Quote:


Justin,

If you don't mind me asking; are you aware of any particulars of the life of the Gentile during that time?
Such as the personality type, social role/position, life highlights, relationship to others and to Jesus' following, ...that sort of thing?

I know these sorts of things can be obscured but I just wondered if you were aware of any particulars.

Thank you,

crossbow

recoverer wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 2:33pm:


Of course he knew they would pay attention to him, even worship him, because its natural, and because many could do no other, and he made full use of them doing so, by ensuring his life was an accurate physical model and representation of his greater message. So that their worshipping "him" would ignite the virtue in them. So that those people with concrete minds who cannot grasp the concept of love and forgiveness in its abstract sense (formless & energetic sense) - for their concrete thinking can only create in thought what they can physically see and hear - can envisage and worship His person and personal life story and pray to Him the man. And because he made his life an accurate physical reflection of his message, by their focusing on their idea of "him" and his life, their minds and hearts could - via that idea - tune with and tap into the greater concept of the boundless love, which is the message he came to teach and demonstrate. The shape/form/structure of the man and his demonstrated life, when imagined, loved and worshiped, carries into the worshiper a seed of the quality of the great shapeless concept of unconditional love, which without an imagined container to give it shape and form and quality, could not be fathomed by someone unfamiliar with it. 
 
Recoverer, with due respect, you write like you think that because you have caught hold of the concept of "unconditional love" that therefore your level of understanding of the concept is all that others should need. But why do you put off those with less comprehensive ability than your own from comprehending Jesus' message in their way. Do you think that those with less ability than yourself to comprehend the wider concept should not be catered for?...their needs not met?...perhaps you don't care for them and think that if they don't get the concept then too bad for them?

So if you were in "His" sandals, how would you have taught your "unconditional love" to those who had no inkling of the concept; whose hearts had not yet known the feeling of imparting unconditional love; whose minds could not fathom formless abstract concepts but could only reproduce in thought what they had physically seen and heard; who could not fathom virtue as a shapeless force, but only as personified and demonstrated in human form and action? Or could not even fathom it in human form, but only in God form?...and not as internal God, but only as external God?  How would you have taught "unconditional love" to them?

Perhaps you would have just kept repeating the term "unconditional love" at them, and looking at them like you thought you were clever and they were silly for not understanding what the term means.

And what if by chance there were a few who were able to vaguely grasp the concept, despite you only speaking it like a parrot and not demonstrate it with your life, how would you throw those ones off? Perhaps you would then encode the concept in an acronym like PUL to make it extra tricky for them and that way you could speak about it with your friends and better keep it from those ones who might otherwise figure it out.   

Fortunately, Jesus knew how to teach masses of people. And he did not mind if they worshiped him, if that carried the message and idea of what love is into their minds and hearts. He was not so proud that he would stop people worshipping him as the embodiment of his message, as long as they got the message. He was the reverse of secretive, he taught on all communicative levels; his words, actions, and even the model of his life carried his message, so that even when people worshiped the messenger instead of the message, or confused and blended the two together, and even people who could not grasp the message at all but could only know and worship the messenger and his example, the message still got across and took seed because he built it into his person and into his example of living. 

Christ the spirit of love for Earth is happy to be communicated with directly, or via his Personification. And the Personification, Jesus, is happy for people to communicate directly to the Christ, or via Himself. Neither have hang-ups about it. Its all about what suits the individual.

But then, as the Christ said to one Christian: "Why speak to my personification when you can speak to me?"   

crossbow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2011 at 10:45am:


  Hi Crossbow,

  Yes, i am aware of a number of the particulars.  I've also met a few individuals that i've received info about us being connected to each other in that life.  (these were more closely personal connections though, family, lover type).   Oddly, some of those past patterns played out eerily similar to, but reversed, in this life. 

  What about yourself?

I'd like to add something that sort of relates to what I just wrote.

I have three friends I discuss spiritual subjects with (we do so verbally). None of us belongs to a spiritual group so we basically state our own beliefs and understandings rather than beliefs that come from somebody else.

One key thing that enables us to communicate in a harmonious way is that none of us feels compelled to get the other person to believe as we believe.  Yet, we are open to learn from each other.

If I was a member of a church where a particular way of thinking was followed, I doubt that such purposeful and harmonious communication could take place.

I believe it is possible that Jesus did not have it in mind that people should limit themselves by attaching to a particular belief system that is defined by the person (or people) who put themselves in charge.  My guess is that Jesus' approach was more like Bruce Moen's. Bruce recommends that people find out for themselves. How often do Christian leaders recommend that people find out for themselves through their own experiences? Doing this is quite a different thing than saying verse [] says this, so don't believe differently. 

Recoverer,

Re: "To sum up, I figure Jesus was wiser than I, so I doubt that he had it in mind for people to worship him."

Maybe he was wise enough to know that many would worship him, for they have little abstract conceptual ability with which to grasp his fuller and higher message,  and so he had it in mind to meet them on their level and be the same as his message, so that the effect would be the same for them, whether they worship the message or the messenger. And so the message gets across, either in abstract or concrete form, or anywhere on the spectrum in between, as suits the degree of refinement of the recipient's mind and heart.

Thank you.

Josh Langley wrote on Aug 6^th, 2011 at 9:47pm:

Crossbow,
Why do you think you chose to live so many lives here, in so short a time? It seems that many spirits choose to spend long stretches in the non-physical realms before coming back here.  It looks like you set yourself a very arduous schedule.