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What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"? (Read 57690 times)
Justin aka Vasya
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #105 - Feb 23rd, 2012 at 10:54am
 
Wonderer wrote on Feb 22nd, 2012 at 12:45pm:
It's very interesting (and scary in a way!) to know that dark entities roam around us. I wonder why they come around as they cannot do anything (except maybe instilling negative thoughts?) to us, cant they?


  Generally speaking, in most cases, we are protected from direct physical harm and interference.  But, since we are on this Earth ultimately for the sole reason of Consciousness growth, and these opportunities here are somewhat sacred in nature (which is why The Teacher called the body, the Temple)...

  Then being spiritually mislead and staying stuck is in a sense harmful and quite undesirable, is it not?

  Not only that, in a reality of Oneness and connectedness, our vibratory emanations and our thoughts, feelings, etc. both unconscious and conscious have an affect on other individuals and also ultimately the Whole as well. 

   If we ourselves as individuals become a pure channel of purely Creative-Constructive Consciousness, then we help lift up other individuals and the Whole.  We help to heal the Whole and to we speed up the process of the end of sufferingThis is to be greatly desired.   But hey, don't take my word for it, ask the Big Cheese and Monroe's "He/She" folks.   Why do you think they put so much effort, work, and intensity into healing themselves??????

  Because they wanted to see The Whole fully Whole and healed.

  Why do we do Retrievals?   There is so much more to retrieving than focusing on those stuck between the physical and the more purely nonphysical levels.  Humanity itself is being "retrieved" in various different ways, and helpers also come here to retrieve more directly, thus helping people to bypass the necessity of the other kinds of retrievals. 

  When one is truly more aware consciously of Oneness, and not just intellectually theorizing about it, then one really starts to feel the suffering of others and it hurts self too.  Self might be motivated strongly to be a part in transforming, like that little 4 yr old self who spoke of becoming dr. everywhere.

  So put all the above together, it all fits.  If one is influenced by strong and extremely lacking in Light consciousnesses, then one is not only keeping themselves stuck, but ultimately they are also partaking in keeping the Whole fractured and unhealthy.

  Personally, it just makes more sense to me to be more active and Yang in this whole process.   Maybe this is why Tom Campbell perceives the "Big Cheese" as definitely more "male" in nature?  Since "maleness" or Yang is that of ACTIVENESS. 

  If it's good enough for the Big Cheese, it's good enough for me.   Wink   It's not an area to be Yin and passive if one is really and truly more aware of the big picture. 
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Oliver
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #106 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:50pm
 
just my two cents:

I worked intensively with ACIM in 1997, read about two thirds of the textbook, took the first 50 lessons of the workbook, read the manual for teachers and the later addendum on psychotherapy.
Had aura photos taken before, during, and after this period of time. Before and after my aura on thephotos was multi-coloured, and in the middle of the period of time when I worked so intensively with ACIM, it was completely green.

My impression of the ACIM material was that the whole message is totally included in the opening sentences:
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.
(if I remember it correctly)

Then the first chapter is about miracles, very beautiful.

The following material of the textbook seems to detail the message to who has not understood it yet, the later chapters I found too dark, too much dealing with dark things.
Perhaps it is the didactic tactics of the book. Tell the short form of the message first, then expand more and more for whoever needs it more detailed.

The exercises are for reprogramming our mental paradigms, I found the exercises interesting and effective and very positive and lightful.
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recoverer
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #107 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 8:27pm
 
Oliver:

You know, because of some of the things you've said on posts you wrote in the past, I figured that you have read ACIM. On some of those posts I got the impression that you emphasized the "unreal" thing too much.

On the one hand this World is just a big dream. On the other hand this dream comes from Source Being, and since Source Being is real this World can't be completely unreal.

This World serves a purpose. It provides our souls with a way to learn. ACIM seems to miss this point.

ACIM says that God didn't create this World because everything God creates is perfect. If this is true, then apparently something other than God created this World.

Even if this is so (doubtful) didn't God create this supposed non-God creator? If so, how could this something be imperfect enough to create a World that is imperfect, if everything God created is perfect?

One of the shortcomings of ACIM is that it tries to make it seem as if God is separate from this World. It takes this all or nothing approach that until one undoes the separation he will not have God in his life.

I don't believe this is an accurate way of defining things. One might as well say that either a person lives according to love completely, or not at all. The fact of the matter is that people live according to love to varying degrees. It is not an all or nothing matter.

If a person reads numerous passages within a book that state that they are separate from God, and he believes this book is an infallible source of information, he might end up conditioning himself in a way where he feels as if he is separate from God.

If a person reads a repetitive text and repeats affirmations that lead to the belief that this World is unreal, he might become psychologically conditioned in a way that is out of context. His feeling about the World's reality will be influenced by the frame of mind that says that it isn't real. It probably won't be based on an accurate and balanced understanding of what's true.

Since a lot of people in this World are suffering intensely and a lot needs to be fixed, we don't want to be premature and say something such as, "that suffering over there isn't real, because nothing I see is real."
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #108 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 3:03am
 
  Hi Oliver,

  I've had a (very) long time interest in auras and color meaning, which is why i'm a bit confused by what you mentioned about auras in relation to ACIM.  What do you think the after, the green aura, signifies? 

  From my experience and research, green in and of itself is not a particularly spirituallized color vibration by any means, even in the nicer, brighter, more clear mid emeralds etc (though a nice vibration/emanation overall and shows the beginnings of real morals, integrity and some Love awareness).   Green is one of the most "varied" colors there are as far as meaning.   Some green shades in the aura, like the darker and/or more muddy greens, like the drab olives, dark forest greens, etc. when found in prominence can often indicate a definite lack of spiritual attunement.

   When green shows up strongly in an aura, often times it indicates a lot of change and testing going on in a person's life.  It's very much related to the Planet Saturn in astrology and it's cycles, especially when deeper in color and tone.   The more bright, clear, and mid tones are more related to Venus, and like Venus a little "softer" in meaning. 

  If ACIM "caused" or facilitated great spiritual attunement in a person, then i would expect at the very least, the nice, bright, clear but deeper blues to show up, but if we're talking real transformation, then i would expect the violets, certain purple shades, and especially the Golden or even more pure White Light. 

The latter two especially indicate quite an attunement to PUL, and a lot of consciousness maturity and growth when found in prominence in an aura.  These are rare even in smaller quantities and blends.  From my experience with ACIM, i really doubt it would facilitate such changes within self that would be reflected in these kinds of emanations.   One thing about auras is that they "do not lie".  They always reflect what a person is on different levels.

  As different sources have stated as regards auras, the more expanded the consciousness, the more clearly and purely attuned to PUL, the more the color vibration frequency increases.  Hence, blue is more spiritualized (expanded in consciousness) than green, and indigo, violet, and purple more than blue, and gold more than purple etc., and White Light is kind of the alpha and omega, it's the ultimate--represents Source Consciousness.  (It's extremely rare for a human to have only a pure, radiant, White Light aura--The Teacher had/has one, though sometimes switches to the more golden white).

  Personally, i found that ACIM slowed down my vibratory emanations.  Funny and coincidentally enough, i was going through a very strong Saturn cycle when i came up and got involved with ACIM.   It was when transiting Saturn was going through my 1st House (the MOST amplifying area of a chart).   Or in other words, green was also showing up strongly in my aura around that time.  It was one of the most testing and change filled periods of my life, and my shadow side got stirred up quite strongly.  In a sense it was positive because eventually i realized what i needed to work on more, because i was getting my stuck aspects so strongly reflected back to me in various ways. 

  In astrology, Saturn is akin to the concept of "Satan", it is the spiritual tester par excellence, it symbolizes the more conscious aspect of the shadow (Pluto symbolizes the more unconscious aspect of same), and in a character sense is often associated with more selfish and materialistic tendencies which relate to concentrated fear and worry.   But it plays a necessary role of strengthening the Soul through hard to accept change, testing, and temptation and bringing those more shadow and stuck aspects of self to the conscious to be better worked on. 

  For me, ACIM was a very Saturnian experience, and ultimately i gained spiritually from the experience though not in a direct sense of ACIM facilitated growth, awareness, etc.
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heisenberg69
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #109 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 9:37am
 
recoverer wrote on Feb 25th, 2012 at 8:27pm:
Oliver:

You know, because of some of the things you've said on posts you wrote in the past, I figured that you have read ACIM. On some of those posts I got the impression that you emphasized the "unreal" thing too much.

On the one hand this World is just a big dream. On the other hand this dream comes from Source Being, and since Source Being is real this World can't be completely unreal.

This World serves a purpose. It provides our souls with a way to learn. ACIM seems to miss this point.

ACIM says that God didn't create this World because everything God creates is perfect. If this is true, then apparently something other than God created this World.

Even if this is so (doubtful) didn't God create this supposed non-God creator? If so, how could this something be imperfect enough to create a World that is imperfect, if everything God created is perfect?

One of the shortcomings of ACIM is that it tries to make it seem as if God is separate from this World. It takes this all or nothing approach that until one undoes the separation he will not have God in his life.

I don't believe this is an accurate way of defining things. One might as well say that either a person lives according to love completely, or not at all. The fact of the matter is that people live according to love to varying degrees. It is not an all or nothing matter.

If a person reads numerous passages within a book that state that they are separate from God, and he believes this book is an infallible source of information, he might end up conditioning himself in a way where he feels as if he is separate from God.

If a person reads a repetitive text and repeats affirmations that lead to the belief that this World is unreal, he might become psychologically conditioned in a way that is out of context. His feeling about the World's reality will be influenced by the frame of mind that says that it isn't real. It probably won't be based on an accurate and balanced understanding of what's true.

Since a lot of people in this World are suffering intensely and a lot needs to be fixed, we don't want to be premature and say something such as, "that suffering over there isn't real, because nothing I see is real."


Recoverer-

I know you're not a fan of his but I find Walsch's analogy of the White Room an interesting counterpoint to ACIM's separation as a 'mad' idea suggestion. Basically NDW's point is that without the appearence of separation God cannot experience him/herself because like a white room in which everything inside is white there is no frame of reference i.e. nothing is non-white.In this way the experience of difference or relativity has a useful purpose. There is no way of scientifically checking this out but I prefer this metaphor to ACIM's 'crazy' idea metaphor.
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Lights of Love
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #110 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 12:14pm
 
From ancient times people have described this world as an illusion, as being unreal and now even scientists are saying this could be true in saying that this world is a virtual reality, where the only fundamental thing that really exists is consciousness.  The way various groups describe this is a matter of semantics and metaphors.  Metaphors are not so much right or wrong, but how they are more or less useful to someone.

According to this theory, the only reason this world appears to be fundamentally real and separate from everything else is because of the rules/laws that govern it.  The only reason we appear to be sentient physical beings is because of the sensory qualities that are a part of the rule set. The purpose in this is for the evolution of consciousness, consciousness being fundamental.

The white room metaphor is one that I think describes this well.  Consciousness, (God if you want to call it that) is all ONE thing and NEVER a separate being, nor are we separate from it.  However, consciousness having free will creates virtual realities by defining rules/laws for it and us to learn and grow and evolve in.  The Bible espouses this idea as well in Acts 17: 24-28 - "... in him we live and move and have our being..." 

Even the non-physical realms are virtual realities that only appear real because of the laws/rules defined by consciousness.  However, it does seem there is good reason for realities to appear very real, otherwise the purpose for their creation would not be as effective.

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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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recoverer
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #111 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 2:24pm
 
Heisenberg:

Sort of related to what you wrote, last night I watched an old Star Trek episode. I don't know the episode name, its the one where they go to a planet and a flower realeases a chemical that causes them to feel as if only love matters and everything is perfect. It was fine how they felt; however, they lacked wisdom and were stuck in such a state without having a choice.

I figure the perfection we seek includes wisdom and going through experiences such as this World help us gain wisdom. When we find perfection it is something we will choose with our eyes wide opened.
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heisenberg69
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #112 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 5:59am
 
Recoverer-

maybe its all about the process of reconnection/rediscovery to source that is the big payoff. I suppose the important point is that we can never actually be separate but only think ourselves so. To use an analogy from the morality thread my son could never 'un-son' himself from me whatever his actions. I have never understood it when people say 'you are no son of mine if you do x,y or z'. To this I always thought you may not approve of his actions but you cannot undo the connection.Maybe we (humanity) are like the sons who mistakenly think we can.
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heisenberg69
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #113 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 6:08am
 
'the only fundamental thing that really exists is consciousness'

Kathy-

that is the premise of the book 'The Self-Aware Universe' by Amit Goswami (Professor of physics at Oregon University). That consciousness is primary (not a mere by-product) is not a new idea but its nice to know that it has some support from modern science making it more approachable to people not from an Eastern tradition.

D
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #114 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 11:15am
 
Quote:
'the only fundamental thing that really exists is consciousness'


So when you combine that thought with the Big Bang concept, how do you think that work?
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recoverer
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #115 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 1:54pm
 
If consciousness didn't have anything to be  aware of, it wouldn't serve much of a purpose. Say it is aware of love and peace. If so, then more than pure awareness exists. If one says that love and awareness aren't separate from consciousness, then perhaps other things such as intelligence and the creative aspect of being also aren't separate from consciousness.

If this is so, then perhaps people make a mistake when they overly focus on the  consciousness aspect of being and feel as if they have to push eveything else away.  Perhaps pushing love, peace, intelligence and the creative aspect of being away isn't any different than pushing consciousness away. When one does so one pushes away parts of one's self. Why would a sane person seek to do such a thing?

When it comes to love, it is more than an energy one feels. Love also contains much intelligence.

I've found that people who over emphasize consciosness and the so-called unreality of the manifested "part" of reality don't have a comprehensive and balanced perspective of what reality is all about. Eventually they'll find that in order to become a fully integrated being they'll have to embrace all parts of themselves. When I say this I don't mean that they need to cling to negative tendencies of mind.
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Oliver
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #116 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 4:42pm
 
Interesting how much traffic here about ACIM Smiley
Seems to be a very controversial subject and getting lots of emotional reactions.
Why is that?
It is a tool you can use, it does not make sense to "over-use" it or apply it to what it is not meant for. Like with all tools, you can hurt yourself with it, too.

@recoverer: I think that "real" / "unreal" is subjective to the experiencer. A dream is experienced as reality and is real then in the experience within the dream. If everything is real, then what does the word "unreal" mean? I can't answer this question, but want to give an example:
Our daily mental thoughts that run through our conscious day-awake minds, they are extremely redundant and superfluous and deal mostly with fantasies instead of immediate reality that has to be dealt with.

@Justin: I think "green" is the color of "healing power", but I'm not expert in aura interpretation. I felt mainly pure unconditional love at that time. It was also a time of life changes, and it was the time when a comet (Hale-Bopp?) was visible in the sky for six weeks.
before ACIM (1996):
www.okx.de/images/aura01-1.jpg
during ACIM (1997):
www.okx.de/images/aura02-1.jpg
after ACIM (2000):
www.okx.de/images/aura03-1.jpg
last (2010):
www.okx.de/images/aura10-1.jpg
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recoverer
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #117 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 5:10pm
 
Oliver:

If you read the posts that Justin and I wrote, perhaps you'll see why we consider the subject important. Perhaps what some people have noticed doesn't get negated simply because others haven't noticed the same. Does a person like a self-serving politician become okay simply because some people haven't noticed that he is self-serving?

Regarding real versus unreal, I figure if something is experienced it is real even if it doesn't exist for all of eternity because if it didn't exist in "some way" it couldn't be experienced.  "Experience" is real.

Or another way to put it, I believe that what we experience during a dream exists while we experience it.

Plus, even though life in this World is a temporary form of existence, it is substantial enough so that we can learn from it. If something helps our souls grow, that something couldn't be completely unsubstantial.

Some people say this World is just a play of mind. My feeling is that mind interacts with "something" when it causes this so-called play of mind to take place. In order for mind to interact with this "something," this "something" has to exist in some way.

Perhaps this something is a part of our beingness. Is our beingness real?

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Oliver
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #118 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 5:18pm
 
recoverer:

Totally agree to your definition/description of what is real - I also regard as real what is experienced as real, be it on whatever illusionary plane of existence whatsoever, it is all relative.
real / unreal is a dualistic concept, it has no meaning when you see without preconceptions. The ACIM exercises are designed to facilitate seeing without preconceptions. If you have read the instructions, then you know what I mean. First comes the un-learning of the old conditioning, and then you can see. As in the example of the cup that is full and can't have new tea poured into, so it first must be emptied.

Regarding potential harmfulness of books, I tend a very liberal position towards it and am surprised that a discussion thread about ACIM explodes so emotionally.
There is so much that can be harmful, probably almost everything in this world can be, probably all books can be mis-used for fantasizing onself into unhealthy beliefs and states of mind.
ACIM is a book that can be used for re-conditioning one's own mind, it is something like NLP (neuro-linguistic programming).
Not every book is good for everyone, but that does not say much about the book.
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recoverer
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Re: What's your opinion on "A Course in Miracles"?
Reply #119 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 5:36pm
 
Oliver:

I wouldn't make it illegal to read a book.  Regarding ACIM's harmfullness, not all people get involved with it to the same degree. Some people have been brainwashed by it.

Not all books are equal in this regard. If a book has the purpose of brainwashing people it is more likely to do so to varying degrees than a book that doesn't have such a goal.

Regarding the real/unreal thing, perhaps it is more accurate to say that we can do with our beingness whatever we want.  While doing so some beings get stuck in their own projections for a while. This physical World is set up so it is more fixed than other modes of creation because its rigidity enables a unique kind of learning to take place.




Quote:
recoverer:

Totally agree to your definition/description of what is real - I also regard as real what is experienced as real, be it on whatever illusionary plane of existence whatsoever, it is all relative.

Regarding potential harmfulness of books, I tend a very liberal position towards it. If no one was hurt in the process of creating a book, then may everyone write whatever they want, that is "freedom of speech".

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