Bardo wrote on Jan 11^th, 2013 at 11:22am:

That's a question.

If Nazis in their swastika uniforms refrain from demanding extermination
of "weaker" people, and the Nazis only keep their ideals about Übermensch,
and shout Sieg Heil, but otherwise are not into racism, should they still be tarred?

rondele wrote on Jan 11^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

I have not. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in a god.

rondele wrote on Jan 11^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

To me, both Islam and Catholicism are about as bad. In countries with deep
dictatorship, religions tend to worsen.

But very few on this forum have talked in favor of Islam.


rondele wrote on Jan 11^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

If I took an example where religious America having killed about 2200 Pakistani school
kids, through the use of military drones, Americans don't believe me. They say:

"Oh, no, those drones only kill terrorists. The detonations of 2 tons heavy explosives
inside densely populated villages only kill Taliban terrorists."


I'm not sure any religious Americans would believe me with a modern example.
So I picked a historical example (slave trade of Blacks) which I assume
Catholic people can have their facts clear about.

Before missions, American soldiers pray religious Christian prayers in groups,
which have their origin in Catholicism!

Belief in the non-existent god of Muhammed and Moses in military kills.

Pauli is simply wrong but can't admit it - so let it be.  Catholicism did not start the slave trade.  There were slaves in virtually every society all over the world.  But what do the words of Jesus say?  To love thy neighbor as thyself.  To judge not or you will be judged.  To turn the other cheek. 

The fact that men, born into a family that went to church co-opted their leaders and found some excuse for it does not mean that the actual teachings of the religion are to enslave others.  This distinction is so obvious that I hesitate to go any further.  Pauli, you are just off.

Judaism and Christianity have evolved over time.  Islam has yet to evolve but likely will.  It is universally agreed on that enslavement is wrong.  Man has evolved over time.  But teachings of love in the New Testament rise above the actions of men in their daily lives.  To demean the actual teachings of the gospels based on the corruption of men is misguided. 

Hey but guess what Pauli?  I bet Jesus would forgive you.

Having said all of that, The men who ran the Catholic church for  much of its history included a number that were living contrary to the teachings of Jesus, choosing power, sex, money and violence as their gods while paying lip service to Jesus.

Both and neither one of these. 

There are a lot more options than what you have thought of with your limited line of thought.