Hi Justin,     I speak only of my own experience. I can put it this way if it helps understanding: the exploration of our shared after-life is, for me, beyond religious belief... and some other beliefs as well.

I appreciate the response tho' bro'....                             Tim

  Ah Tim.... 

Bob Monroe, the iconoclast, the stout individual who so often had the emphasis on you, you, you and me, me, me, who later finally learned the reality of Oneness, and yet didn't really live that except intermittently and temporarily at times. 

  Course Monroe's filters would emphasize certain things.  Bob the business man, Bob the entertainer, Bob the reluctant OBE'er, Bob the autocratic boss man of his Institute, Bob the friend and co-worker to my then female self, etc, etc. 

  And like so many of us, he did the best with what he knew, learned, and experienced.  But Bob not being pure, did not purely perceive.  Can't get around that one, can we?  What is the unbreakable and ever present LAW, like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like. 

    But others with less distorted filters have called to us, and have taught a bit differently than Bob at times.  Some have emphasized our connectedness more while not forgetting our individuality either.  West meets East, and East meets West finally.

  It's to that one i harken, for he is One, completely and purely with what some call my "Higher" self, and knows me BETTER than i know myself.  And while i listened to Bob and respected Bob and still do, if his voice is not intune with that one, why would i listen?  It has nothing to do with "religion" and never has in this lifetime, i tell you that much.

    Bob sought material compensation, that one did not.  Bob got sick and died like everyone else, that one did not.  Bob realized limitations were illusions, and yet did not overcome many of those limitations and illusions, and yet that one did. 

Griffin wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:


   Beliefs, experiences, perception... very interesting topic to me.  I have a hard time, often, in separating that which we call "perception" from that which we call "experience", for they seemed so intertwined as to be almost indistinguishable.

  Here is an "experience" of mine if you are interested.  Long before i had any conscious or strong "experience" or remembrance of really feeling and expressing Love in the PUL type sense, i knew of Love's importance and existence in some way, somehow.  I "believed" in it... ; )

  Long while back, i was a rather unhappy and chronically depressed individual (later on, i had some mini revisits of similar states, but much more temporary).  Yet, Love was a belief and perception somehow, really a "knowing".  Something i wrote in early high-school, "It has been said many times that there are many paths to God, i disagree.  There may be many different valid and true beliefs and ideas about God, but there is only one path to God, the path of Love." 

   I "believed" this, i knew this, i knew this on some level, in some way.  I will call that my intuitive, knowing self, and how do i distinguish that, Tim, from vaunted "experience" with all the bells and whistles of "out of body explorations", or whatever dramatic and in our face methods the Expanded level of ourselves and/or the larger Whole sometimes uses to get our attention in the hope of converting limited beliefs into more freeing and constructive ones?

   How do i know, that when Bob is talking about He/She, i know, just know, who exactly he is talking to and about?  For lack of a better term, "intuition", and again, how do i separate that from "experience"?  Did i need a Being of Light to descend unto me in some easy to perceive form?  Did i need to be Bob, sharing his body, or his mind?

  What happens when an "individual human" lives a number of lifetimes wherein they meditate oft, give self in service oft, express Love in a bigger sense oft, and dip into other, more expanded systems but come back to this one oft. 

As that individual wakes up in this life, and starts to attune themselves, their intuitive knowing side becomes stronger and stronger, keener and keener, and more and more automatic.  Not infallible, course not, not until completely purified by the cleansing fires of true PUL like He was, but when the intention is not negative or temporarily imbalanced by life's buffeting outer storms... 

Less and less becomes their need and mode for bells and whistle experiences of "traveling out of body", or seeing this or that, or what not, but a quiet and sure knowing comes more and more often, and as the faith and trust increases, so does that keen listening and knowing without senses. 

  And that part of me, knows that Monroe's experience and perception is part of my experience and perception, and pertains to others in some form or manner depending, for he had that experience not JUST for himself, but for the larger Whole as well, and those of us that are His are here to remind others that His times, and His comings are soon to be, and those who are willing to be truly open, truly listening will benefit most.

  Well what else can such a person and messenger say to those without ears to hear, or eyes to see, for those think they are beyond such "limitations" and "golden cages" when really it's just a consequence of the ever present Law of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like, that those who are near Him, know Him, hearken to Him, and abide in Him, and speak the good news whilst those who are a distance from Him by choice. limited beliefs, childhood hangups, and livingness do not yet hear, understand, or hearken to Him more fully .

  And ever in our day and age, and on part of so many individuals defenses is "Religion" an excuse against Him and the messengers who know him.  And ever does He and they exist outside of same.   

  What am i really saying with all these words?  What is the real and most important message?  Just be open, really truly and honestly open, for without that childlike openness you will not and cannot meet Him, YOUR higher self in reflection to YOU, as He fully is.  You will only see half glimpses, and distorted images with some truth and some non truths, and will you be attracted to teachers and teachings less expanded and expanding in nature and effect. 

   Relative stuckness as we all have experienced for so, so, so, so long, or finally full freedom.  Your choice, and only YOU can change that.  Others can only share, remind, and try to encourage. 

  There is no separating Him from Truth, from your Higher self, for He is the Light and birthed our Light and we abide in Him through that Light, and that Love.  And it's time to more fully wake up Tim, for the Whole needs everyone of us to help out in these unusual times and seasons.

  Being Love more fully and knowing Him more fully go hand in hand.  There are those from other systems, other worlds, and Universes who know Him better than most humans despite that He came to us as a human, in human form.   
 

I appreciate your openess, your heartfelt voice. Hearing your voice touches me. That's rare. Myself.... I'm not selling any particular viewpoint. I believe it's important that folks find out the reality of the afterlife for themselves, without anyone telling them what they should discover. If they discover what you believe.... great! It's their discovery. Each individual needs to find out what is out There themselves. Not informed by any particular religious viewpoint. The structure of the afterlife isn't religious in nature. It just is. Like life itself. It's kind of ridiculous to even call it the "afterlife". It's just life.... How cool is that!  I love that we are all here together, able to talk about something so simple & precious. It's a real gift.            Wow..               My best to all y'all, Tim

  True enough Tim, we all need to find out for ourselves.  I totally agree with that.  I guess our approaches in relation to others is a bit different at times, at least on these forums, but maybe that's OK.  My approach with others in person mirrors your approach on this forum much more--rarely talk about my beliefs, experiences, or the experiences or info of others i respect.  Observe, listen, or keep it lighter or material oriented (at least on the surface ) a lot more.  Rarely do the name labels "He/She", Jesus, or Yeshua come from these lips, unless talking to those likewise interested in same.

  Peace, and thank you for sharing and talking with me.

   If you ever visit the Richmond VA area, feel free to let me know if you feel inclined, maybe we talk in person a bit.

Love?

Two strains of submissive love have been mentioned in the thread - power give away by surrendering and living on the whims of a spiritual authority figure and suspending judgement so that everything is lovable, even that which is quite unlovable and grotesque.

In his encounter with PUL, Bob allegedly said "Bruce... you can take this emotional energy with you". This after a wonderful meeting and mutual merging with friends, and a very specific beam of affection (chest->heart->emotional) from Nancy. Did I get that right? Emotionally overpowering, Bruce wrote in his book.

"No judgements, no prerequisites, nothing asked in return, just pure loving acceptance of all of me". Yet some are a lot easier to love than others, some a lot easier to ban. No prerequisites, as long as there is love - gunks of black sent her way, and still lovin' it? Of course not. Nothing asked in return, since for a few moments it's all so good that nothing really matters, which they do after all, don't they? Pure loving acceptance of a likable fellow.

Counting the number of times PUL have been mentioned on this site maybe bears witness to curiosity about what affection beyond words is like, wanting to experience it and the fondness of it by those who have experienced it, giving and receiving. Affection beyond words, obviously, it's beyond words fantastic, but that is what being is all about? PACT - powerful affection junkies?

The PUL example takes interaction between small portions of I-THEREs engaged in this system into account. How about affection purely between I-THEREs, our total selves? Greater than mini-merging affection, so this more encompassing affection becomes the new addiction?

Love, as just one simple example, is two people talking with each other. No commercial lighting to illuminate the scene and make it shiny and shallow, no teeth whitening needed, no white dressed choir people ho-humming and parts of the world is still at war, some at peace. But there's a chat, and there's shared affection.

When I think about my self "going home" I actually get that "butterfly in my stomach" sensation. Then, I can feel myself beaming all over with a wonderful euphoric sensation that makes me feel guilty because the awareness is so stimulating.  Guilt is because I know that I chose to incarnate to experience being human/ human being.  Anxiousness also overwhelms me, as I know that MY feelings and expectations are a reality to myself. One must remember---  in some eyes we are the fallen angels that desired to possess the power of the Creator.  I feel the guilt of turning away and now the desired for the remembrance.  Love Carol Ann

For me, there never was  a question of : am a primarily a spiritual being in human clothing. Even as a child, I KNEW there was spirit. I had trouble understanding the soul. Because I was brought up Roman Catholic (a choice I made before I was re-incarnated to this lifetime) the nuns and priests where obsessed with the soul and seldom mentioned spirit. Finally a revision to the church changed the Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit and that made much more sense to me. I already KNEW I was a spirit.
When I went to the Monroe Institute and went into the pyramid chamber, I didn't expect much to happen. However, a Higher Intelligent Being (HIB) spoke to me and said:
"The difference between the spirit and soul is this; the soul gives life to the body, and the spirit gives life to the soul. "
I contacted my ISH (Inner Self Helper) and spoke to he/she as per usual conversation. I speak with spirit daily because I know that I'm spiritual.  The changes I have made were because of the "hate" I received by other humans while growing up.  I kept wondering where was the love????? The most important thing that changed my life: the three things I can never take back:spoken word, unkind thought and misused hour.  When I read that in a Yankee Magazine--- It mentally set my life in motion.  I use that mantra everyday. 
   If you have read some of my posts from the past, there seems to be a wisdom that comes through. That wisdom is spirit, my spiritual connection with my Guides and Creator. (I read in one book that the author heard the name of God as OHM.)  I like that ---OHM.  I always thought that everyone was like me-- having the KNOWING.
That's all for now, as I still work part-time and need to get to work. I missed everyone on the forum.  Love, Hugs and Peace.  Carol Ann