Conversation Board - Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?

recoverer

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #30 - May 29^th, 2013 at 2:42pm

I believe Don's (not Fon's

) post makes some good points. If one just tries to bliss out all the time with no thought of others, chances are such a person won't go too far.

But living for others, even those some consider untouchable in some way, one's nature might become more in line with what divine love is partly about. I say "partly" because I believe divine love would continue to exist even if there weren't others that need help.

Berserk2 wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 6:36pm:

Matthew's question is a foundational question of Christian spirituality. In effect, God gives you a taste of grace or healing through mystical experience--but just a taste---and then asks, "What would you be willing to do if I established an even more intimate bond with you?" If your answer is, "I would serve Jesus with all my heart by becoming His hands and feet reaching out to meet the needs of hurting souls," you will encounter the Spirit of Christ in every person you strive to help. If instead you reply, "I would pursue a mystical lifestyle in the hope of attaining greater self-fulfillment," then the taste of holiness will slowly erode into a belief system of ever more tiresome cliches and dogmas that inoculate you against life-transforming union with the divine. Lasting satisfaction of the highest type depends on a recgnition of God as PUL, a recognition that leads to a life designed to pursue and embody PUL through service to God through service to others.

For example, consider a life-changing moment in the life of the spoiled son of a wealthy cloth merchant. This young man was always repulsed by the very sick and the smelly poor. Then one day, he heard what seemed like an audible voice, saying, "Prefer bitterness to sweetness if you want to know Me." Clueless to what this might mean, he was riding his horse, when he encountered a leper with a badly disfigured face that made him want to barf. As he quickly rode by, the thought struck him that this man might embody the "bitterness" he was supposed to prefer to "sweetness." So he turned around, got off his horse, and kissed the leper on his pussy cheek, thrusting a few coins in his hand. As he did so, wave after wave of liquid love surged through his being. When he rode off, he felt an impulse to look back. The leper had dematerialized. It was then that this spoiled rich kid realized that Christ had come to him disguised as a leper. That experience was the catalyst for the tranformation of a spoiled rich kid into the saint, Francis of Assisi. From then on, whenever he encountered the sick and the needy, he experienced such encounters as Christ coming to him in disguise.

Fon

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BobMoenroe

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #31 - May 30^th, 2013 at 1:21pm

recoverer,

Quote:

"But living for others, even those some consider untouchable in some way, one's nature might become more in line with what divine love is partly about. I say "partly" because I believe divine love would continue to exist even if there weren't others that need help."

How does one go about living for others, what are the nays and yays, if any? What's divine love, does it include any requirements? The other loves a guru and has the time of his/her life, is service then making your view their view? Do I expand my empathic potential by just being kind and showing pity? Empathy is imo about stepping into someone's shoes aiming to understand their feelings and perspectives. What does one do with that understanding coloured by one's own feelings and perspectives? The golden rule, as I've read mentioned, doesn't include the fact that the other may have wildly different tastes.

Empathy, social cooperation and mutual aid. Wary if living for others is supposed to be a one way street where one's progress is measured in how much you're about to sacrifice of your own progress. Is living for others; you live for someone else, someone else lives for you?

Living for others, not writing/saying it, living for others, would turn the burning fire in the heart into experience. It's an idea you may fancy for whatever reason, until you live it.

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recoverer

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #32 - May 30^th, 2013 at 4:39pm

Sorry, but I won't try to answer every point you mentioned.

Perhaps this relates to what I say without getting too lofty. Recently the group of people I work with became really busy. I volunteered to do a project for a lady from this group. As I worked on it I was glad that I volunteered to do it because it was quite challenging and when I compared my related experience to her related experience, I know that I spared her from having to do something that she would've probably found overwhelming. If felt really good to be able to help another out in such a way just simply for her sake.

Yet I was rewarded because the more selfless we become the more we open up to a way of being that feels very nice. It is as if the universe is set up so that negative ways of being lead to unpleasant feelings such as anger, hate and fear; while positive ways of being lead to positive feelings such as love and deep peace.

Quote:

recoverer,

Quote:

"But living for others, even those some consider untouchable in some way, one's nature might become more in line with what divine love is partly about. I say "partly" because I believe divine love would continue to exist even if there weren't others that need help."

How does one go about living for others, what are the nays and yays, if any? What's divine love, does it include any requirements? The other loves a guru and has the time of his/her life, is service then making your view their view? Do I expand my empathic potential by just being kind and showing pity? Empathy is imo about stepping into someone's shoes aiming to understand their feelings and perspectives. What does one do with that understanding coloured by one's own feelings and perspectives? The golden rule, as I've read mentioned, doesn't include the fact that the other may have wildly different tastes.

Empathy, social cooperation and mutual aid. Wary if living for others is supposed to be a one way street where one's progress is measured in how much you're about to sacrifice of your own progress. Is living for others; you live for someone else, someone else lives for you?

Living for others, not writing/saying it, living for others, would turn the burning fire in the heart into experience. It's an idea you may fancy for whatever reason, until you live it.

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isee

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #33 - May 30^th, 2013 at 6:51pm

I like the way you illustrated your point, Recoverer...

There's nothing to fear in doing the "loving" thing in a situation. Whatever our differences, we are human beings and have more in common than we sometimes think we do. We have to learn along the way to do what is right for ourselves but often a personal sacrifice is a noble and worthy response to a given situation.

In any case, being truly helpful not only reminds us all that we are all in this together, it leaves a residue of loving emotions, happier emotions, inside of ourselves. We can trust our intuition that helping other people is something we can discuss, find agreement on, and just do sometimes...what the heck, why not?

Also, it's been shown that when other people witness kind acts, they become kinder in response. It has a ripple effect, no matter who you are or what your likes and dislikes might be.

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #34 - May 30^th, 2013 at 7:13pm Thanks Isee, I like what you said.
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BobMoenroe

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #35 - May 31^st, 2013 at 10:36am

recoverer,

Quote:

"Sorry, but I won't try to answer every point you mentioned."

Ok, how do I qualify to become the others you speak about?

Quote:

"Recently the group of people I work with became really busy."

Which is temporarily living for others, unless one act follows the other and becomes absolute - living for others.

Quote:

"If felt really good to be able to help another out in such a way just simply for her sake."

It felt good in your self. Other selves might feel good about it. Your self made the choice to be helpful. If selfless, where's the feeling of right and wrong, feeling good and bad supposed to come from? Does those who one lives for decide what you're to do?

Is helping out building the neo ku klux clan clubhouse part of living for others, or do your values get in the way to do what these others deem as good?

isee,

Quote:

"Also, it's been shown that when other people witness kind acts, they become kinder in response. It has a ripple effect, no matter who you are or what your likes and dislikes might be."

Ripple effect from your actions; kind acts, the kinder they become - your values becomes their values. Is this what makes a noble sacrifice worth it? What if they don't become kinder, still a meaningful act, for you?

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #36 - May 31^st, 2013 at 12:26pm Bobmoenroe: I don't feel as if your questions serve a constructive purpose and I don't want to have a meaningless debate.
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BobMoenroe Ex Member	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #37 - May 31^st, 2013 at 1:00pm Quote: "I don't feel as if your questions serve a constructive purpose and I don't want to have a meaningless debate." What happened to selfless and living for others? Err.. potentially meaningless questions. Ok then. Moving on.
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isee

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #38 - May 31^st, 2013 at 2:41pm

Quote:

isee,

Quote:

"Also, it's been shown that when other people witness kind acts, they become kinder in response. It has a ripple effect, no matter who you are or what your likes and dislikes might be."

Ripple effect from your actions; kind acts, the kinder they become - your values becomes their values. Is this what makes a noble sacrifice worth it? What if they don't become kinder, still a meaningful act, for you?

BobMoenroe,

1) The ripple effect is simply a fact. "My values becoming their values" is beside the point. I don't know about you, but a kinder world is a "plus" in my book. Would a kinder world made by even by one person such as myself, if the kind acts are done respectfully, be a negative? How so?

2) If some people don't become kinder, it's not my problem unless I make it one -- or unless those people create problems for me. There's still no harm in modeling kind behaviors, whatever those might be. And an act of kindness can have many meanings, not just one. For instance, an act can have more than one outcome for more than one person.

My opinion is that your questions lean toward power/control issues. Is the questioning of others' motives a personal "trust" issue for you?

Perhaps someone/something has taught you not to take others' words at face value. I don't know. Maybe it's your own kind of "crazy wisdom".

But, if someone doesn't want to "take you on" -- so what?

Because you seem to champion personal boundaries so often I find it odd that when someone just tried to set a boundary with you, framing their response with their own personal opinion, it is portrayed as being somehow hypocritical.

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BobMoenroe Ex Member	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #39 - May 31^st, 2013 at 4:02pm isee, I don't feel as if your questions serve a constructive purpose and I don't want to have a meaningless debate.
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isee Ex Member	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #40 - May 31^st, 2013 at 5:35pm No problem. Have a nice day.
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DocM

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #41 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14am

Isee,

For what it is worth, I thought your questions were written with thought, respect and without malice. It is Bob's right to disengage, and he did.

I don't feel that Love is a trite bandwagon that New Agers cling to but don't practice - for me, it is quite real. I don't feel the need to change the belief system of others, but like to share what I feel or what I know. And I absolutely get what you mean when you say that you can act with kindness without reciprocity or expectation, even in the face of unkindness.

Matthew

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identcat

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Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it?
Reply #42 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 7:51pm

I also agree with: if you bliss out continually, with no thought of others, then there is little gain. I remember 40 years ago when I read T. Lobsang Rampa's series of books coming across a story about a lama who meditated for three days at a time in a cave. He had a "keeper" who was assigned to him, who opened the lama's cave door, poked the lama out of his meditation, fed and bathe the lama, clean any excrement before leaving, then seal the opening to the cave so the lama could go another three days of meditating. I perceived this as being very selfish. He was suppose to be praying for the planet, but he also astral traveled to other dimensions. In the mean time, the keeper had to grow the food, gather cleaning supplies, clean and distribute the food and care for his own family while the lama sat in one spot "meditating". I kept thinking to myself; "Well, if the lama didn't want to be reincarnated to human form, then why did he agree only to hide himself away from the planet he came to and did nothing to help another human being?" Of course, the argument is: he did this so the caregiver would learn something.
I see that type of praying (like a true cloister) is very selfish. What do you actually contribute to the betterment of human kind? I meditate and pray, but I also know that others have a need for me to be present in their lives to contribute to their growth and my growth. Just MY thoughts on the subject Tongue

. No offence to anyone who may be cloistered and choose that way of existing. This is not my experience in this lifetime.
I think the most important thing here is to remember; we all make choices before we incarnate. We pick a road, and wonder down it to find ourselves.

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The three things you can never take back:
The spoken word.
The unkind thought.
The misused hour.

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supermodel Senior Member Offline Posts: 250 Indiana Gender:	Re: Spiritual Knowledge - What will you do with it? Reply #43 - Aug 1^st, 2013 at 12:59am My knowledge i've taken to my friends and family to help them with their questions that they've had about the other side. Also as a consequence to meditation and reading these forums, I've gained psychic insight.
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