, I would like to say that i am in the point in my "teaching" where i need THE PROOF !!... The one Bruce found after 3 years... which allows everything to explode concomitantly ... If you know how i could get over this crucial step you are more than welcome.
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Recoverer 2

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #64 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 7:03pm

Focus 69:

There is no need to be troubled. One thing that has been made clear to me in numerous ways is that we have free will. Therefore, it is completely up to us to decide what kind of person we want to be.

Regarding the beings John L. Masters was possessed by, it is hard to say what precisely those beings are. People tend to speak of demons without knowing what they actually are or where they come from. How would they know?

Some people might say from Satan, but if you read what the Bible says about Satan, it doesn't provide a consistent and clear description of who/what Satan is. "Satan" basically mean adversary. Sometimes a Satan worked on God's behalf. Sometimes "Satan" was used in a causal way, such as when Jesus told Peter, "don't be a Satan (adversary) to me.

Some people believe the Book of Isiah explains who Satan is when it speaks of a fallen angel named Lucifer, but that is probably due to a translation error, and that book spoke of a fallen king, a physical person.

There might be some head honcho negative beings, but who knows what/who precisely such beings are?

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Recoverer 2

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #65 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 7:05pm

Focus 69, me again. First of all, what works for you, might be different than what works for other people.

Sometimes you have to be patient.

Perhaps something in Bruce's guide book might help.

Focus 69 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:55pm:

To all,

I would like to say that i am in the point in my "teaching" where i need THE PROOF !!...

The one Bruce found after 3 years... which allows everything to explode concomitantly ...

If you know how i could get over this crucial step you are more than welcome.

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KarmicBalancer

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #66 - Jun 7^th, 2017 at 7:16pm

Quote:

I DEEPLY share your opinion about the hermetism of any "hi range standard deviation refinement"... on a psychological level at least.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the above.
Quote:

What do you mean by "begets" please ?

Begets. Like putting out positive energy in relation to others, builds up attunement to positive energy within. Putting out negative energy towards others, tends to foster/faciliate negative energy and destructive either within or without.

Course, there are also the material meanings like having a child aka "begetting a child".

Quote:

PUL is pure unconditional love of course ?

Correct Sir.

Quote:

Who is Albert ?

My friend who goes by the name here of "Recoverer2"

Quote:

(I would be very happy to have a teacher able to OBE at will though, at least for now...^^)

Can't help you there, as I never had much luck with having classic OBE type experiences. I went through a brief phase where I had a couple, but I was not my normal self then, and for various reasons, I've come to view classic OBE's as limiting.

But, I DO highly recommend Rosalind McKnight's first book, "Cosmic Journeys: My Out-of-Body Explorations with Bob Monroe". She was one Bob's long time "explorers".

Her main guide/helper, "Ah So" (not his real name), says some very enlightening things about classic OBE and other ways of exploring, perceiving, and experiencing the nonphysical.

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Morrighan

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #67 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:19am

Focus 69 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2017 at 6:55pm:

In my experience, Focus69, if you wish to get over the crucial step then tell your mind to go on a long hike and don't come back. The mental mind is not your friend. Remember what is telling you that you can't get along without it ....

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over — Fudd's First Law of Opposition.
It goes in — it must come out. — Teslacles Deviant to Fudd's First Law

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Uno

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #68 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:41am

Quote:

if you wish to get over the crucial step then tell your mind to go on a long hike and don't come back. The mental mind is not your friend. Remember what is telling you that you can't get along without it ....

The mental mind is not one's friend you write, yet you use the mind to recognise this. Why is the mind not one's friend, why the need for it go to on a long hike?

"The mind is a set of cognitive faculties including consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory. It is usually defined as the faculty of an entity's thoughts and consciousness. It holds the power of imagination, recognition, and appreciation, and is responsible for processing feelings and emotions, resulting in attitudes and actions." - Wikipedia

If you claim there is no truth and in the same breath claim that is the truth, you are a leftist.

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Morrighan Super Member Offline Multidimensional Navigator Posts: 505 Isle of Everywhere Gender:	Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique Reply #69 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:01pm That's mind talking The difference is: who is the boss. The mind is a terrible boss. You (general you) hired it. Only you can fire it. The mind will not listen until it's absolutely, and clearly, told to STFU. (Relevance here to retrieval techniques)
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Uno Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 115	Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique Reply #70 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:07pm Morrighan wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:01pm: (Relevance here to retrieval techniques) The mind takes a hike. Who is the new boss?
Back to top	If you claim there is no truth and in the same breath claim that is the truth, you are a leftist. IP Logged

Morrighan Super Member Offline Multidimensional Navigator Posts: 505 Isle of Everywhere Gender:	Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique Reply #71 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:15pm About time to get rid of this guy, who should look very familiar:
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Uno Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 115	Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique Reply #72 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:22pm The man on a string looks about ready to do a lively Finnish Tango. Can't the new boss be described by words?
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Recoverer 2

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #73 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:30pm

That is a good point Uno.

Our minds are not our enemy. Rigid psychological conditioning we are not willing to question is the problem. In order to evaluate things accurately, we need to make use of the mind aspect of being.

Everything we have learned doesn't need to be thrown completely out the window in order for us to learn, as long as we are willing to learn something new. In some cases we'll find that there is some truth in what we learned before.

I have known some people that are so into putting down their mind aspect of being that they have a difficult time with learning something with a good level of certainty, because they won't allow themselves to use their mind. If somebody is too extreme with an approach, it could be that their approach is more conceptual and therefore ironically more mental, than they realize.

Uno wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:07pm:

Morrighan wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:01pm:

(Relevance here to retrieval techniques)

The mind takes a hike. Who is the new boss?

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Morrighan

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Re: OBE experiencers and Retrievals's technique
Reply #74 - Jun 8^th, 2017 at 1:32pm

The image immediately upthread is of Bob Denver playing Gilligan on Gilligan's Isle.

^ ginormous clue

Here is one route to finding answers that I place forth with neither endorsement nor denial. Ask these four questions before asking your question:

are you there
who and or what are you
what do you want me to know
I have a question, will you answer me?

[your question]

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over — Fudd's First Law of Opposition.
It goes in — it must come out. — Teslacles Deviant to Fudd's First Law

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