In my research, I came across A Course in Miracles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles) which seems very interesting...

If I understood well, it also explains that this universe was created by accident, in that, the mind of the Son of God had a tiny, crazy idea that separation might be possible, and since the mind is so infinitely creative, the thought gave rise to separation.

God realized immediately what was happening and ended that separation so we ended back safe in God. Matter, energy, time and space were created in that instant of separation and within the illusory time, the universe goes on.

All of us feel guilty for having caused the separation, so we  choose to incarnate and learn lessons so we can get rid of the fear and selfishness and the illusion of separation. Our goal is to re-learn love and forgiveness and complete our reunion with God which actually happened long ago outside of this illusion of time.

What do you guys think of this? Is it all bogus or it makes sense to you? Is there any credibility into this book?

Cheers

   Oh ye Tempter... 

   I had a very similar experience as Usetawaz described above.  When i didn't "get" the message that way, i then had a dream telling me that ACIM was leading me off my core spiritual path, and i knew when i woke up that i should drop it and so i did. 

There was also a synchronicity of sorts with a spiritual friend of mine who around that time started talking about the clear and repeating messages from his guidance telling him he should drop it as well. 

   There is truth in ACIM, but it's partial or half truths, and you know what they say about those, that they are worse than whole lies for they can deceive even the Soul.   I found that despite it's talk of Love, Oneness, Spirit and God, that it actually programmed negativity and "ego" into my mind. 

  How it does this is actually quite simple, it's written in a very repetitive, looping manner which after awhile of reading "bores" or lulls the conscious mind to the passive state, allowing the subconscious or ruling mind to open up more. 

  It then implants repeatedly a veiled suggestion into the subconscious which is based on polarization and "ego", the same things it purports to help us get rid of!  It talks far too much about ego, fear, etc. and in such a polarized manner with Spirit, Love, etc. 

  The subconscious mind is a sponge that responds to positive direction.  You tell it a thing is so, and it is so.  You tell it, "you are hot" and you become hot.   It doesn't compute "nots, no's, don'ts," and various other negatives.  Telling it you are NOT hot, well it doesn't hear the "not" part.

  So, when it talks so much of ego, fear, separation when you are in that vulnerable, subconsciously receptive state, guess what get's programmed?    The things you don't want!   

  Hence, it is as a wolf in sheep's clothing, and very deliberately designed this way by lacking in Light forces to mislead and keep humans stuck in the very problems and issues we are trying to grow out of. 

  So what do i think of ACIM--i think it's harmful in essence, and instead of donating mine i threw it away. 

  I have a real time relationship with the purported Teacher of same, why would i make a book, a course my teacher, when i have the Fluid, Real deal in my life?   Living and breathing guidance v.s. a rigid, structure of a book? 

  I tell you this much, it did not come from my Teacher. 

  But i don't ask that others take my word for this, i sincerely hope that others so interested will deliberately hook up to the most spiritually expanded Guidance there is, via both that specific intention/prayer/request/affirmation and through opening self up to the remembrance and feeling of Love and/or gratitude, and ask these expanded Sources what is the real deal on ACIM. 

  Speaking of the Teacher, he was very clear in some of his warnings to future generations that others would arise that would claim they were or of the Christ, but to not listen to these.  He said *even some of the very "elect" will become fooled in those days*. 

   I got hoodwinked for awhile, but it was a good learning experience and helped open up my eyes to the ways and methods of the lacking in Light forces.   It was a catalyst for me to become more aware of these in general, and now it is easier for me to spot other wolves in sheep's clothing.   Now i apply discernment and discrimination to all outer so called "spiritual" works and sources--especially the popular ones.

  Kathy, it is far worse and more harmful than that.  Definite and more extremely lacking in Light forces had a hand in it's creation and deliberately so. 

     If you want to see if the above is true or not, then ask for the help, guidance, and direction of only the most Source and PUL attuned consciousnesses, get deep in meditation, open up to the remembrance and feeling of Love and/or gratitude, and ask with no preconceptions if the above is true or not. 

  I have done this, and i trust the answers i've gotten from both a dream and from the above. 

   It was around the time that i got involved in ACIM when my lower self started to become much stronger than usual, and it took definite time and effort to untangle myself from that.   You saw me then, and you see me now.  Part of my problem then was my focus then on this work.

 

Very interesting, thank you for your feedback guys!

I would really love to find the truth someday...guess I'll have to wait for when I land in the afterlife!

Another thought. Spiritual growth can be delayed in various ways. Sometimes by the things we believe are helping us.

Some people do seem to have taken from it positive points, but there has been a sinister association with the book and those associated with it.  Father Groeschel became fascinated with exploring Helen (the source) and her channeling, as it supposedly was a direct connection to God.   

Toward the end of her life, Shucman suffered, and appeared to have a deterioration.  From Victoria Hardy Amerrican Chronicle:

"Although Father Groeschel felt that A Course in Miracles undermined authentic Christianity, he and Dr. Schucman maintained a friendship until her death. Most disturbing to him was the "black hole of rage and depression that Schucman fell into during the last two years of her life." According to Groeschel, who sat with Schucman while she was dying, "she cursed, in the coarsest barroom language you could imagine, `that book, that goddamn book.' She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her. I mean, she raised the hair on the back of my neck. It was truly terrible to witness."

Now, one can argue that Groeschel had his own agenda (protecting the church's belief system and denouncing Shucman's channeling), but others confirmed this awful state the author/channeler had been in toward the end of her life.  This does not sound typical of one touched by PUL or a spirit as evolved as Jesus. 

That being said, I think it was Cervantes who said "there is no book so bad that something good may not be found in it."

For me, I get leery with "courses," in miracles, preferring to explore the more mundane and miraculous on my own. 


M

I hadn't seen your posts recoverer. Guess we were writing at the same time too! Thank you for your insight.

I've tried numerous times to communicate with my spiritual guide but never managed (or maybe I think so!)

Guess I have to believe more and be persistent or maybe I should read more to find the techniques (like meditation etc)

Anyway, I also wonder...why would a very smart 'bad' spirit go all that way to channel all that information to mislead us souls? Just for the fun of it and to hinder us from growing spiritually?

Thank!

You're welcome Wonderer.

Regarding making contact with a spirit guide, I recommend that you don't make a big issue of it. Different people have different needs. Perhaps all you need to do is listen to your intuition, heart, intelligence and common sense. You might also pay attention to your dreams. I've found that we can receive messages through our dreams. Figuring out what the symbology means can be tricky.

Regarding why some beings seek to mislead: They don't want this World to evolve spiritually. Some of them, because they have cut themselves off from their divine source try to get energy from us and they want us to produce negativity energy because this is what they like.

[quote Justin]Kathy, it is far worse and more harmful than that.  Definite and more extremely lacking in Light forces had a hand in it's creation and deliberately so.  [/quote]

LOL Justin, you are cracking me up.

That's your belief system at work.  I have no such belief since I've never read the book.  The only thing that can cause a person to "go crazy" is fear.  I see no reason to make other people afraid or clutter up their mind with pontification.  I trust everyone's own guidance system to lead them to where they need to be.  It's all just consciousness... information... we all choose how to react to whatever information that comes to us.

My advice: Don't believe anything anyone says.  In particular don't believe those who speak about something in a knowing and self-important way, especially when that person is not qualified to do so.  Be skeptical.  Find your own answers within yourself.  Trust your inner being.

Kathy

Lights of Love wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 4:23pm:


Kathy, have you specifically asked the most spiritually expanded and Love attuned sources about this course like i have? 

  If you answer no, and then you also freely admit you didn't read the book, then it sounds like you are speaking from a lack of experience. 

  I'm not speaking from "belief systems" but from deep, repeated experience with it on various levels. 

When i first came upon this course, i was very excited and happy, and i approached it quite enthusiastically. 

  As mentioned, i didn't even listen to the repeat experience of nodding off almost every time i read this book in any depth. 

Then i had a dream more specifically warning me about it. 

   I respect that you don't feel or think the same way as i about it, but that doesn't mean that you need to label me in a certain way and say that i'm speaking just from a belief system, when in actuality it is the other way around--i'm speaking from experience and you aren't. 

  As i mentioned in my other posts on this thread, i don't ask or want others to take my word for it, but i outlined a VERY effective and simple way for others to find out for themselves the truth of this or any other matter. 

  What exactly is "wrong" with that advice?

  Should i not share my experience and guidance about something that i found out first hand is actually harmful and limiting in a spiritual sense?   Should i not caution others to seek and only accept the guidance and advice from the most expanded guidance levels re: this issue?

  My speaking out about this is motivated by concern that others not fall into the same trap i fell into with this course.  It's motivated out of love.

Justin:

Yes it's strange, Hugh Prather saw the effects of the course yet he hadn't reached the point (as far as I know) where he could thoroughly consider it's validity.

When the course would cause me to nod out I too wondered if my higher self was causing this so I wouldn't become brainwashed. Here's how things basically played out for me when I got involved with the course. I don't want this post to be too long so I'll try to minimize the number of details.

I used to see the book in book stores but I never looked at it because it was always covered in a plastic wrapper. One day I found a copy that wasn't wrapped. As soon as I opened it I felt a lot of Jello like energy around my waste area. I had never experienced this before when opening a book. Perhaps my higher self was hoping I would wonder why my lower chakra area suddenly became alive while opening a book that is supposedly spiritual; nevertheless, I bought it.

I experienced more than the nodding out effect. I also saw little demonic images mixed in with the Words as I read it. Some might say this was because I was mentally ill, but why didn't I see the same imagery with other books?

My spirit guidance tried to give me some subtle hints about the book but I was stubborn (You might say my Taurus side ). One time my guidance sent me the message to read just a few pages at a time very carefully. Because the book has soooo many pages I had somewhat of an inclination to rush through it. The problem with that approach is that I wasn't discriminating it clearly enough. As I said above, my guidance urged me to take my time and discern what I was reading.

Eventually I realized that the book was having a brainwashing effect on me. I was starting to think like a parrot according to what the book said rather than according to what my own inner knowledge told me. This concerned me so I decided ask about the book as mentioned on an earlier post, and everytime I did I would in some way be told that the course isn't a good course to follow.

Then I reached the point where I could read it with a truly questioning mind rather than following it blindly. By the way, the course has some words that basically make the point that when you don't understand what is being said go ahead and keep reading and allow the course to have its effect. It says this as if there will be moments when you wont' have the ability to understand. I don't believe that a genuine being of light would expect people to follow something so blindly and mindlessly. If a person agrees to take such an approach he basically decides to allow the book (and its source) to tell him what to do.  Undesirable subservience can take place in stages.

If a person has invested a lot of time in the course (as it requires), there is a good chance that he (or she) will have a strong emotional attachment to it and as a result have a difficult time questioning it thoroughly. I've found that the books that are most inspiring to me aren't overly long and repetitive and that I'm not afraid to question them. If someone else doesn't like such a book that is fine with me. I believe it is a mistake to get our identity too wrapped up with a book.

Let's say there is a book that is misleading and comes from misleading beings.  I'll call it Tomfoolery. Do the beings who channel the information do so with the expectation that "only" people who need a lesson in discrimination will get involved with their Tomfoolery, or because they are hoping to influence people in a negative way regardless of their intended soul path?

I don't believe that life is set up so that people only follow the path that is best for their soul. In order for free will to exist the possibility has to exist that many people (souls) will go astray to a degree that isn't preferable.  Part of the reason they go astray is because there are a lot of negative influences. That being the case, perhaps it isn't wrong that some people try to play a role in making it so fewer people go astray. I'm not trying to force anybody to not read ACIM. Just trying to be helpful to anybody who is interested.

It is important to remember that in this case somebody asked.

  Hi Kathy,

  I remember that you have respect for Yeshua and his teachings to some extent. 

  Why would Yeshua vocally disagree with and contradict at times the Pharisees, Sadducees, and others? 

  Why did he at times criticize their ways and their teachings? 

  It seemed he was concerned that people were getting stuck by listening too much to these outer authorities, which were not just ignorant, but in some cases actually corrupt and misleading in nature for a purpose of self gain.  (money, status, etc)

As Yeshua showed in his example, a person can be coming from a place of Love and yet speak out about misleading influences--especially those which are purposely misleading in a spiritual sense.  Remember how even he acted in the Temple with the money lenders and those selling animals for sacrifice?  Did he seem "laid back" and anything goes, or did it seem like he passionately cared?

We are on this Earth for the primary reason of spiritual growth.  Helpers sometimes incarnate here and sometimes try to make people aware of certain issues which relate to spiritual growth and stuckness. 

As far as ACIM helping other people, well having been friends with some people really over attached to ACIM, and having seen aspects of them which the public hasn't seen because they keep those aspects hidden most times, i would question how much they were truly helped by ACIM. 

When a person truly grows in Love, they become a more tolerant and accepting person of others around them.   They don't get fed up with immature behavior and abandon a group or site because there is occasional immature behavior there or some members might be less mature than the majority or what not. 

   Yeshua in his life got a lot of flack for spending most of his time with the various "undesirables" of his society, the thieves, the prostitutes, the tax collectors, etc. 

He wasn't bothered by immature behavior and didn't seek to surround himself only with people of like mind and with people that mostly agreed with him most of the time.  He didn't "hang out" with the "spiritual, nice crowd" most of the time. 

   People that are attuned to PUL more so, see such immature behavior or people as opportunities to help others grow and get out of their suffering states of being.  To be an example of Light.

  People that can't handle being around others different than themselves and who want their ego's coddled, have a lot of spiritual growth to go through and a lot to learn about Love. 

  Such people have i known who are involved with ACIM.  And it's partly because of how ACIM is and how it is limiting in nature and tendency.  I believe if such people didn't get involved with ACIM to begin with, they probably would be much more spiritually centered and loving people, and would accept others as they are rather than try to form their own little special groups of only like minded folks.

  The proof is in the pudding, and Yeshua's example is the standard of what PUL attunement really looks like.  Obviously, ACIM is not helping those to be more like him. 

  I say the above, believe it or not, with Love in my heart for those people i spoke of.  I don't see it as a lack in them, but a very clever, malignant outer force which tricked them, and having been tricked myself for a time, i have compassion and understanding for that plight.   It's a hard hole to dig oneself out of, and otherwise loving, aware, intelligent, and spiritually centered people have fallen prey to the manipulations of those that want to see individuals and humanity spiritually limited. 

   Besides my experience and guidance with ACIM, i've had direct guidance about such forces, and other reputable sources have spoken about such hindering forces that seek to mislead, limit, and keep stuck humanity. 

Here is a short list for starters,  Thomas Campbell, Edgar Cayce, Robert Monroe, Rosiland A. McKnight., and Yeshua.   Then i have my own experiences and guidance, and i have those of people i've met inphysical and who i trust, like Albert. 

  Are you more aware than all these were or are?   Maybe you should try the methods i outlined, rather than speaking so quickly about something you have a lack of experience with?  Because you are a more mature person, i feel like i can be more direct and honest with you about these issues.

Justin:

Related to what you just wrote, I wouldn't want to be a part of a forum where it is against the law, a mortal sin, to question the validity of channeled sources.

As far as I'm concerned allowing people to promote "possible" misleading channeled sources while at the same time not allowing people to speak out against such sources is tantamount of being an enabler of those beings that try to deceive. I do not believe this is what Jesus had in mind when he said show them your other cheek.

Thank you all for your feedback. I have read all you replies carefully and understood what each one of you had to say. Very deep thoughts, very clear to me. I miss these kind of conversations in my life, so its great to be here.

Like most of you said, I think the best would be to look and find the answers in my inner self, by seeking advice from my guide/s etc.

I read a lot, but always with an open mind. I always question things and don't let what I read affect me much. My rule of thumb right now are love and forgiveness.

Now speaking about the guides....a few months back, I was in a very difficult situation, had to make a decision that would have changed my life and that of my family. I prayed, asked help from my guides and after a few days asking, I felt I got the answer. I choose to live for others as compared to myself, was a tough decision, but  chose out of love. It felt right. The decision made my life a bit miserable, but at least others did not get hurt and are very happy now. I am now struggling to accept the course of my life.

Anyway, I still try to seek help from my guides and i feel I get answers most of the times....but I always question myself....was that my guide talking to me or was I talking to myself!!!???

How do you know that the messages are from the guides and not me talking to myself?

Thanks!

Quote:


Hi Wonderer,

Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between your own thoughts and information coming to you.  One of the best ways that I have learned is that I distinguish a difference between "feeling" and "emotion" when receiving information.

To me feeling is the same as what I call "being" and emotion is more a part of the intellectual process. In order to "just be" we need to set our intellect aside temporarily. This is how I tell the difference from my own thoughts (intellectual) and what is coming to me from the larger consciousness system.

When I receive information I'm in a state that is without thought and emotion, otherwise the information could easily be tainted by my own intellect. It might still have some accuracy to it, but thought and emotion mixed in tends to contaminate the purity or clarity of the information that's been "fed" to me.

Hope this is helpful to you.

Kathy

  Relating to ACIM, the influence of extremely lacking in Light consciousnesses who seek to mislead, limit, etc, and to the conversations between Kathy and i--on another thread about enlightenment, i shared a link to an article i wrote talking about meditation and the importance of the right kind of meditation. 

   Here is what i wrote, and it very much relates to this whole thread and the things that Albert and i have said, Quote:


   I didn't realize until many years later, that i was so suicidal partly because of the influence of some very lacking in Light beings.  For a long time, i thought it solely as a lack and weakness within me.

   It was during my reading of ACIM, when a very psychic friend of mine, told me sort of out of the blue, "I saw a very large and very dark being around you and it's trying to influence you. "   She also said, "you have a lot of Light within you and so have attracted this attention very strongly"

  When i finally disentangled myself from ACIM, partially by calling on the help of Divine Forces, i started to get some guidance about how much earlier when i had experimented with meditation without wisdom, i had let myself become even more open to such influences. 

   One time Becky had a dream wherein she saw her ultra religious and rather emotionally imbalanced and unhappy mother "praying", but instead of energetically connecting to God, because of her negativity and lack of Love for others and herself, Becky saw that she was connecting energetically with what looked like humanoid Reptilian Beings, and that these Beings were influencing her mother strongly, helping her to stay stuck in her life of isolation, unhappiness, and fear. 

If you haven't been in that kind of very dark space, you don't realize how hard it can be to get out of. 

  It is easy and tempting to shove the shadow side of life and Reality under the rug.  I use to do it, and when i did, i was more influenced.  But when i faced my fears, accepted their reality without fear, and called on Divine Forces for help, not only did i become more aware of this side of Reality and what they are and are about, but i stopped being influenced. 

A big part of the latter was also about opening myself up to Love in the more universal and unconditional sense.

  So when people like Kathy tell me glibly that things like, oh, it's all just information and you can choose what to do with it or not--I have to look back at my life, my struggles, and guidance, and express patience with such casual, easy answers that while they have some little bit of relative truth, really don't touch the surface of what Reality and the human condition is about. 

.  ACIM is more than just a book, it's an energetic field, that if you allow yourself to get involved with it, it makes it that much easier for such lacking in Light forces to influence you.  It's almost like stating a specific affirmation of, "I open myself to and ask for the influence of the most lacking in Light Beings there are."

 
  If this process of spiritual growth and awareness was so "easy" or there weren't strong lacking in Light beings involved with this world, then this world would not be a place filled with so much suffering, violence, disrespect, and at times unspeakable horrors.   If it was so easy, so many more of us humans would be near enlightened or fully enlightened, or at the very least much more consistently happy.

   Some people speak from experience and/or direct guidance, and some speak from lack of experience and direct guidance.  It's usually the latter wherein we are speaking from dogma or ignorance about something.

  I'm very passionate about this whole subject, not just based on my own life experience and suffering, but because i came here to counter balance these lacking in Light forces and their influence, so that this world can heal and know Oneness and happiness.  I had to personally go through it myself, in order to see what i'm up against in a sense.  To speak from real wisdom and knowledge about it.

  As Albert has mentioned, it is not "loving" to allow these beings to do their works and influence people without calling them out.  Those who are aware of the problems, must speak of the problems and of the solutions.   The solution is always two fold.  First, awareness without fear, and then Love. 

  Love them and all who err, even the most lacking in Light and cruel beings deserve Love.  Feel Love for them and compassion for their suffering and send prayers that they can find the strength within themselves to change their ways for the better so that they too can become happy and at peace.

Justin said: "So when people like Kathy tell me glibly that things like, oh, it's all just information and you can choose what to do with it or not.  ACIM is more than just a book, it's an energetic field, that if you allow yourself to get involved with it, it makes it that much easier for such lacking in Light forces to influence you."

Recoverer responds: "I believe the above is an important point to consider.

Wonderer:

In my case I usually receive spirit messages in symbolic visual form. Sometimes I'll be caused to have an experience that makes the point. For example, one time I wondered what it is like to be a being who is aware of multiple perspectives at the same time, and my guidance arranged it so I experienced myself as as large spirit being that was aware of 12 incarnations at the same time. Yet, I was still me.

I see such imagery while meditating. Initially I didn't understand why I was seeing such imagery, but eventually I figured out that it was coming from my spirit guidance.

When it comes to receiving thoughts there have been numerous occasions when it was clear that they came from a place other than my own mind. Sometimes I hear a voice. Usally not more than two sentences at a time. I believe that for whatever reasons there is a limitation when it comes to thought or voice communication. There have been occasions when I was in a state where I had a dialogue with a being, but it was difficult to remember everything that was said.

I've found that both friendly and unfriendly beings can communicate to me. I try to feel what they are about. The friendly beings feel like love, deep peace, divinity, integrity and vastness. The dark beings feel negative. There have been occasions when I didn't get a feeling one way or the other.

Lights of Love wrote on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 6:04pm:


  I swear, we must have been married in another life or something...   

Kathy, i don't want to bicker or fight with you (or with anyone for that matter), i do have strong feelings and thoughts about this issue based on both experience and repeat guidance, and because i care a lot about others and about the issue of stuckness and suffering. 

I have not tried to minimize you personally, but have tried to stick to outlining why i feel and think the way i do about ACIM and this issue in general.  I've done this mostly by talking about the experiences i've had and the guidance messages i've received. 

  Yet, consistently, you have tried to make it about ME, and have subtly and not so subtly tried to minimize me as a person in various ways in order to prove your rightness about this topic and my wrongness.  All i've consistently said of a personal manner to you is pointing out that you lack complete experience with ACIM both in not having read it, nor having sought direct guidance about it, which is unlike Albert and i.  The other personal thing i have said is pointing out how contradictory you have been with your original position and preaching, but acting in the opposite manner--telling us we shouldn't be a certain way, but then treating us in that same manner of telling us what is correct or not.  That contradiction is apparent for all to see.  But, it doesn't mean there is anything wrong, bad, or wounded about you.

  You used the term "adamant" in relation to me and Albert.  It is pretty adamant in my mind to repeatedly tell not just one, but two different people with deep experience with something that not only are they wrong in their perceptions in general BUT that they are wrong to even speak about it.  You conveniently ignored the fact that not just Albert and i had similar experiences, but that another forum member with obviously no agenda, Usetawuz, also spoke of the same exact experience that both Albert and i had!   

  You have used manipulative tactics, such as saying that we are trying to scare people, you insinuate strongly that we are wounded people with various issues, etc, etc.  You have used the rather strong word of "coerce" more than once now.

  Yet, your name tag here is "Lights of Love".  If this is "Light" or "Love", i don't want to be loving or light.  I would prefer to be sincere, honest, and direct with others, even if that means i'm not "spiritual".  I don't have a need to be perceived as spiritual by others.  What you see with me, is what you get.  I'm completely honest and sincere, and since such sincerity is so rare in this world, it tends to get me into trouble. 

  Kathy, we have a mutual friend whom i believe we both respect a lot.  Her name is Linn and she is a long time professional psychic.  Various people we both know, will attest to her accuracy and helpfulness. 

  I had a reading with Linn a few years back--she invited me back to her forum, but i declined because i didn't want to rock any boats there, and i figured that it was wiser if i didn't since i am such an honest and direct person sometimes.  I can be a little over Yang sometimes.

  Anyways, this is one of the things that she, or rather her Guidance said about me during the reading.   Something that hit home so deeply, that i felt myself tearing up when i read it because of how true it is and how much i've suffered at times because of it. 

This is what she wrote and how she wrote it (her use of capitalization), "this particular soul's journey has been of obtaining karmic balance, obligations to self more than to others. His journey has seen many set backs, more so the cause of  being MIS-UNDERSTOOD by others. ( this was emphasized loudly)."

  I will not return personal put downs, nor insinuate how wounded, selfish, and imbalanced you are like you have with me.  I'm done with that kind of stuff.  I did that before with you years ago when i truly was less centered, and i've grown up a lot since then.

  But i will say that what Linn said in the above about me, applies very much to this situation and to our interaction here.  You have deeply misunderstood me and where i'm coming from with in talking about my experiences and insights with ACIM. 

  Perhaps, i should just leave it at that.  I wish you truly understood where i am coming from, but it's ok if you don't, because i don't need your approval to speak up about issues that i believe are important and worth speaking up for. 

Well I decided to jump in anyway.

Wonderer, I really wonder who you are and what led you to bring up this "nasty" topic...

Posts about ACIM always evolve to arguments about the validity of the making of ACIM rather than about the content itself. Maybe we should have a group read of ACIM and discuss the contents!

And id you fall asleep reading it, well maybe it is just over your head. You's probably fall asleep reading serious work about string theory too.

I have no reason to argue with anyone's decision to not read ACIM, no reason to argue with anyone else's guidance to follow a different path. Now I'm going to say something that will no doubt prompt cries of "you don't understand me." Well maybe I don't understand you because you don't understand how you are presenting yourself.

Your guidance is just that: YOUR guidance. I don't care if you claim it is Jesus himself or any other name you want to use for that entity. I can't tell the difference between YOUR guidance and the guidance of anyone else. The trouble is, you make it sound like your guidance is the be all and end all authority for everyone. Well, it ain't. Do you understand what you sound like? You sound like every guru that ever came down the road and claimed to have a direct line to God. When you claim to have been misunderstood, I can only think that you do not understand how you come across.

This leads to the situation that Kathy described so well:"Interesting that you don't want to censored, but when it comes to someone else expressing their opinion you become argumentative in ways that show no respect for what another has to say. Other people have tried to discuss this with you previously, too.  Other people do have the right to speak out as well, but the two of you are so passionate about your hostilities against ACIM, gurus, etc. that you make it next to impossible for others to speak their own opinions for fear of being undermined or possibly even directly attacked, so maybe what I've said about using coercion may indeed apply to you both.  Not that coercion would be your intention, but that others would possibly feel thay way simply because you are so adament about it.  "

It creates a situation where open conversation is not possible.

btw, Albert, the Hugh Prather quote is a little out of context as I believe Prather stayed in the ACIM community until his death in Nov? 2010. If he felt that way, why woul dhe stay?

Of course, looking for that on the 'net led me to info claiming ACIM was a CIA plot. Now that's interesting. After all, didn't Joe McMoneagle work on one of those CIA projects? Does that make TMI a CIA product? But Moen trained at TMI. Does that make this group a product of CIA ventures? just wondering.


Wonderer, be careful what you ask for you just might get it.

Thanks mjd for sharing your experience and all the best to your journey too 

Wonderer wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 7:59am:


Hi Wonderer! It's great to see you here as well! It's always interesting to encounter forum members from our website in different places!

Yes, ACIM is a wonderful spiritual resource and it's curriculum is material that everyone will have to learn at some point in his spiritual progress. There is nothing harmful or wrong with this book at all! I have read a lot of it and it is all perfectly consistent with what I've read in other places.

I'm not sure why people here seem to think that ACIM is, not just inaccurate, but harmful. That could not be further from the truth!

Lucy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2012 at 7:18am:



Hi Lucy!

I'm just a normal person who is always open to information and opinions from all kind of beings

I'm sorry that maybe this topic created such a debate and honestly didn't know there was another thread on this topic. I should have search the forum better, so I apologize for that.

I love asking as I love hearing what others have to say, so its OK if I 'get' into something

Yeah, I like to go to different forums and try to spread the afterlife message whenever I have free time.

Plus, I always find it interesting to go from being well-known on AfterlifeForums.com, to simply being a rather obscure member here. I like to get both perspectives of the online experience!

Kathy made a statement about my hostilities towards ACIM and Gurus (she also referred to Justin). For anybody who is interested here is an article I wrote about gurus. Am I hostile, or just trying to help out?

http://nondualityisdualistic.com/articles-2/do-you-need-a-guru-december-9-2011/

Lucy:

On one of my posts I said the following:

"Justin:

Yes it's strange, Hugh Prather saw the effects of the course yet he hadn't reached the point (as far as I know) where he could thoroughly consider it's validity."

Please see my responses to parts of your post below (within brackets).

[quote author=2C150319600 link=1329479990/40#40 date=1329650310]Well I decided to jump in anyway.

Wonderer, I really wonder who you are and what led you to bring up this "nasty" topic...

[This isn't Wonderer's first post. What are you implying? That he wrote his previous posts with the intent of someday starting this thread?  Perhaps this topic is nasty because when some people choose to speak about their experiences with ACIM other people choose to villify such people and make statements about their motives that aren't true.]]

Posts about ACIM always evolve to arguments about the validity of the making of ACIM rather than about the content itself. Maybe we should have a group read of ACIM and discuss the contents!

[If you read some of the previous posts you'll see that comments about the course's content were made.]

And id you fall asleep reading it, well maybe it is just over your head. You's probably fall asleep reading serious work about string theory too.

[Wow! The above statement was unnecessary and perhaps a bit elitist. Regarding the lady who used visit this forum and quote ACIM fairly often, when I told her I wasn't going to read ACIM anymore she said that I wasn't ready for it. To some degree she was buying into ACIM's statement that eventually everybody will read the course because it is required reading. People might want to ask themselves if they are comfortable with a book that claims to be required reading.]

Your guidance is just that: YOUR guidance. I don't care if you claim it is Jesus himself or any other name you want to use for that entity. I can't tell the difference between YOUR guidance and the guidance of anyone else. The trouble is, you make it sound like your guidance is the be all and end all authority for everyone. Well, it ain't. Do you understand what you sound like? You sound like every guru that ever came down the road and claimed to have a direct line to God. When you claim to have been misunderstood, I can only think that you do not understand how you come across.

[You're basically correct about the above. People don't know what my guidance is about so it is best that they do as Justin suggested and find a way to get trustworthy information for themselves.]

This leads to the situation that Kathy described so well:"Interesting that you don't want to censored, but when it comes to someone else expressing their opinion you become argumentative in ways that show no respect for what another has to say. Other people have tried to discuss this with you previously, too.  Other people do have the right to speak out as well, but the two of you are so passionate about your hostilities against ACIM, gurus, etc. that you make it next to impossible for others to speak their own opinions for fear of being undermined or possibly even directly attacked, so maybe what I've said about using coercion may indeed apply to you both.  Not that coercion would be your intention, but that others would possibly feel thay way simply because you are so adament about it.  "

[The above is why on a previous post I mentioned what Justin is like in person. When I've spoken to him he was never pushy. Electronic communication is tricky. Some people might mistake delligence with pushyness. Not to say that I've never been pushy in the past. There have been occasions when I became overzealous. When it comes to this thread I haven't felt any angst at all. If people want to consider what I say, fine. If not, fine.]

It creates a situation where open conversation is not possible.

btw, Albert, the Hugh Prather quote is a little out of context as I believe Prather stayed in the ACIM community until his death in Nov? 2010. If he felt that way, why woul dhe stay?

You're welcome MJD.

Just Me wrote on Feb 19^th, 2012 at 2:06am:

Hi mjd, liked reading about your viewpoint, good post.

It is fine to listen to our higher self. But we don't want to put ourselves in the position where we can never learn anything from others.

Consider the soul groups some people speak of. Souls work together to learn what they need to learn. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with sharing our experiences and knowledge with others if doing so will be beneficial to whoever is interested.

Or in other words, I disagree with MJD's statement that it is irrelavant what others think of the book. It is sad when people try to be helpful to others and then other people minimize such efforts.

Just as MJD tried to be helpful towards JDE on another thread, some of us tried to be helpful on this thread.

recoverer wrote on Feb 19^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:


Hi Recoverer,

No, no, no. That's NOT what I meant at all. I am so sorry you felt I was minimizing others' contributions. I obviously did not convey my message very well (it's been a stressful few weeks here and my brain is in overdrive at the moment). My sincere apologies.

What I am trying to say is not that others' viewpoints aren't important or valuable or pertinent. Of course, we learn from other people all the time (negatively and positively). What I meant is that it's important to understand that we should not look to someone else to SOLELY make our decisions about the value of such things.

For example, when I was in college I met other students who hung on every word spoken by the professor. They never researched anything on their own, asked questions or considered the possibility the Professor may have his/her own biases for making certain statements. Some of these people were looking to their instructors as an end-all-be-all *answer* to the world instead of critically thinking about the situation for themselves. In that regard, I don't see blindly following a respected, tenured professor any different than following someone like Jim Jones. When we stop using our own intuition and inner-guidance as a way to determine what is true and valid for ourselves, we are giving away the power from within to whomever or whatever else (someone else's journey).

I NEVER meant or intended to imply that other people's opinions have no place in our world. It is practically impossible for everyone to experience everything for themselves. We are influenced by other people's viewpoints every single waking moment. My point was/is that we also need to trust in our interpretation of what that means in our life.

Recoverer, I can promise you that it is NEVER my intent to harm, offend or hurt another person. I'm not perfect, but I do make a conscientious effort every moment of my life to be understanding, compassionate and sincere. I am so sorry it was not received in the spirit in which it was written.

Please let me know if this helps clarify it better. If not, I will try again.

Kind regards,
mj

I'd like to add to the below that if this World becomes a place where people can never try to be helpful to others without it being characterized as a crime of some kind, that's sad.

It is fine to listen to our higher self. But we don't want to put ourselves in the position where we can never learn anything from others.

Consider the soul groups some people speak of. Souls work together to learn what they need to learn. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with sharing our experiences and knowledge with others if doing so will be beneficial to whoever is interested.

Or in other words, I disagree with MJD's statement that it is irrelavant what others think of the book. It is sad when people try to be helpful to others and then other people minimize such efforts.

Just as MJD tried to be helpful towards JDE on another thread, some of us tried to be helpful on this thread.

Hi Justin,

I don't necessarily associate being "uncomfortable" with a negative experience. I am uncomfortable trying to learn to parachute, but that's not necessarily negative. I'm just afraid of heights. (smile).

I never finished the book so I can't honestly say if my impressions are significant. I was merely commenting on it because others mentioned having experiences similar to mine. I don't know anyone in my physical environment that is even open to the idea of these types of conversations so it's not like I could go up to someone and say "Hey, check this out. Does it give you a weird vibe at all?" because the people in my physical world are typically generations deep in fundamental Christianity or absolute Atheist. These conversations just don't take place for me outside this forum.

With that said, I'm sorry my words were taken to mean something bad or discounting. I never intended them that way. My point was/is that we ultimately have control over the decisions we make so we should at least try to make our own conscientious choices about the value of the input we receive, regardless of the source.

Kind regards,
mj

Thanks Volu, Heisenberg69 and Kathy,

I'm glad you understood what I meant.

Kind regards,
mj

Wonderer:

Mainly through experiences it has become very clear to me that unfriendly beings can't force us to do something against our will. If we choose a love-based approach we'll be okay.

I've communicated with spirits quite a bit, and I make a point of determining whether a message comes from a friendly spirit rather than an unfriendly spirit.

I was rather unimpressed by ACIM.  Although I did find some of the exercises to have some value.  It did not strike me as coming from Jesus Christ.

Hi Justin,

I probably made a mistake in responding in this thread at all. I really just wanted to comment that I had an odd experience while trying to read this book. I never intended to step on toes. Nevertheless, I will continue the dialogue since I did speak up.

Quote:


Yes, I will be happy to share this information with you should this happen. I didn't plan to read it, but will try again to see if I can determine what may be causing the barrier.


Quote:


Yes, absolutely! In fact, I believe negative energies use credentialed and well-respected people in the world to disseminate hurtful information under the guise of helping.

Justin, I'm still a bit unclear on what I said that was wrong or bad. Admittedly, I've been under quite a bit of stress lately and haven't read everything in this thread. I was just trying to comment on my "strange" experience while trying to read this book. I didn't stick with it long enough or have enough interest in exploring the cause of that reaction, so I probably should have said nothing about it.

Kind regards,
mj

Just Me wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 12:14am:


  Hi Mj,

  You didn't say anything at wrong or bad at all,  nor did you step on any toes.  I'm not sure why you're even asking me that.  I was just trying to clarify some stuff out loud related to your various experiences.  Trying to see what you believe and think about different things that are possibly related.  Connecting the dots with curiosity. 

   My last comments were not directed to you, but kind of a silly moment of realizing how funny the situation is, in a sort of a tragic way.  Divine comedy you could say.   It would be a lot easier for me to not care, to be passive, to be apathetic, to not speak up, to go along with the crowd, etc., etc. 

   This didn't directly have anything to do with you, it's just been a good portion of my path.  I'm still very much human in the weak senses of the term, and sometimes i feel like throwing in the towel. 

  P.S., you don't need to read the whole book to ask guidance about it.  that wasn't even close to anything i was suggesting.  When i talk about tuning into guidance, i'm talking about a sort of meditation wherein you request help, etc. from only the most spiritually expanded, loving, helpful, etc. sources, bring up feelings of love and/or gratitude, ask a question, get still and listen for an answer.

  If Albert and i are correct, and ACIM does have a negative brainwashing effect, do you think i would want you to read the book to see what you get, just for the sake of curiosity?  This whole time, all we have been doing is trying to inspire people to actually find out for themselves the truth of this matter under the ideal circumstances.  But very few seem to actually see this. 

Quote:


Thank you for answering so candidly, Justin.


crossbow

  Hi Mj,

  Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful reply.  I hope you can get some rest and relaxation soon.  No rush for checking this out btw.

  Re: brainwashing, i was curious if you saw what Recoverer (whom i know and think of as Albert and who i've met and hung out with) wrote earlier about ACIM.  He earlier pointed out that a man named William Thetford had quite a hand in both the creation and promotion of ACIM. 

  William Thetford was like Helen Schucman (the technical author of ACIM), a psychologist, but unlike Helen it's fairly well documented that William was strongly involved with what use to be a CIA black ops project called "MK Ultra".  MK Ultra we now know through the freedom of information act was involved in researching and testing out some rather shady and dark things like mind control and brainwashing. 

    They also liked to run real, live experiments on these black projects.  It is well known that more shadowy aspects of the U.S. government has run experiments on different portions of the civilian population at our ignorance, suffering, and expense.  Just ask some more aware and learned black folks about this historical disgustingness.

  While the CIA has good elements and people in it, it also takes direction from those more truly in power, and those truly more in power don't always have our best interests in mind.  The CIA has always been 'for hire' in a sense, and they have always recruited some of the most clever, secretive people around willing to 'lie and deceive' for a cause.  Sometimes that cause is truly patriotic and sometimes its about money or the more dark intents of those more truly in power (which often relate to materialism, greed, and lust for more power). 

  Anyways, interesting no that ACIM is so strongly connected to someone who was so strongly connected to a CIA black ops project like MK Ultra?   Interesting that both Albert and i, along with others, have realized that it tends to have a negative, unbalancing, and ego increasing "brain washing" effect, no? 

  There are those in and outside of this world that what to see others free and liberated (people like Albert and i), and there are those in and outside of this world who want to keep humanity in the belief system chains and hamster wheel of constant suffering and ignorance.   This is a very important realization that many have not yet come to the full awareness of.  Even some who are somewhat aware of this, tend to underestimate the latter group too much or underestimate the complexity of the problems and issues going on with this constant struggle.

  The solution, as i've mentioned before, is always two fold.  Awareness without fear, and then attuning to a more PUL kind of Love.   Once both of those are more practiced, then the solution contains an important 3rd part, being active in "retrieving" and trying to make others more aware of the issues, problems, and solutions. 

  It's no different in some ways, then in retrieving a person stuck inbetween the physical and the more expanded nonphysical dimensions.  It's about helping to free up limiting belief systems and raising awareness of both the problems and of the solutions.  It's about facilitating that which is unconscious in nature, into the conscious so it can be worked on. 

  Thank you for listening Mj

 

 

Justin,
"[...] as regards the core and cause of these motivations and intents, it still doesn't make sense to me."

I can't see all of the huge picture neither but I do recognize power addiction as a possible detail. Power over others becoming a drug.

"[...] so that i can act as a effective and true liberator and retrieving of others eventually."

The fellow eating burgers for breakfast, lunch, dinner and as a late night snack, every day, may or may not want to hear others' opinions of it, including speaking of options appearing as liberating to the liberator. Stopping is as valid as continuing, to the fellow. Force feeding carrots isn't valid, because that's a choice belonging to the fellow. A liberator is only so if agreed upon by the fellow(s). Saving if saving isn't wanted has an element of power over others. One of several areas of mine that's come more and more into focus is how I act and have acted in this way about others' religious beliefs, which isn't my choice. Not afraid to state thoughts about it, but when the motion of blabbing words morphs into pushing, it becomes imposing, justified by knowing what's right for someone else. Which is both funny and tragic considering knowing what's best for self can be like getting a glimpse of the loch ness monster.

"My friend Albert has as well (which is why we vibe so well, our ideals and intents being so similar).  I hope more humans hop on this bandwagon sooner than later, for this Earth needs all the help it can get."

Earth will manage, but it's up to individuals to step up to their potentials for progression, which can be seen in astrology charts. Potentials. Even when hoops appear, and it's clear they're one's own path hoops, it's the way to go, even the higher self/You can't force she/himself to make the little self and selves to jump trough them. Showing and telling someone about their perceived potentials is different than lacing it with sugar and "help" them to eat it even when stating no. Advices differ vibrationally from yin or yang commands in the sense that the outcome is up to the one given the advice.

Crossbow:

I haven't received a detailed explanation as to why unfriendly beings want to influence people in a negative way. I also couldn't provide you with a detailed description of the precise manner in which they exist. The best I can say are the following three reasons:

1. Because they like negativity they want it to flourish.
2. They get a sick sense of pleasure through creating problems for others. Sort of like a bully or sadist.
3. They suck energy from the people they trouble.

How about you? Have you found anything out about this during your astral travels?


crossbow wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 12:44am:

Quote:


Hi MJ,

You are correct.  You do have "enough sense to stop when something doesn't feel right... [and use your] own intuition to discern what is valid." You absolutely have that power.  Everyone does because it is intrinsic to our nature as consciousness.

Consider that we exist in a huge, (bigger than we can ever imagine) consciousness system, which is basically an information system where information comes to us in an immense variety of ways.  A metaphor that gives a fairly good example is the Internet.  Each of us is connected to and at all times exist within this consciousness system sort of like being connected to the Internet.  We have access to it (the CS consciousness system) and the CS has access to us even if we are not aware of it. Never at any time are we separated from it.  It is only our earthly physics (rules and laws) that make us believe we are separate. 

The various planes of the CS (including the earth system) is governed by rules and laws where limits are positioned to produce optimum spiritual growth opportunities for us as an individualized consciousness.  The system itself is set up to encourage optimal growth by providing a wide range of possibilities from which we can make free will choices.  Even though we appear to exist in a physical body with a brain that is capable of "filtering" information we actually exist at all times as a part of this huge CS.

We, as sentient beings receive information from this CS such as thoughts, ideas, feelings, intuitions, etc. all the time.  I think of this as information that is sometimes "fed" to us from which we can make free will choices from.  Ideas, for example, could exist on the outer fringes of our consciousness and we might grab hold of one and play with it in our mind in the form of thoughts to see if it is viable or not. If the idea seems worthy of consideration, we might think it through looking at all the potential angles, etc.

If the idea sounds like something we might want to put into practice, we could "try it on" for size to see how it works out. If the idea is a good fit and looks beneficial, we may incorporate it, or internalize it for future reference.  If it's not a good fit or if it doesn't work out at any time present or future, we can discard it.  All the while we are reacting to the information we receive, we are using our own intuition to guide us.  That guidance system is built-in. It's not something separate from us.  We use it all the time even when we are not aware of doing so, however, the more conscious we become of using it, the more beneficial and natural it becomes.

Sentient beings, having fear and ego do make choices based on fear and ego.  Sometimes it is difficult to tell if our choice comes from fear/ego or if it comes from love. However, as a sentient being we have built into us an automatic feedback system such as our nervous system that helps us to determine which choices are the most beneficial... which choices are the most profitable to evolve within our being.  Positive and negative influence is everywhere and the process of exploring these extremes, making choices from the possibilities they present is what life is all about.  As I believe you mentioned in one of your posts... it's the journey. And you need not fear anything. Learning to let go of fear is the most optimal way to be.

Kathy

If anybody nods out while reading this thread, it isn't because it's over your head.

usetawuz wrote on Feb 20^th, 2012 at 4:33pm:

Hi Justin,

Quote:


The stress will be here for awhile. I'm trying to learn to relax in the midst of it all.

Quote:


No, I did not read all the responses to the initial post and did not read this from Recoverer (Albert).

I am aware of the governmental experiments but do not agree they are something from the past. They still happen all over the world and black people are not the only "guinea pigs" for these clandestine projects.

Quote:


Agreed. Although, I've never mentioned the CIA or conspiracies or anything else in my posts. I simply said that I had an uncomfortable experience while trying to read the book.

Quote:


Justin, this is true for all big businesses. I have worked inside many companies in various capacities and I have been faced with choices that go directly against my morals and values. I have been physically assaulted, sexually harassed, threatened to sign things against other people that were known to be false, demanded to share confidential information about others so it could be used to bully them. I even applied for a job through an agency and did not get it. One day EXACTLY after the no-compete clause expired, the owner of the company called me from his cell phone to offer me the job I supposedly didn't get before. In my own stupidity and honesty, I called the agency to let my recruiter know he called. She told me she would call him and get back to me. He denied ever calling me and the offer was, in effect, taken off the table. I contacted him to let him know I would be willing to pay the fee (since that is obviously why he chose to handle this the way he did) but he never responded. Some argue that I wouldn't want to work for that kind of company anyway because I would never know when he would stab me in the back. Regardless, I was without a job and lost one I qualified for and would have been hired for if I had been willing to circumvent the agency and cheat them our of their fee. Fortunately, at that time in my life, I did not have children and I was not the primary source of income in my family so I was able to continue to survive without that job (and, in spite of doing the "right thing"). Does anybody care that I made the ethical choice? No. Does anybody care I did what I was contractually obligated to do? No. People will only see that I've been unemployed for X number of years and hold that against me regardless of the circumstances. The point is simple. It is very easy to make the popular choice when a person is pushed into a corner (and it happens every single day in companies around the world). I could have had sex with my boss and kept my job. I could have had sex with my law professor and received my degree. I could have agreed to participate in weird sex games with another boss and kept my job. However, I made the choices to not do those things because I needed to live with myself. I don't know what I would have done if I was a single parent and my children were completely dependent on me for food and shelter. I'd like to think I would make the same *right* choice, but at what costs? Having my children in a shelter? Living on the streets with a cup begging for handouts? It's easy to judge other people and decide who is "bad" or "wrong" but we don't live in a society that is forgiving toward people who make the "right" choices.

It is very much the issue I have with how we treat our soldiers. We train these young men and women to become paranoid and killers. We do nothing to help them re-acclimate to our society where every corner does not hide the "enemy" and every child is not a trained killing machine. Our soldiers' families are often left destitute while they serve to preserve our freedoms (however, unreal they are).

Justin, we don't live in a society that rewards "good" behavior. We live in a world that permits (and encourages) us to get ahead by stepping on someone else's throat. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it is and to single out CIA agents as the root of all evil does seem a bit myopic. They are trained to do a job just like the rest of us and they are rewarded for their compliance and obedience. Doctors routinely prescribe medications they know nothing about and ignore the report side-effects and any deaths as "acceptable losses." Are they bad and evil or are they doing their jobs as they understand it to be? Only people who've been harmed or lost a loved one to doctors' mistakes care to talk about it and really research what happens to unsuspecting patients all the time. Why are doctors heralded as heroes when their business also kills people and hides their mistakes? I'm not trying to single out doctors as all bad. I'm trying to make illustrate my point. [/quote]

 
Quote:


Justin, I don't discount your viewpoint and I do find it curious. I do believe there are things going on behind the scenes that we are being lied to about. However, it begs the question. Why wouldn't *they* just use someone who has a clean background so this information could be disseminated without the questionable background of one its authors? I'm not saying your position is wrong or false. I agree that it's easier to fool many people with lights and rainbows than knocking them over the head.

Quote:


Justin, we've had a few pm conversations and I get the impression you're a nice guy. This whole paragraph just reeks of self-righteousness and judgment. Is that really how you intended it to come off?

Quote:


Well, it is a bit hard not to be scared out of one's mind when presented with this kind of information. Seriously. Who, in their right mind, would want to know their own government is lying to them and using them for random experiments for which they have no recourse? Not only that, but it's being done under the guise of helping? That's a bit hard to take in even for those of us who aren't unaware. It's scary stuff and it's hard to hear/read. That doesn't mean we should just ignore it, but there might be an easier way to introduce the information to people as to not scare them half-to-death.

Quote:


Okay, but do you think you've achieved that goal in your statements in this thread? Do you sense that anyone has come to understand the situation better and is ready to hop on the bandwagon and help educate the ignorant masses about it? The point is simple. Is it possible to raise awareness and lift a hand to help others understand without making people feel stupid for not knowing and/or understanding? How does that help the goal?

Quote:


Thank you for talking/writing.

Kind regards,
mj

Quote:


huh?  You mean due to the 2012 speculated changes?

Also, I'm not sure if you are using other mass communication to spread your message, but surely through this forum, I don't think you are reaching many people anyway...

Cheers

Quote:


Hi Justin Thanks, I take that as a compliment (being funny and comedian). But no, honestly, you got it all wrong. I'm not playing any games or trying to make fun in here. I'm really a newbie trying to learn and get opinions etc! It's true about that other poster! Honestly, it must have been a coincidence, unless somehow he got to know of my post and came here to reply.

I'm sorry if my posts sounded silly, or stupid, or funny and that they are now bothering you, or maybe making them silly. It's not my intention. Also know that english is not my first language, so maybe I could be getting out the wrong message/vibe.

I love reading your posts and it's great to get opinions, especially from people like you (even though you have to read your posts 3 times to understand what you write as they are very deep, lots of info to process, or maybe my tiny brain ), who are obviously very deep not not the "normal-Joe-you-meet-everyday". I kinda miss discussing these kind of stuff in my daily life, cause I find them to be very very few.

Dear Justin, I'm no paid comedian at all! In fact, I'm quite "the non sociable guy in the corner" type! I'm in IT, just a nerd, well let' say a geek, sounds better

Anyway, I'll try to be more careful what I write and maybe the way I write them. Sometimes we are not aware how others take our posts, heh. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to read/participate in threads on this very interesting forum! There is always something to learn and think about!

Have a nice day mate

Cheers
Wonderer

Quote:


Not sure where Justin. Maybe if you point me to them I'll be able to explain? It could be a misunderstanding.

Quote:


No worries mate. Hope I didn't waste to much of your time...now get your arse on that book and keep us updated.

Cheers

recoverer wrote on Feb 21^st, 2012 at 1:04pm:


Thanks recoverer. I had another username for this forum, very long time ago, years ago. The forum was even different back then. I was first introduced to the afterlife info through this site. I remember back then, it was so exciting to read about the afterlife from a totally different perspective. Anyway, I had forgotten my old username, maybe it has even been deleted since its many years ago.

Lately, I had re-discovered this forum and hence here I am I'm quite green when it comes to the afterlife info, so maybe that is why my posts sound silly...dunna know.

PS: Isn't the IP logged. Maybe someone can  check

Cheers

Quote:


I have learnt a very good lesson today, and I thank you for that.

You have just proved to me that one can never 100% trust or believe whatever we read or hear cause people are fallible, misjudge, assume and their intuition could be wrong at times.

Your feeling intuition was totally wrong this time, I can be sure of that, since I know that I am here sincerely and not to distract.

Sometimes, people psycho analyze too much and what could be a very simple thing, they make it huge and complex. The mind has powerful and complex though systems, and I think at times people need to hold the horses and not get carried away...

Food for though my friend.


Cheers

Very well said Justin. It's true, you did say "fairly" I used to be naive in the past too, thought that everyone had good intentions, but like you said we always learn through life.

It's very interesting (and scary in a way!) to know that dark entities roam around us. I wonder why they come around as they cannot do anything (except maybe instilling negative thoughts?) to us, cant they?

Let me know if you get anything about me from the Guides, that would be very interesting!

Cheers

crossbow wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 8:36am:


  I find all personality interactions quite interesting!  Growing up as a kid, i had some rather odd ideas and feelings as society counts it.   One of the more odd ones, was the feeling and desire to know and be friends with everybody.  And while i was a raised in a non-religious environ, i did hear a little about "Satan" here and there and i remember feeling and thinking, as a 5 year old, "poor Satan, maybe if someone talked to him and loved him, he might change."

  In any case, i think i have solved the "mystery' here.  He is more a friend than i thought (though i was correct about the insincerity). 

just my two cents:

I worked intensively with ACIM in 1997, read about two thirds of the textbook, took the first 50 lessons of the workbook, read the manual for teachers and the later addendum on psychotherapy.
Had aura photos taken before, during, and after this period of time. Before and after my aura on thephotos was multi-coloured, and in the middle of the period of time when I worked so intensively with ACIM, it was completely green.

My impression of the ACIM material was that the whole message is totally included in the opening sentences:
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.
(if I remember it correctly)

Then the first chapter is about miracles, very beautiful.

The following material of the textbook seems to detail the message to who has not understood it yet, the later chapters I found too dark, too much dealing with dark things.
Perhaps it is the didactic tactics of the book. Tell the short form of the message first, then expand more and more for whoever needs it more detailed.

The exercises are for reprogramming our mental paradigms, I found the exercises interesting and effective and very positive and lightful.

  Hi Oliver,

  I've had a (very) long time interest in auras and color meaning, which is why i'm a bit confused by what you mentioned about auras in relation to ACIM.  What do you think the after, the green aura, signifies? 

  From my experience and research, green in and of itself is not a particularly spirituallized color vibration by any means, even in the nicer, brighter, more clear mid emeralds etc (though a nice vibration/emanation overall and shows the beginnings of real morals, integrity and some Love awareness).   Green is one of the most "varied" colors there are as far as meaning.   Some green shades in the aura, like the darker and/or more muddy greens, like the drab olives, dark forest greens, etc. when found in prominence can often indicate a definite lack of spiritual attunement.

   When green shows up strongly in an aura, often times it indicates a lot of change and testing going on in a person's life.  It's very much related to the Planet Saturn in astrology and it's cycles, especially when deeper in color and tone.   The more bright, clear, and mid tones are more related to Venus, and like Venus a little "softer" in meaning. 

  If ACIM "caused" or facilitated great spiritual attunement in a person, then i would expect at the very least, the nice, bright, clear but deeper blues to show up, but if we're talking real transformation, then i would expect the violets, certain purple shades, and especially the Golden or even more pure White Light. 

The latter two especially indicate quite an attunement to PUL, and a lot of consciousness maturity and growth when found in prominence in an aura.  These are rare even in smaller quantities and blends.  From my experience with ACIM, i really doubt it would facilitate such changes within self that would be reflected in these kinds of emanations.   One thing about auras is that they "do not lie".  They always reflect what a person is on different levels.

  As different sources have stated as regards auras, the more expanded the consciousness, the more clearly and purely attuned to PUL, the more the color vibration frequency increases.  Hence, blue is more spiritualized (expanded in consciousness) than green, and indigo, violet, and purple more than blue, and gold more than purple etc., and White Light is kind of the alpha and omega, it's the ultimate--represents Source Consciousness.  (It's extremely rare for a human to have only a pure, radiant, White Light aura--The Teacher had/has one, though sometimes switches to the more golden white).

  Personally, i found that ACIM slowed down my vibratory emanations.  Funny and coincidentally enough, i was going through a very strong Saturn cycle when i came up and got involved with ACIM.   It was when transiting Saturn was going through my 1st House (the MOST amplifying area of a chart).   Or in other words, green was also showing up strongly in my aura around that time.  It was one of the most testing and change filled periods of my life, and my shadow side got stirred up quite strongly.  In a sense it was positive because eventually i realized what i needed to work on more, because i was getting my stuck aspects so strongly reflected back to me in various ways. 

  In astrology, Saturn is akin to the concept of "Satan", it is the spiritual tester par excellence, it symbolizes the more conscious aspect of the shadow (Pluto symbolizes the more unconscious aspect of same), and in a character sense is often associated with more selfish and materialistic tendencies which relate to concentrated fear and worry.   But it plays a necessary role of strengthening the Soul through hard to accept change, testing, and temptation and bringing those more shadow and stuck aspects of self to the conscious to be better worked on. 

  For me, ACIM was a very Saturnian experience, and ultimately i gained spiritually from the experience though not in a direct sense of ACIM facilitated growth, awareness, etc.

From ancient times people have described this world as an illusion, as being unreal and now even scientists are saying this could be true in saying that this world is a virtual reality, where the only fundamental thing that really exists is consciousness.  The way various groups describe this is a matter of semantics and metaphors.  Metaphors are not so much right or wrong, but how they are more or less useful to someone.

According to this theory, the only reason this world appears to be fundamentally real and separate from everything else is because of the rules/laws that govern it.  The only reason we appear to be sentient physical beings is because of the sensory qualities that are a part of the rule set. The purpose in this is for the evolution of consciousness, consciousness being fundamental.

The white room metaphor is one that I think describes this well.  Consciousness, (God if you want to call it that) is all ONE thing and NEVER a separate being, nor are we separate from it.  However, consciousness having free will creates virtual realities by defining rules/laws for it and us to learn and grow and evolve in.  The Bible espouses this idea as well in Acts 17: 24-28 - "... in him we live and move and have our being..." 

Even the non-physical realms are virtual realities that only appear real because of the laws/rules defined by consciousness.  However, it does seem there is good reason for realities to appear very real, otherwise the purpose for their creation would not be as effective.

Recoverer-

maybe its all about the process of reconnection/rediscovery to source that is the big payoff. I suppose the important point is that we can never actually be separate but only think ourselves so. To use an analogy from the morality thread my son could never 'un-son' himself from me whatever his actions. I have never understood it when people say 'you are no son of mine if you do x,y or z'. To this I always thought you may not approve of his actions but you cannot undo the connection.Maybe we (humanity) are like the sons who mistakenly think we can.

Quote:


So when you combine that thought with the Big Bang concept, how do you think that work?

Interesting how much traffic here about ACIM
Seems to be a very controversial subject and getting lots of emotional reactions.
Why is that?
It is a tool you can use, it does not make sense to "over-use" it or apply it to what it is not meant for. Like with all tools, you can hurt yourself with it, too.

@recoverer: I think that "real" / "unreal" is subjective to the experiencer. A dream is experienced as reality and is real then in the experience within the dream. If everything is real, then what does the word "unreal" mean? I can't answer this question, but want to give an example:
Our daily mental thoughts that run through our conscious day-awake minds, they are extremely redundant and superfluous and deal mostly with fantasies instead of immediate reality that has to be dealt with.

@Justin: I think "green" is the color of "healing power", but I'm not expert in aura interpretation. I felt mainly pure unconditional love at that time. It was also a time of life changes, and it was the time when a comet (Hale-Bopp?) was visible in the sky for six weeks.
before ACIM (1996):
www.okx.de/images/aura01-1.jpg
during ACIM (1997):
www.okx.de/images/aura02-1.jpg
after ACIM (2000):
www.okx.de/images/aura03-1.jpg
last (2010):
www.okx.de/images/aura10-1.jpg

recoverer:

Totally agree to your definition/description of what is real - I also regard as real what is experienced as real, be it on whatever illusionary plane of existence whatsoever, it is all relative.
real / unreal is a dualistic concept, it has no meaning when you see without preconceptions. The ACIM exercises are designed to facilitate seeing without preconceptions. If you have read the instructions, then you know what I mean. First comes the un-learning of the old conditioning, and then you can see. As in the example of the cup that is full and can't have new tea poured into, so it first must be emptied.

Regarding potential harmfulness of books, I tend a very liberal position towards it and am surprised that a discussion thread about ACIM explodes so emotionally.
There is so much that can be harmful, probably almost everything in this world can be, probably all books can be mis-used for fantasizing onself into unhealthy beliefs and states of mind.
ACIM is a book that can be used for re-conditioning one's own mind, it is something like NLP (neuro-linguistic programming).
Not every book is good for everyone, but that does not say much about the book.