Hi Matthew,

While I'm living here, being human, in this physical experience, I'm going to get all I can out of it.  Think about it.  For what we have to put up with while being here, why not take all you can?  I don't mean that selfishly.  We can still love and give, but I'm here in this lifetime to gain experiences, especially any experience that teaches me something about feelings and emotions and the range of my own consciousness.   I think our feelings and emotions are the only way to know our true self and that comes with experiences.  So why strive to give up our attachments and goals? 

What I've been recently finding out is that even if I don't get my desired outcome or goal, I've learned a lot along the journey because of the feelings and emotions I went through.  I used to believe that "meant to be" meant the outcome, but I don't believe that anymore.  I believe what's meant to be is something we realize when we've come to a certain realization inside of ourselves.  It's that special moment when you feel whole and connected to your reality, despite the outcome.  When you become your true higher self through your emotional growth and what it leaves in you is something that no one can take away, despite the outcome.  If you examine those types of moments, it's the feeling that's important.  Not that what you desire doesn't matter anymore, it does.  But when you can look at everything from this new perspective, you realize that what you learned along the way is much more important and real than what you thought was.  It's something that's always going to exist in you.  While outcomes change and end, feelings and emotional growth do not. 

So I don't strive to detach from things, people, or my desires and goals, but instead I am striving to learn to change my energy to a perspective that's one of a positive nature, and I will still strive for what I want in life, but if it doesn't end up the way I want it to, I still have my experience of who I am, what I gained through my experience, and nothing can take that away.  But to live without attachments and goals, what will you learn?  What will you experience of your own soul's growth?

Let's say I am one of those kind and loving yet lonely and unhappy peoeple.  (I am).  And I don't always get something back of which I give.  And I don't always get what I want, and I feel pretty sad about that sometimes.  But along the way I'm learning things I wasn't expecting, and it's making me grow into a better person, even though I had no idea that was part of the deal. 

I think we NEED to have dreams, goals, and desires for outcomes.  It gives us something to strive for, something to go on.  It's a road.  And just like when you plan a road trip, you know what you think to expect and you know what your goal is, but you cannot predict everything that will come along the way.  And usually, when you pay attention to the world around you, it's those things along the way which are the most amazing parts of our lives.  You tell the story, "I was on my way to California but what happened on day 2 out in the middle of nowhere was the most unexpected thing ever.  I am so glad I didn't miss it."  That's what life is all about!

We aren't supposed to know everything that's supposed to happen because we are supposed to be creating opportunities for ourselves, and it's in the goal-making process that we do that creating.  Our emotions and feelings that we put into the goal-making process is what brings opportunities for experience into our lives.  Our Guidance gets to work within the realm of what we are thinking, feeling, and doing and then communicate with us through those avenues and help set opportunities in our path.  It is up to us whether we take them.  It is up to us whether we allow ourselves to experience, learn, feel, grow. 

Maybe after I'm done doing all the soul growth I discover there is for me, I wouldn't have a need for more attachments to earthly outcomes.  But I don't want to have to live my life that way.  Yes, misery and loneliness don't feel good, but I have to believe that I'm always experiencing exactly what I need to be experiencing at the moment.  And when I decide I don't want to feel or be a certain way anymore, I have a right to change it, despite any outcome around me. You said we try to hold onto things that cannot be held, but the emotion of what we feel and learn from them can be.  We can always keep that within us.  There are so many things and people that I will always love, even after they are gone, and even if things don't turn out the way I want them to.  I don't think it is even possible to love without receiving, because it is the very nature of love to receive something.  It's automatic.  What you're loving is yourself.  You cannot truely give love unless you are able to have, know, and feel it.  And it's in the process of learning how to love one's self that we learn to give love and feel loved.  We need goals, challenges, and pain in order to push ourselves to strive for more, and I think that's the point of our lives.  It's the point of being here, being human, and having experiences.  We get to find out what it is we truely can discover about ourselves. 

Interesting points.  I agree with Vicky in that having goals, setting out to accomplish something, is not to be considered merely an attachment, but something to be nurtured.  But for many of us, it is the attachment to the outcome of our goals that then can set up a future misery.  Our intent can move mountains, but when it fails to do so, or when someone we love experiences a bad outcome, we also should put it into perspective - and that is what is so hard to do.

I find, for myself, that if I am mindful of love, that the recovery time for any given hardship is quicker.  It doesn't make it easy, by any means.  It just passes a bit more quickly.

I am conflicted as to the necessity of suffering to grow in love.  I don't believe in the nobility of suffering itself, rather, that our very nature as consciousness embedded in flesh, seeing itself as separate, mandates periods of suffering if we don't recognize and embrace our true spiritual existence. 

I do think that attachment to the physical world and ego related thought create much of the misery in our lives.  However, a being who is immersed in love can still feel compassion for those around him/her who experience hardship.  In that line of thought then, a loving spirit can not be truly happy while seeing another in pain.



M

First of all, it's hard to feel as if everything is okay with all of the problems this world includes.

Other wise, just as souls that are no longer incarnated into a body strive to reach higher levels of being, so do we even if we've experienced spiritual growth. I believe that the more we get in touch with the divine love, the more we want it.

Do you remember what Robert Monroe wrote in his first book? He said that he visited what he referred to as home three times. Afterwards he would feel depressed for a while. Some near death experiencers also experience depression after they return to this world. Until we find the perfection we seek (and inwardly know about), we'll probably never feel complete, even if our consciousness level is significantly more evolved than it used to be. In a way this is a good thing because it inspires us to try to grow some more. Perhaps we'll also be inspired to make this world a better place to live.

Try to feel how your consciousness feels now as compared to a few years ago. You might feel a difference. Such differences are hard to be aware of without making an attempt to be aware because changes can happen gradually just as weight can be gained gradually.

DocM wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 7:11am:


I was not attaching any particular label to suffering other than mentioning how it's the most catalytic teaching experience we have here (the next is the living, human exampling of those more intune than ourselves, and the next after is the nonphysical guidance we can listen to if we choose).

  In the NT, it's summed as, "For he, even though he was the Son, learned obedience (to Source and Source's way) through the things he suffered." 

  Suffering, or rather the experience of difficult outer circumstances has a way of eventually hammering and smelting out our imperfections and our willfulness.  Eventually we come to a point wherein we kneel and say, "not my will be done, but the Will of Source (and of the purely Creative Forces aligned/fully intune to and with same) be done."  (Do you know how truly rare such an attitude in this world is!???)

  Then when one really lives that teaching, along with PUL constantly, one experiences the degree of Source attunement that Yeshua did.   Look at his life Matthew.  It was no walk in the park, and yet he still overcame. 
Quote:


  While i do agree with Usetawaz's reply to this issue, i also think you're bringing up an important issue.  There is another kind of suffering that one can experience, even if one  has become like Yeshua and that's feeling the suffering of others. 

  One can know, mentally, that we choose much of the testing and challenge that comes to us and realize that most of it is for purpose of spiritual growth, but i still think we feel the suffering of others if we are truly merged into the Oneness. 

  That's why there is so much focus on Retrieval and acting as Guidance in the more expanded levels of Consciousness.  Because even though more completed and completed Beings realize the catalytic nature of suffering or difficult experiences to wake people up, they still are active in trying to help people awaken to the truths that will preclude the necessity of learning the hard way too much.

  But again, as i wrote earlier, even if one knows the importance of PUL and does a decent job of living and channeling same, one will still be tested to strengthen self.  When you eventually become PUL personafied, you transcend any personal, self suffering and are left with only the collective suffering we just talked about in the above.

   I really see it much akin to raw ore being forged in a white hot fire wherein the base impurities are burned out of us so as to leave only pure gold. 

  The intensity of this process will depend on how strong and mature one is already on a Soul level.  For those, like Yeshua, who truly seek with all of their being the truly "Ultimate Journey" (full re-merging with Source Consciousness), it can be quite a ride.

   

Very well said and put Betson and on both counts.  There's an old mystic based saying when talking about the process of people waking up to reality, and that they often experience what has been called "Divine discontent". 

It's an impetus to find and nurture, imo, that which is reality. 

That will be there, until one fully re-merges with PUL and the full Source being/state within. 

  I have my moments and sometimes periods of intense loneliness and deep divine discontent, but for the most part i've grown to become a rather consistently happy, calm, optimistic or having faith in life and the process even when difficulties arise, kind of person.  (certainly not always, but as a trend).

  I know this is due to working on growing spiritually and better consistent attunement to that which more closely resembles PUL.   At one point in my life, i experienced rather constant and very deep depression.  I was also a much more self centered and imbalanced person then.  (body imbalance via destructive diet, lack of exercise, etc also played a major role too). 

  One thing which has struck me as particularly interesting in non religious but psychically derived sources of info which mention Yeshua like the Cayce readings or Courtney Brown (or some NDE's) is how these all agree about the very joyful, even quite humorous at times nature of Yeshua. 

   Even Joe McMoneagle in his adapted Remote viewing session that Bob Monroe requested, found this out about him and noted it as a key feature of interaction with him. 

   It seems like he is a really happy, joyful, and at peace person and i suspect the only suffering he ever feels now, is for others who suffer.