I guess this proves just how deceptive the afterlife can be!  ES himself was obviously the victim in this example.  All the more reason to stay on this side of the veil.

R

1796 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 8:47pm:


OK HERE IS A LINK WHICH IS A DIRECT TRANSLATION OF HIS TRAVELS TO OTHER EARTHS

Take time read for yourself Swedenborg's actual words

http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/eiu/eiu01.htm

It is not a nasty habit, but a deliberate decision/act on my behalf not to reveal the source of the link.  Any fool can see the content of that post is not mine or reflects my writing style

I did it this time deliberately to keep the focus on the stupidity of Swedenborg, not wanted you guys trolling the net to find selective writings on him that would present him in a positive light, instead of the reality of the man, who was a deluded liar of the first order

What the article from the skeptical author reflects the truth about the ridiculous claims of a deluded and huge liar in te person of namely, Emanuel Swedenborg

I think? I am the only person on this forum, who has a huge content of his own writings and thoughts, both at home and on the internet (Thousands of pages)

Thus, I am the one that least needs to copy and past anything.

And please list all these frequently copied and pasted posts of mine, where I want the forum to think it was my work?

1)................?
2)............... ?
3)............... ?
4)................?
?
1000)...........................??

The disparaging of Swedenborg here is ridiculous.  He was an explorer in the 1700s.  By dismissing his accounts of life on other planets, you miss the forest for the trees. 

ES was one of the most verified astral travelers of his time.  But any traveler will be limited by his or her interpretation of the data they receive through their own interpretation.  I have no doubt that ES believed in his communications with Mercury, Venus, etc.  This does not prove he was deluded or a fraud.  On the spiritual plane, there is a correspondence to the physical.  ES may believe he was communicating with spirits for a planet.  This does not signify that he was astrally standing on the planet and interacting with incarnated beings.  He was subjectively interpreting his astral experience when he sent his consciousness out to explore.  And the interpretation is only as good in these far out instances as ES's internal interpretor. 

I have no doubt that in the spiritual planes, there may be nonphysical presences associated with different planets or planetary bodies.  I wouldn't presume to know how these associations form or what ES's interactions were. 

It is foolish to dismiss ES based on these writings, when he had so many verified confirmations which were documented.  The other issue with ES is that his entire cosmology is a coherent system which follows the spirit of the gospels of the New Testament.  Interestingly enough, ES believes that God is benevolent (as opposed to Alan who of late has tried to frighten people with talk of wrath, fire and brimstone).  ES was told that the the most important commandments were to love God (which is to love that which is good, and that which is true) and to love one's neighbor (fellow man).  Everything else followed from that. 

All suffering and afflictions stem from love of self or separation from God in the ES system or cosmology.  This appears quite consistent with many modern spiritual thinkers from different religions. 

The idea that ES as an explorer, mystic and scholar is debunked based on his writings of other planets is, in short ridiculous.  You must take the context of the exploration into account, and the entirety of the person's explorations and writings in order to make an assessment. 

M

DocM wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 12:39am:


It is not short of ridiculous to debunk the work of an outright liar in the person of Swedenborg, it is an absolute necessity to do , even shout it out for all to comprehend.

Yes he was a 'Traveller" but only in the confines of his own mind and very colourful imagination.

He had a serious affliction of verbal diarrhoea and his constant verbosity had no end to it

He specifically mentioned visiting people on places where life as we know it is absolutely impossible, such as Mercury, a place as hot as the proverbial hell. Jupiter a gas giant, our moon a totally airless dead world, which he could not mistake for something else.

Even from the most highly educated or those with a colossally high IQ, stupidly remains stupidly and a lie a lie.

His lies were outrageous nonsense bringing in the discredit everything else he wrote about.

Just try and compare this religious nutcase, with the true genius and of a man of real substance a truly real scientist, maybe even the greatest theoretical scientist in all of human history

Namely the truly great Albert Einstein and you will see his life contains absolutely no ridiculous nonsense in all his works as that of the inane convoluted rubbish of Emanuel Swedenborg.

Swedenborg was also a religious fanatic writing huge essays around wild speculations of the bible, especially heaven and hell and his interpretation of Revelations.

Matthew I am baffled as to why you a medical doctor can support such rubbish.

Alan

1796 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 6:32am:


Here are the actual words of Emanual Swedenborg thus you be the judge?

That there are many earths, and men upon them, and spirits and angels thence, is well known in the other life, for it is there granted to every one who desires it from a love of truth, and thence of use, to speak with the spirits of other earths, and thereby to be confirmed concerning a plurality of worlds, and to be informed that the human race is not from one earth only, but from innumerable earths; and moreover to be informed what is their genius, manner of life, and their Divine worship.


I have occasionally spoken on this subject with the spirits of our earth, and it was said that any man of keen understanding may conclude from many things that he knows that there are many earths, and that there are men there; for it may be concluded from reason that such great masses as the planets are, some of which exceed this earth in magnitude, are not empty in, asses, and created only to be conveyed in their revolutions round the sun, and to shine with their scanty light for one earth, but that their use must needs be more excellent than that.

He who believes, as every one ought to believe, that the Divine created the universe for no other end than that the human race may exist, and thence heaven, for the human race is the seminary of heaven, must needs believe also, that wherever there is an earth, there are men. That the planets which are visible to our eyes, as being within the boundaries of this solar system, are earths, may be manifestly known from this, that they are bodies of earthy matter, because they reflect the light of the sun, and when seen through optical glasses, they appear, not as stars glittering by reason of their flame, but as earths variegated from darker portions. The same may further appear from this, that they, in like manner as our earth, are conveyed by a progressive motion round the sun, in the way of the zodiac, whence they have their years, and seasons of the year, as spring, summer, autumn, and winter; and in like manner, as our earth, revolve about their own axis, whence they have their days, and times of the day, as morning, noon, evening and night. Moreover some of them have moons, which are called satellites, and which revolve round their globes at stated times, as the moon does round our earth. Also the planet Saturn has besides a large luminous belt, because it is very far distant from the sun, which belt supplies that earth with much light, although reflected. Who that knows these things and from reason thinks about them can say that these are empty bodies?


Moreover, when I have spoken with spirits, I have said that men may believe that in the universe there are more earths than one, from this, that the starry heaven is so immense, and the stars therein are so innumerable, each of which in its place, or in its world, is a sun, and like our sun, in various magnitude. Whoever duly considers, concludes that so immense a whole must needs be a means to an end, which is the ultimate of creation, which end is the kingdom of heaven, wherein the Divine may dwell with angels and men; for the visible universe, or the heaven resplendent with stars so innumerable, which are so many suns, is only a means for the existence of earths, and of men upon them, of whom may be formed a heavenly kingdom. From these things a rational man must needs be led to conceive, that so immense a means, adapted to so great an end, was not constituted for a race of men and for a heaven thence derived from one earth only; for what would this be to the Divine, which is infinite, and to which thousands, yea, ten thousands of earths, all full of inhabitants, would be small and scarce anything.

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Moreover, the angelic heaven is so immense, that it corresponds with all the particulars with man, myriads corresponding to every member, organ, and viscus, and to every affection of each; and it has been given to know, that this heaven, as to all its correspondences, can by no means exist, except from the inhabitants of very many earths. 5-1

Therefore these spirits are permitted to wander about, and even to pass out of this solar system into others, and to procure for themselves knowledges.

They have declared that there are earths inhabited by men, not only in this solar system, but also out of it in the starry heaven, to an immense number. These spirits are from the planet Mercury.



Then they were told that the Lord on our earth assumed the Human, they mused awhile, and presently said, that it was done for the salvation of the human race.


THE EARTH OR PLANET MERCURY, ITS SPIRITS AND INHABITANTS.


That the whole heaven resembles one man, which is therefore called the Greatest Man, and that each and all things with man, both his exteriors and interiors, correspond to that man or heaven, is an arcanum not yet known in the world; but that it is so, has been abundantly shown. 9-1 To constitute that Greatest Man, there is need of spirits from many earths, those who come from our earth into heaven not being sufficient for this purpose, being respectively few; and it is provided by the Lord, that whenever there is a deficiency in any place as to the quality or quantity of correspondence,

Immediately those are summoned from another earth who can fill up the deficiency, that the proportion may be preserved, and thus heaven be kept in due consistence.

It was also disclosed to me from heaven, in what relation to the Greatest Man the spirits from the planet Mercury stand, namely, that they have relation to the memory, but to the memory of things abstracted from terrestrial and merely material objects. Since how ever it has been granted to speak with them, and this during many weeks, and to learn their nature and quality, and to explore how the inhabitants of that earth are particularly circumstanced, I will adduce the experiences themselves.

Some spirits came to me, and it was declared from heaven, that they were from the earth which is nearest to the sun, and which in our earth is called by the name of the planet Mercury.



Immediately on their coming, they sought from my memory what I knew. Spirits can do this most dexterously, for when they come to man, they see in his memory all things contained therein. 11-1 During their search for various things, and amongst others, for the cities and places where I had been,

I observed that they did not wish to know anything of temples, palaces, houses, or streets, but only of those things which I knew were transacted in those places, also of whatever related to the government therein, and to the genius and manners of the inhabitants, and similar things: for such things cohere with places in man's memory; wherefore when the places are recalled, those things also are brought up.

I wondered that they were of such a nature; wherefore I asked them, why they disregarded the magnificence of the places, and only attended to the things and deeds done there. They said they had no delight in looking at things material, corporeal, and terrestrial, but only at things real. Hence it was confirmed, that the spirits of that earth, in the Greatest Man, have relation to the memory of things abstracted from what is material and terrestrial.

It was told me, that such is the life of the inhabitants of that earth, namely, that they have no concern about things terrestrial and corporeal, but only about the statutes, laws, and forms of government, of the nations therein; also about the things of heaven, which are innumerable,

And I was further informed, that many of the men of that earth speak with spirits, and that thence they have the knowledges of spiritual things, and of the states of life after death; and thence also their contempt of things corporeal and terrestrial.

For they who know of a certainty, and believe in the life after death, are concerned about heavenly things, as being eternal and happy, but not about worldly things, only so far as the necessities of life require. Because the inhabitants of Mercury are such, therefore also the spirits who are from thence are of a like nature. 12-1
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With what eagerness they inquire into and imbibe the knowledges of things, such as appertain to the memory elevated above the sensual things of the body, was made manifest to me from this, that when they looked into those things which I knew respecting heavenly things, they passed hastily through them all, and continually saying that this and that were so and so.





They were also asked about the sun of the world, how it appears from their earth. They said that it appears large, and larger there than when seen from other earths, and they said they knew this from the ideas of other spirits concerning the sun. They said further that they enjoy a middle temperature, neither too hot nor too cold. It was then granted me to tell them, that it was so provided of the Lord in regard to them that they should not be exposed to too much heat by reason of their greater nearness to the sun, inasmuch as heat does not arise from the sun's nearness, but from the altitude and density of the atmosphere, as appears from the cold on high mountains even in hot climates; also that heat is varied according to the direct or oblique incidence of the sun's rays, as is plain from the seasons of winter and summer in every region. These are the things which it was given me to know concerning the spirits and inhabitants of the earth Mercury.


THE EARTH OR PLANET JUPITER, ITS SPIRITS AND INHABITANTS.

It was granted me to enjoy longer interaction with the spirits and angels of the planet Jupiter, than with the spirits and angels from the rest of the planets; wherefore I am at liberty to relate more concerning the state of their life, and of the inhabitants of that planet. That those spirits were from that planet was evident from many things, and it was also declared from heaven.


The earth itself or planet Jupiter does not indeed appear to spirits and angels: for to the inhabitants of the spiritual world no earth is visible, but only the spirits and angels who come thence.

They who are from the planet Jupiter appear in front to the left, at a considerable distance, and this constantly, see above (n. 42) there also is the planet. The spirits of every earth are near their earth, because they are from its inhabitants, for every man after death becomes a spirit, and because they are thus of a similar genius, and can be with the inhabitants, and serve them.

They related that in the region of the earth where they had lived while in the world, the multitude of men therein was as great as the earth could support; that the earth was fertile, and it abounded in all things; and that there they did not desire more than the necessaries of life; that they accounted nothing useful but so far as it was necessary; and that hence the multitude of men was so great. They said that the education of their children was their greatest concern, and that they loved them most tenderly.

They further related that they are there distinguished into nations, families, and houses, and that they all live apart with their own kindred; and that hence their interaction is confined to relatives; likewise, that no one ever covets the goods of another; and that it never enters into their minds to desire the possessions of another, still less to obtain them fraudulently, and least of all to break in and plunder.

This they consider as a crime against human nature, and regard it as horrible. When I would have told them that on this earth there are wars, depredations, and murders, they then turned away, and were unwilling to hear. It was declared to me by the angels that the most ancient people on this earth lived in like manner, namely, that they were distinguished into nations, families, and houses that all at that time were content with their own possessions that it was a thing altogether unknown for one person to enrich himself from the goods of another, and to have dominion from self-love; and that on this account the ancient times, and especially the most ancient, were more acceptable to the Lord than succeeding times: and such being the state of the world, innocence also then reigned, and with it wisdom; every one then did what was good from good, and what was just from justice.

To do what is good and just with a view to their own honor, or gain, was unknown. At the same time they spoke nothing but what was true, and this not so much from truth as from good, that is, not from the understanding separate from the will, but from the will conjoined with the understanding. Such were the ancient times; wherefore angels could then converse with men, and convey their minds, almost separate from things corporeal, into heaven, yea, lead them about, and show them the magnificent and blessed things there, and likewise communicate to them their happinesses and delights.

These times were known also to the ancient writers, and were by them called the golden and also Saturnian ages. The reason that those times were such, was owing to this, that men were then distinguished into nations, nations into families, and families into houses, and every house lived apart by itself; and it then never entered into any one's mind to invade another's inheritance, and thence acquire to himself opulence and dominion. Self-love and the love of the world were then far removed; every one rejoiced in his own, and not less in his neighbor's good. But in succeeding times this scene was changed, and totally reversed, when the lust of dominion and of large possessions invaded the mind.

Then mankind, for the sake of self-defense, collected themselves into kingdoms and empires; and because the laws of charity and of conscience, which were inscribed on the hearts, ceased, it became necessary to enact laws in order to restrain violence, in which honors and gains were rewards, and privation of them punishments. When the state of the world was thus changed, heaven removed itself from man, and this more and more even to this age, when it is no longer known whether there is a heaven and a hell, yea, by some it is denied.

These things are said, that it may be illustrated by the parallel, what is the state of the inhabitants of the earth Jupiter, and whence they have their probity, and also their wisdom, concerning which more will be said hereafter.


By long conversation with the spirits of the earth Jupiter, it was made manifest to me that they were more upright than the spirits of most other earths.

The manner of their approach to me, their abode with me, and their influx at that time, was inexpressibly gentle and sweet. In the other life the quality of every spirit manifests itself by an influx, which is the communication of his affection; uprightness by gentleness and sweetness; by gentleness, in that he fears to do hurt, and by sweetness, because he loves to do good. I could clearly distinguish a difference between the gentleness and the sweetness of the influx proceeding from the spirits of Jupiter and of that which proceeds from the good spirits of our earth.

When any slight disagreement exists among them, they said that there appears a sort of slender bright irradiation, like that of lightning, or like the little swath encompassing glittering and wandering stars; but all disagreements among them are soon adjusted. Glittering stars, which are at the same time wandering, signify what is false; but glittering and fixed stars signify what is true; thus the former signify disagreement.

rondele wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 11:44am:


I do not agree, logic tells me you cannot compare a liar in the person of Swedenborg and the outstanding and influential person that was George Washington.

Washington was known as a compassionate man and was intelligent enough to know that it was morally wrong to own slaves. (but did not want to make an issue about it, due to the politics of the day.)

People try to make excuses for Swedenborg's wild highly convoluted nonsensical stories about people relating to supposed civilizations on Mercury or Jupiter, "because he lived in the 17th century" when very little was known about the true conditions of other planets in our solar system"?.

He lied then and if he lived today he would still lie. He would have made a very good used car salesman and most likely made a fortune out of this alternate method of deceiving people, especially gullible people.

However, no serious scientist during the 17th century ever suggested that there are little green men living happily on our airless cratered dead moon or hot as hell mercury or floating somewhere in the freezing methane clouds of the gas giant Jupiter?


Did Einstein write huge essays far outside the realms of his knowledge and expertise, an example, wild unprovable stories, that his dead mom's spirit lived Mars and he visited her regularly there in the spirit.? (Silly example I know!)

And then expect everyone to even give credence to his General Theory of Relativity?

But it seems you can't seem to fathom, that the tiniest amount of cyanide will kill the largest elephant.

Swedenborg supposedly so vastly knowledgeable in scripture so profoundly near to God, so aware of absolute, truth. That it is both baffling and startling to me that he had completely overlooked or, obviously did not read the dire warning in the last chapter of Revelations 'That no liar will enter the Kingdom of Heaven"


Alan

   Having researched astrology for a number of years, and having seen that it has some relative truth and merit when well understood and practiced aright, i'm quite open to the possibility that Swedenborg was translating a lot of this info metaphorically. 

    He's not the only source to speak about these connections between the planets and different nonphysical dimensions.  Cayce's guidance goes quite into it, and Steiner does too. 

   Basically how it works is that the nonphysical dimensions that are connected to the physical dimension and the human experience in our little system of consciousness, can be correlated and represented by the different Planets (including the Star the Sun and the satellite Moon, and Pluto the non planet). 

  It's not that they are literally the same, but more conscious beings in these dimensions are well aware of the correspondence, so they may have communicated that awareness in some form or manner.  Someone with limited knowledge may then metaphorically interpret it in limited or overly literal ways.  Like he's living in "Jupiter", "Mercury" or the like. 

    Also, the different major dimensions, like notes on a scale, range from slow vibratory to faster vibratory. 

  They are like major steps or levels of consciousness and represent different stages of spiritual growth and maturity. 

   Interestingly, the Planets and their corresponding nonphysical dimensions and states of consciousness, can also be correlated to different colors, the aura, tones/notes and different endocrine gland centers. 

  I spent a period of time when much younger, trying to figure out all the accurate connections between these different indications. 

   A brief overview is that Saturn, Earth, and Mars are the slowest vibratory indications and symbols, Moon somewhat in between slowest and mid, Venus and Uranus being mid, Neptune and Mercury being in between mid and fastest, and Jupiter and the Sun being the fastest vibratory in our system.  Pluto being the somewhat odd one out and unique in the sense that it can correspond to the extremes of either.  Uranus also corresponds to extremes, but in a different sense, a strong mix of both slow vibratory and fast vibratory, which ultimately comes out, when mixed, to mid--this of course is usually in direct relation to a human personality. 

    Or in other words, those that focused strongly in the more expanded and Love attuned dimensions before coming into this earth life, will have say Neptune, Jupiter, and/or Sun very highlighted in their earthly astrological chart.  Those that are immature, will tend to have Mars, Saturn, and/or Moon strong, with a lack of strength of the fastest vibratory.  The average person on Earth currently, has a mix of primarily the slowest and mid vibratory symbols.   

  Arcturus starts to become prominent when a consciousness is coming close to the graduation from this entire little system.  It's representative of the "door" out of this system into greater, more expanded systems of consciousness far beyond the human and physical as we experience it. 

   i'm simplifying it all quite a bit for brevity's sake, especially the complexity of a human life and that we tend to come in with a mix of relatively stronger or more unconscious attributes, as well as going through different cycles where we change attunement to the different consciousness states within.   

  Astrology can only show how we used our will in the past, but it cannot show to what we have developed to in the present or in the future.  For more updated outer indications, the aura would be more accurate and up to date. 

   For example, if someone has Jupiter predominant in their chart when born, but started to consistently emanate golden light more and more in their aura, then some would understand that the Sun or Arcturus is better representation of them now. If they have another earth life, perhaps this time around, they or a new Disk mix, will be born with Sun or Arcturus predominant in their chart. 

   All astrology is or does, is describe a symbolic language of consciousness. It does not cause or do anything in and of itself. It's like the understanding of colors, tones, feelings, etc and how these relate to and represent our consciousness.  All of these are only indications, and not the consciousness itself.

  Unfortunately, there are still many astrologers, metaphysicians, etc that don't seem to understand this, and ascribe "power" and direct influence to these outer indications. This is a limited understanding and application.  It's our spiritual will, given to us by the prime and original Creator, the first Source, and how we use same, which changes what consciousness states we attune to or not. 

     So yes, i think that Swedenborg was interpreting the nonphysical info he was picking up on, in limited and metaphorical ways.  Yet, with greater understanding, we could basically say that what he was getting was essentially true in spirit, just not in all exact details and was too literal. 

  It's rare, and perhaps even impossible until self is consciously fully One with the Whole (we all are One with the Whole and Source, but unconsciously so to varying degrees depending on our individual development/maturity), to perceive anything only in a purely accurate, objective way.

  To think self is completely free from this perceptual distortion and deflection, is the height of self delusion unless one has attained to the consciousness of Yeshua (Jesus) and is not operating from a human body, but like him has re-created one free from the physical laws and tendencies that go along with being born of a woman etc.

  This takes a level of maturity, of self mastery and attunement to Love which is extremely rare among humans during MOST cycles in the Earth's history, past, present, and future.