Quote:


  This leads me to mention the unusual account contained within Bob Monroe's last book, Ultimate Journey. 

  I mentioned this on another thread here recently, and may as well copy it over. 

Quote:

I find it interesting that when Bob Monroe asked his I/There aka the guidance level part of himself, if he could meet the most mature person living in his time-space reference, he was led to a person who was some 1800 years or so "old" (but looked to be somewhere from the age of 30 to 50), occidental in origin, and apparently already known about in some way.

  The really interesting part is the "not recycled" like the rest of us part wherein this person was living one super long continuous in physical lifetime, and also btw doesn't need to sleep or eat at all "Oh, i gave those up years ago."  (also the perfectly balanced/merged between masculine and feminine is interesting too, hence the name label of "He/She").

  If Bob's account is more true than not, and my intuition and guidance tells me that it is, then I suspect if there is such a thing as "enlightenment", full self or God realization, etc...

...then such a person as "He/She" would truly be an example of that.

    Along with Bob's account, i also find it interesting that there are some references in Cayce's work and in Rosiland McKnight's work stating that dying happens from living in an illusionary manner and there are some hints that if a person dispensed with all illusion and purely lived that which is reality then a person would experience neither aging nor death.

  More so interesting is the info in the Cayce work that states that Yeshua while he let himself die temporarily (for 3 days), did recreate or resurrect a body of sorts, one that could interact with others and perceive in a physical like manner.

  Rosiland's guidance makes statements like that even before the crucifixion that Yeshua was so spiritually intune, he could fully phase into his "spiritual body", and thus was the reason of why he was known to have disappeared in crowds.  In other words, he had full control over all physical energies and reactions. 

   There are various references in various aura and energy field literature of the rare "White Light" emanations.   

Then there are various references to the power, purity, and/or importance of the White Light in various spiritually oriented books. 

  Even in a Bob Monroe book the White Light is mentioned in relation to the energy of Love. 

   All of this is interesting to me because once in a great while i will have a particularly deep, expanded, and Love attuned meditation wherein i experience and perceive the White Light.   To me, that White Light is pure Love and Creative energy or consciousness.  Perhaps attuning to this, even if temporarily, is a mini or temporary or incomplete "enLightenment" experience? 

   My only other experience with this whole "enLightenment" concept besides some of the guidance i get about it, is a dream that i shared recently.   In this dream, i think i experienced what it was like to be "enLightened" which is probably why i can't remember the feelings very well now nor explain it very well because i'm too far away from that state in my normal day to day conscious awareness.   But it was similar to my occasional spontaneous White Light experiences when conscious.  Similar feelings of expansiveness, love-gratitude, connectedness, total at peaceness, and being so alive. 

  I ask myself what would happen if i could retain that state of being, that attunement or awareness through day to day life and only express from that kind of space?

  Here is the dream i had,

"In the dream I was standing in a circle with other people or beings and we were all holding hands in a prayerful, meditative type way.  I somehow intuitively became aware that I should step into the center of the circle.

  I knew as i was stepping into the middle of the circle that i was supposed to become a channel of the Christ Spirit or of the Christ Consciousness within.  Actually somehow felt like both at the same time oddly, like it was both an inner and outer thing simultaneously.

  I felt this happen within the dream after stepping in the middle of the circle.  I can't really explain the feeling very well in words, but i felt like i was both me and yet not me at the same time.  I was still me, but a much more expanded, transcendent version of me.  I felt filled with power, life, and pure expanded awareness.  I felt such a connectedness, but i still had an awareness of an individualized sense of self.

 

First of all, when it comes to merging with God, what precisely does this mean? I’m not one hundred percent certain, but here’s a possibility:

At first there was one vast undifferentiated being. Call this being God if you like. Eventually God started to learn what his existence is about. Eventually he realized that he was all alone. Eventually he learned how to use his own being to create other beings. Since these other beings come from himself, they aren’t separate from him.

However, since they were given the right to figure things out for themselves rather than be downloaded with programs, they don’t have the same wisdom as God. Eventually they find it. They find that God isn’t a being who wants to be worshiped. They find that God understands that in order for love and oneness to be shared completely, equality is necessary. Could you share love with a friend if this friend expected you to bow to him? Would a being such as God want to be worshiped? It seems to me that really egotistical people want to be worshiped.  Sometimes such people claim to be enlightened and allow other people to treat them in a worshipful way. A person who truly understood about love and oneness wouldn’t want to be treated in such a way and wouldn’t allow others to do so. One way of insuring that such misguided worship doesn’t take place is to not place oneself on a pedestal so people end up treating you in a worshipful way. If you really know something, you don’t need to tell other people how enlightened you are.

I don’t mean to downplay my appreciation for God since he got the ball rolling. But my guess is that from his perspective, whether you’re the being who got the ball rolling and observes what takes place while providing assistance when needed, or one of God’s many projections, you’re always a part of source. Eventually you’ll seek the way that is most fulfilling not only for yourself, but for everybody else. I figure God is about perfect love and wisdom, not fear-based blind obedience.

The goal isn’t to become nothing. The goal is to become all that we can be with love as our basis. What’s better than love?

Regarding the HeShe person Justin wrote about, going by what I read, this person hasn’t presented himself in a way where people end up treating him in a worshipful way.

Regarding spiritually advance people being able to dematerialize themselves, I’ve read about a lot of supposed enlightened masters and none of them had (have) such an ability.  Instead, they do things such as die of cancer.

recoverer wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 2:16pm:


   Very well said, though i suspect that some of the nondualistic teachings and teachers do not necessarily consider it becoming "nothing", but rather just the Whole but without a sense of an individual self. 

  For some reason, it seems hard for humans to wrap their minds/perceptions around the simultaneous "both" explanation rather than the either or kind. 

Quote:


  Yeah, i really got the sense that this mysterious "He/She" person really seems incognito.  Perhaps this is because this Being knows that if it went public at the wrong time, too many humans would tend to become too attached to It rather than focusing on developing to the same state of consciousness. 

  Another religion or what not might develop around such a person.  Meanwhile it seems that He/She spends much time and energy affecting it's fellow humans more subtly via many different "jobs" and daily interactions. 

Perhaps "He/She" already went through this public thing at some earlier point.   

Justin, now that you mentioned Yogananda, your picture of an enlightened person resembles much of Yogananda's. Monroe's He/She corresponds to Babaji in Yogananda's book. (Babaji as well seems quite incognito to most people...)

It's the question if we should connect full enlightenment with full control of physical matter (or at least the physical body). Maybe there are fully enlightened people while they appear to most other people as totally ordinary, including mortality? Isn't it a sign for clinging to the physical world when we put up physical immortality as the ultimate proof of real enlightenment? When we know that we could wake up every moment in another world, and this life then is just a memory, then it's just we have worlds where one has a mortal body, and worlds where this is not the case.

Enlightenment for me, though, is something which is independent of the world/realm/plane one is existing in. It's the realization that one hasn't to go anywhere, because he/she is already there; there would be nothing better, there would be no desire to explore all the "higher realms", because this one would be conscious of it all, has seen them through, and doesn't need to go there. It would be the end of all personal striving.

Spooky

Regarding not having to go anywhere because one is already there,  I've found that our souls need to go through a learning process in order to learn about things such as love and humility. Our souls can become wiser.

Pure consciousness by itself is just pure consciousness.  Pure consciousness combined with a wisdom that knows what everything is about, is a dynamic presence that knows how to best use its existence. 

I believe it is a mistake to believe that source being knew what it needed to know if order for perfection to exist right from the start. Source being had to learn to use it's existence in the most fullfilling way possible.

Because my kundalini is awakened, I've experienced what the energetic/creative aspect of being is like before it is used in any particular way. It feels like nothing more than a lot of energy. Fortunately, one can learn to use this energy in very positive ways.

I know that some say that understanding about oneness leads to love, but I don't believe it is as simple as that. I believe there are telepathic aliens that don't know the first thing about love. They exist as one mind, but they don't share love.

Love is something you need to find out about and develop. It is a way of being that can be fully manifested only after you choose it.

Regarding the aliens I spoke of, a couple of months ago some aliens tried to communicate with me (I was awake at the time, but saw them in a non-physical way). They didn't look like any of the aliens people speak of. I could sense that they are quite intelligent. I could also feel that they lacked empathy. They didn't feel evil like a movie-like demon, but they felt as if they have a self-serving agenda that doesn't care about the needs of others. I don't remember precisely what I said, but I basically told them I don't like how they feel and I don't want to do business them. I don't know how connected they are with each other, but I figure that if they can telepathically communicate with me, they can do so with each other.

Justin, I think I see; you're thinking about unmistakenable (if this word exists) signs for enlightenment, or, worded differently, who it is one can trust as a spiritual teacher. Of course, the student has to have quite some sensitivity to discern the real ones from the show guys, but this is a problem which is as old as spirituality.

Now, my turn was to tease you a bit about the question how "material" these signs have to be. The thought I've had for some years is, although it would be great to have free access to other worlds as some talented OBE'rs seem to have, but isn't it in the end the same thing as our physical existence we have right now? It might be that everything is so much clearer, more vivid, our perception might expand to an unbelievable level, our joy increases to unthinkable heights, our understanding appears to be unlimited; but yet, aren't we then, basically, at the same level as we are in a common physical human existance? We would still ask: "What shall I do? What is right? What is it all about? Where shall I go next? Where can I turn to when I don't know what to do?" This would be all on a higher level, but the pattern would be the same. And that's the thing which keeps bothering me. Exactly this problem I found adressed in the writings of Parsons and Sylvester (I'm not certain if I shall believe what they tell, they're "smart guys"), later I found Wartella (whom I found absolutely credible in his descriptions of his "state"), and some time ago I found Blofeld's translation of the so-called Huang Po, a Chinese Zen (Ch'an) Buddhist; it is an extreme, but quite clear statement of monism (a must-read for everyone interested in Zen), while this monism, or this teaching, is clothed in statements such as "not..., but not not...", or, neither existing, nor not existing and such. The similarities to Wartella are, in my view, obvious, as well as with other sources. Now, one thing that Huang Po says is, there are no steps of enlightenment; you either are, or you are not. This fits very well with what he says about enlightenment in other passages, and with other sources as well, as it seems indeed like the traditional picture "to cross the river", there seems to be a complete turnaround, a total different view which can't be trained like in intellectual disciplines, it's just the moment in which the penny drops, and everything is different, yet still the same. I can't be sure, but I don't think Wartella wrote his essays because he was impressed by Huang-Po and wanted to become a writer. In my view, there indeed is something, something sudden, which is worthy to be called "enlightenment" (even when Huang-Po says there is no light, and no darkness, and it can't perceived alltogether ). And this, following the trace I'm on right now, hasn't anything to do with such things as thinking about glands, but with a fundamental change of perspective which is unfortunately (but naturally) not really describable in words.

Yes, I'd say I had personal experiences with Jesus. I can't state though that it is the historical Jesus. I've grown up in a Christian surrounding, therefore my perception is influenced by this. What I can tell is, I saw "him" in a dream I had twice or thrice in my youth in the center of time (if this makes sense), beckoning me to follow him. The other time, I saw him as an entity always available to lift you up if you ask.
   When you said "he" is THE source, I have the feeling my thinking about Zen is part of his beckoning me in that dream. He's there, but he doesn't pull you out, but provides you the path you can go- if you want to. That's my experience so far.
--------------------------------------------------------

Recoverer: The relationship of ego-lessness and/or oneness on the one, and love on the other hand is indeed interesting; if the "realization" would automatically set free the power of love. As you have developed Kundalini force, haven't you noticed that it is quite similar to PUL? Or, maybe even the same? Like there are two aspects of the same thing, the Kundalini a rough, unspecific energy (which widens your eyes ) and PUL the aspect which contains objects, in the moment you turn "to the world", like this Kundalini energy is channeled through you, and you channel it further through any other being. Well, I can imagine folks with pure energy, without the PUL aspect, but they would remain unintelligent, like if you had this force, and you won't have the PUL aspect, it would mean there is an eminent lack of object recognition, it would be like on a robot-level, like blind natural forces, as tornados, earthquakes, tsunamis etc. Just unintelligent.


Thanks, Justin and Recoverer. I've learnt from you.

Spooky