These are terms that are being bandied about here lately. Also there has been some question if there is any more objective way to grade the attunement of an outside source or teacher.  Some might question the helpfulness of starting a thread about such a seemingly abstract or theoretical topic that one can't prove one way or another. 

Yet, seeing as it's Easter in my neck of the woods, i can't help but feel this is an apropos time to discuss such a topic. 

  Also, i've been fascinated with this topic for a long time, but my first forays into this topic was via Eastern beliefs which left me feeling like there was more to it than what they were saying, describing, and ultimately i think just theorizing themselves about.

  So how can one know anything about without having experienced it oneself?  Good question, probably you cannot fully know about it without the experience...
...but ah i remembered something, weren't we all at one point fully at-one in our conscious awareness with The Source, The Creator?  Somewhere within us, don't we remember the Oneness experience?

  So, in a sense, haven't we all already have had this experience?   Maybe it's about half remembering and half co-creating this reality again?

   So what is "enLightenment"?   I take it quite literally, which is why i capitalize the L in there.  Say the very foundation of creation and the Creator is something akin to what we call "Light", but say that physical light is only a temporal, finite reflection of infinite, eternal nonphysical Light...

  and say one of the better ways to describe this spiritual, creational light is to perhaps label it PUL or PUUL as i prefer (throwing in a "Universal")... but say that the physical is like free, infinite Light locked into itself or like it is the negative of the photograph, or a distorted reflection or mirror image of Reality..

Say the only difference between the nonphysical and eternal and the physical and temporal is the for lack of a better term, the rate of vibration involved...

  Say E=MCsquared means that matter or physicality is just condensed or super slow vibrating Light...

  Then what happens when we take our physical body, which is a densified, finite reflection "image" of our consciousness, and via our nonphysical consciousness we pump that body constantly with the energy or consciousness of PUUL aka spiritual, creational Light? 

  What would be some of the "effects" of really sustaining that process?   

  If Like begets and attracts Like, then Life, Light, and Love being all similar concepts for basically the same energy and consciousness, the very Creative Force that moves through All...  then wouldn't that attunement to and channeling of that purely Creative Force have some kind of physical effects on our physical body?

   Perhaps we would become so full of life that what we know as physical death, or of aging, would be just an illusion that we pass by?   

  Maybe we could so raise the vibratory patterns of the physical body that we could translate these slow and stuck vibratory patterns into pure, unfettered, infinite Light?   

Would we "disappear" to the perceptions of most other inphysical humans?  Maybe temporarily, but we could will ourselves back into a state perceivable by other humans because at that point, we would be able to have full conscious awareness and control of all of our energies, and since we are connected to others who are phased in physical, even though we are not of the physical anymore ourselves, we can exist within same through our connections with others who are still of the physical. 

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The inference in the above is that we age and die because we are not living reality as is, we are not being and living our true, original, core natures which is that spiritual Light and PUUL.

  Death and aging are effects of not keeping the kind of attunement that someone like He/She keeps. 

  So how can we tell if a particular teacher is actually enLightened or not?  There have been many who have claimed full self realization or enLightenment. 

  Every act of such a person would be a loving-positive, responsible, ethical one wherein they would consider the effects of their acts on indivdiuals and on the Whole and care more about that then what happens to themselves.  This doesn't mean that their individuality disappears completely, but that their needs are now the needs of the Whole, rather than some separated self.

  Going back to the above and relating to Monroe's experience of He/She and the hints here and there in Cayce's and Rosiland's work with guidance, then one way of knowing whether or not a particular teacher is the real deal in complete enLightenment is whether or not the person died and stayed dead, or is aging appreciably. 

     This really narrows the candidates down quite a bit!       

  But there are some other ways which i will address later.

Going back to the White Light radiation or emanation concept, based on my experiences of attuning to the highest, most Source attuned levels of guidance which exist within pure, unconditional, universal love, then i suspect that the various rumors and hints of White Light in relation to auras of fully Source attuned Beings is definitely correct (though for some reason sometimes the pure White Light phases to a more Golden hue).

  So another way to tell if a person or teacher is fully enlightened is to perceive their aura and if it is more or less constantly emanating only pure White Light or at times tinged with the Golden, then chances are that person is completely enLightened or pretty darn close to. 

  Ok, say you believe you can't perceive the aura because you don't physically "see" the colors.  I've found that you don't have to necessarily see the colors in a physical way to perceive it, you can sense the predominant colors and emanations or "see it in your minds eye". 

Important Side Note:( it's actually easy in my experience to physically see/perceive the soft glow of fuzzy off white that emanates right next to the body.  This is not the ultra rare pure, radiant White Light of the aura that i am talking about, but a perception of the "etheric body", and from my experience everyone emanates this soft, fuzzy off white energy field as part of the etheric field or body.)

    If that doesn't work, just take some deep relaxing breaths, use any energy gathering techniques that work for you, and state your intention to hook up to the most expanded Guidance levels and ask guidance whether or not the teacher in question is emanating such vibratory patterns.  Framing a question for a simple yes or no answer is plenty effective for this purpose.

  Does any of this "enLightenment" stuff really matter?   Well, to me that is both a yes and no depending.  I started this thread partially with the purpose of dispelling some of the enlightenment myths out there, that this is just some kind of "No I-ness" experience.  Rather it's an "Expanded self, wherein the I becomes fully aware of it's Oneness with all other I's, and there is simultaneously experienced both a One connected self and Many individual, unqiue selves.  Also that it becomes very much a "physical" process too, that the physical body literally changes to become infused with pure, super fast vibratory Light or rather translates to that.

  To further explain the benefit of understanding this enlightenment process and reality; as humans we tend to believe that we are so limited, and so much of our limitations relate to false or limited beliefs, and also to too much attunement to fear or a lack of attunement to PUUL rather. 

If we truly understood, from a knowing position, of how truly limitless and powerful we are, how much our true nature is PUUL, and that we as a human can become PUUL to such an extent that we transcend all seeming earthly limitations... 

  That to me is a very worthwhile understanding and position of knowing.  It's what comes after knowing that physical death or transition is no big deal because of the reality of the nonphysical.   But this takes it steps further into that the so called necessity of death or transition is actually completely an illusion too. 

   I believe the whole entire life and message, particularly in the crucifixion-death, and then ressurrection of Yeshua was a dramatic life story designed and planned to wake us up to this highest truth of ourselves.  That a fellow human could achieve this and said we could too if we but tried, is as inspiring as anything can get. 

That we are Gods in training, and if we live that which is reality, then we become fully consciously One with our Source/Creator and fully conscious of the Oneness of all consciousness.

  This is why i earlier wrote that it was apropos to start such a thread on Easter Sunday.  Here was a truly, and fully enLightened person who gave us a powerful, multi layered example of what it really means to be "enLightented". 

  Basically it means to be only full of Love or full of Light.  It seems like a tall or possibly impossible order in this physical world, but at least one person demonstrated that it's possible to the nth degree, so much so that a human could overcome the bonds of physical death. 

  Dedicated with deepest appreciation to all the "He/She's" of this and other worlds.  Especially to the Planning Intelligence/Co Creator of this Universe who is well known by another name.

Justin Said: "What would be some of the "effects" of really sustaining that process?   

  If Like begets and attracts Like, then Life, Light, and Love being all similar concepts for basically the same energy and consciousness, the very Creative Force that moves through All...  then wouldn't that attunement to and channeling of that purely Creative Force have some kind of physical effects on our physical body?

   Perhaps we would become so full of life that what we know as physical death, or of aging, would be just an illusion that we pass by?   

  Maybe we could so raise the vibratory patterns of the physical body that we could translate these slow and stuck vibratory patterns into pure, unfettered, infinite Light?   

Would we "disappear" to the perceptions of most other inphysical humans?  Maybe temporarily, but we could will ourselves back into a state perceivable by other humans because at that point, we would be able to have full conscious awareness and control of all of our energies, and since we are connected to others who are phased in physical, even though we are not of the physical anymore ourselves, we can exist within same through our connections with others who are still of the physical."
If this were strictly true, then wouldn't we see truly enlightened people living longer than others? And wouldn't this "effect" be in proportion to our level of enlightenment? I don't think history supports that relationship, necessarily.  Although I see your point(s).

Bardo wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 6:00pm:


  I don't believe it is an absolute process rather much more relative, until one gets to the completion point of a He/She type. 

  There are plenty of more mature people out there who die from various reasons and at various ages etc. based on various factors like karma, life purpose, affecting the path of others, etc. 

   But are these more and unusually mature people completely "enLightened" is a good question to ask?

  Have you read Monroe's account of He/She?  As i noted slightly earlier, it really seems that this person is very "underground" and incognito, rather than proclaiming self enlightened and publicly teaching in a formal capacity. 

   I suspect that the few other fully enlightened people out there do similar, and one reason may be that they don't want yet another religion or cult springing up around them.   There's been too much of that already.  Collectively speaking, we are not mature enough to handle the full on presence of such an attuned person. 

But my feeling is that the time is coming sooner than later, when we will be ready.   But unlike with Yeshua and his life, it will not be just one person showing up, but rather several around the same periods and cycle to show how Universal this process is.  It will definitely be interesting. 

  Re: some of the sentiments that you wrote;  When i was much younger, i was *very* open minded and when i read books like "Autobiography of a Yogi", i tended to just believe almost of these without questioning or discriminating too much. 

This was before i developed stronger conscious connections to guidance and generally opened up my intuitive sense. 

  I accepted on face value the words of people like Yogananda who claimed either directly or indirectly that they were fully enLightened.  I was generally pretty trusting of my fellow humans and more naive. 

  Things changed especially as i strengthened more direct connections to guidance and intuition, and i was led to question some of the claims of many of these so called enlightened people or the claims of others calling this or that person enlightened. 

  I found out that quite a number of these exhibited rather limiting tendencies and a lack of full attunment to PUUL consciousness at times. 

  One thing i am certain of is that a truly and fully "enLightened" person cannot and will not partake in any selfish act for self gain at the expense of others.  I'm not saying they can't be emotional human beings and express even briefly something like anger or what not, but they will not for example tell their female devotees who are already married that "we knew each other in past lives" and then attempt to have extramarital sex with them. 

This btw is taken from a real example of such an "enlightened" persons life.   Or, another example of the same person's life, this person claimed their fatness came from the fact that they indrew so much pranic energy.   Really, are you sure it wasn't because you ate too much and exercised to little like many other overweight people?   If you really think about the metaphysics of it, being such a pure channel of pranic energy would tend to speed up the metabolism and keep a person skinnier if they ate relatively moderately and healthily and were moderately physically active.  Sometimes when i meditate, my metabolism speeds up for a period and i experience the sensation of "heat".

  Lot's of self delusion and self dishonesty out there in the so called spiritual world, especially when people get into positions of authority, influence and people looking to them as a source of wisdom or transcendence. 

  I still keep an open mind and heart, but i've become a heck lot more discriminating lately and i often take a conscious, quiet moment or two to consult at least my intuitive knowing part. 

   

  Hi Spooky,

  I am no expert by any means in this area.  All i can do is go by is a combo of some brief experiences, my intuition, what i've received from guidance, and looking at a synthesis of a few different, unrelated sources i respect more than not says in their similarities. 

    For example, a couple of times Cayce's guidance mentioned something like, "Keep your Pineal gland active and you won't grow old." 

  Yet, oddly, his source did not connect the Pineal gland to be spiritually the highest (fastest vibratory, most expanded, whatever u want to call it) gland/center in the body, but gave that credit to the Pituitary gland.  The Pituitary gland this source consistently linked to full God realization/activation.

  So, inferred is that even if one slows down or stops aging, one isn't necessarily fully or completely enLightened (but definitely a lot closer than most). 

   For me, these are just some average outer "indications" of automatic body reactions that take place when certain glands etc. are truly activated. 

Like aura emanations/radiations, these do not "lie" and cannot be "twisted" as words and behaviors of humans can be and often are either by self delusion or by deliberately trying to deceive for self gain.

Now, a truly and fully enLIghtened person could disguise some things about themselves if they really wanted to.  Maybe they could give the impression that they are aging, sick, what not.

  But in any case, these outer indications are not the only or even primary way i would try to gauge whether or not someone was fully "enLIghtened" or not. 

  If i met them in person, i would more so go by the radiation/emanation of PUUL of such a person, as well as how they act, behave and treat their fellow humans. 

  That's the true measure.  Many people who have claimed enlightenment for themselves or their followers claimed about them, didn't live up to that pure, consistent expression of PUUL in relation to others. 

   Some showed some downright selfish and materialistic tendencies at times. 

  If it doesn't look like, or quack like a duck, it probably isn't really a duck, or maybe it's only part duck.   

   I suspect my particular holistic views on enlightenment clash with some of your views and preconceptions from what i've read of some of your outer recommendations, etc.

  I guess ultimately we will have to wait and see what it's truly about until we fully get their ourselves. 

  But what doesn't make sense to me about you, is that i sense that you've been given some messages here and there relating to Christ/Yeshua and yet for some reason it seems like you have pushed these aside for lesser sources and voices.  He is the one rare source that i know of, that cannot lead you astray.

In any case, i wonder what "He/She" would say on this subject?  Maybe we could do a group PE on this subject and communicating to He/She or an equivalent helper or guidance on the subject?

Regarding what I said about those aliens, I'm not one hundred percent about the nature of their agenda, but because they don't understand about love, it is hard to see how they can be motivated in the best way possible.

Spooky:

I used to be a big fan of Huang Po. I read Blofeld's book quite a bit. I can't say the instantaneous enlightenment thing worked for me, eventhough I've had instaneous insights. I believe such insights can provide us with a perspective that can help us grow, but they won't cause all of our unwanted tendencies to go away just like that. It's interesting that we can have deep insights, and then our tendencies still come back. I've found that the more I've let them go, the more I can tune into and live according to PUL.

Regarding what state we eventually obtain, some sources say it's hard for us humans to imagine how extraordinary it gets. Yet, the state we obtain is probably free of many of the frivolous ways in which humans try to obtain fullfillment.

What if we abided in a realm where everyone loved each other completely without all of the hang ups? What if we could enjoy what the creative aspect of being has to offer while at the same time feeling inwardly complete, and therefore not needy? I like to see beautiful things, yet I've noticed that when I feel inwardly complete I don't need to see anything.

Regarding your dreams with Jesus, going by what you shared with me, it seems to me that you experienced more than your imagination. However, I certainly don't mean something fundamentalist in nature.

spooky2 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2011 at 9:38pm:


  I believe i understand what you are saying and where you are coming from with your views of enLightenment.  I just have developed a more holistic perspective which includes the physical in with the view.

To address some of what you said in the above quote.  Say theoretically, that the physical and nonphysical are not really 'separate' realities, but rather just different perspectives and ways of perceiving the Total Field that is Consciousness. 

Say that that is true for every "level" or dimension within same, just different perspective sets when from the view or perspective of a consciousness not fully attuned to PUUL.
   
   Then looking at physicality again.  If there is a difference between physical and nonphysical, it's only in what could be described as density or rate of vibration, or in other words, the physical is a reference and perspective point or level of a less expanded and more narrow view of reality/degree of perception of connectedness/Oneness.

   We could make some holistic assumptions about the interconnecting nature of physicality with the more and completely "nonphysical" levels/dimensions/perspectives.

  One is that physical, reflects what our nonphysical (consciousness) "mind" builds up both in an individual and collective sense.  It's like the physical is a reflected image of nonphysical consciousness, and so we could say that the physical is like a symbolic representation and/or experience in contrast to what is purely consciousness in essence.   

   This relates to that whole "glandular" process that i had brought up earlier.  Say for example, that in connection with the total human consciousness system, there are seven main "perspectives" or dimensions of perceiving, existing, etc.

   Some have linked these to the 7 main, major "Chakras".  This is just a conceptual framework for understanding the difference, but interrelatedness between these different dimensions or perspectives or ways of perceiving and existing.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that our physical bodies have 7 main endocrine glands in same (or that in science, there are considered 6 main colors and then the 7th expression of White LIght which is a balanced combination of the 6).  And not surprising to me, Cayce's guidance linked this endocrine gland system to those different perspectives, dimensions, and ways of perceiving, experiencing, and BEING different realities.

In a sense, it's ALL contained within this physical perspective as well and the physical is partially a pattern or reflection of what we have built up in our collective and individual consciousness.  It's like our physical body is a symbolic reflection of a combo of individual and to a lesser extent, collective "karmic" patterns. 

  So, according to Cayce, as we grow spiritually within, in our consciousness, we start to activate in a different than purely physical process way, the different glands in our bodies.   This process corresponds to our shifting/phasing our perception and perspective.

Generally speaking, his guidance outlined that this seems to have a linear and progressive like process (when viewed from the physical body sense).  In other words, as you spiritually grow and attune more and more purely to that which is PUUL, each gland "above" the other becomes purified, activated, and balanced in relation to the "below" glands in the body (relatively speaking, with the exception of the Pineal and the Pituitary). 

   When our "Kundalini" reaches the Pineal gland, and fully spills over into the "cup" that is the Pituitary, and fully activates that in both a "Spiritual"/consciousness sense AND in a physical sense, this correlates with pure Source awareness/attunement. 

  Again, when one's consciousness is connected to a body, there is not a separation of this process within this framework of this perception or perspective.  We can "take" or "translate" the body with us so to speak, because it's really not a set thing.  Really what we are doing is overcoming the illusion of a physical body, and still yet being connected to this particular dimension or perspective (because others are still within same).

  As mentioned, Cayce's guidance outlined that certain automatic, Universal/Archetypal body reactions take place as we complete this process. 

  If we fully activate the Pineal gland in both a consciousness and physical sense, our nonphysical perception fully expands to include all dimensions "below", rather slower vibrating than the pure Spirit or creational Source level.

  They also mention that physical aging also greatly slows down or completely stops at this point in the process. 

  But the Pituitary is the "next step" so to speak, and this represents spiritually the "Resurrection" process if we take a "Christian" perspective. 

According to Cayce's guidance, the book of "Revelations" is all about this inner consciousness process relating to the physical body in a symbolic way, using symbolic language to describe the various points or levels of consciousness accessed and maintained when one is connected to a body and that level of perception/conceptual framework.

  Essentially, Cayce's guidance said that John of Patmos was going through the "enLightenment" process himself, and trying to describe what took place in the body as these different glands and dimensions were both accessed and brought into MERGER with one another. 

  Because like "White Light" is a perfect, balanced expression or state of all colors perfectly balanced, combined, and merged, so to is "enLightenment" like one merging all "different but interconnected" dimensions within One dimension, which then by nature becomes "dimensionless" because it's All inclusive, All permeating, etc.

  My question to you, why do you think the physical isn't involved with this process in a physical way, as if there is some kind of separation here?

  Maybe the outer sources you are listening to on this matter, aren't fully and correctly aware of this process--particularly the completion of same, as they promote about themselves?  It would seem to me that completion of this process while in physical, takes quite a lot of depth and consistent attunement to PUUL consciousness, and from experience this isn't always easy to attune to and live in a physical world.

  I have not yet met, in this physical life, a person whom my intuitive sense has told me, completed this process to the degree that someone like Yeshua or "He/She" of Monroe's work has done. 

  One can realize, or become aware of certain expanded ideas and perceptions, without fully living and grounding these into physical reality in the sense of interaction with one's fellow sentient Beings. 

  It's when a habit of PUUL becomes so strong and consistent, that this process eventually finds completion.  Now the realization of the importance and reality of PUUL may happen in an intuitive instant, but the rest, the process of grouding that into physical reality seems to be a progressive process while connected to physical energies. 

  Not that someone just rolls out of bed oneday with the perspective of, "yeah man, i'm totally enLightened" now.   Yet, this is what so many have claimed about themselves.  Many of these people seem to have not been particularly attuned to PUUL in a holistic, pure, and consistent way before hand.  Some report a lot of personal problems and imbalances. 

  Maybe it's a more a matter of trying to "escape" from these personal, inner problems and imbalances rather than being actually fully "enLIghtened".

  Because, here is a revelation!  Most of us on this site, really believe and know the importance and reality of PUUL and the necessity of attuning to same.

   In a sense, we all have had this "enlightenment" realization on a mental level.  Now, we are all in different stages or progress of grounding that "realization" into our daily physical lives and interactions with other sentinent Beings (and i very much include animals in with this). 

  Guidance has told, both because i've asked, and have been curious about this question for a while, that the man known as Yeshua, is the only historical or publicly, or known by others, teacher who has fully completed this process while connected to a physical body.  (I've heard some others have to, but they weren't known publicly as spiritual teachers and didn't proclaim themselves enlightened etc).

  I was told that the Buddha came to complete "White LIght" Oneness perspective, AFTER he died, and also still had to retrieve various aspects of his Disk. 

With Yeshua, he had completed all Retrievals of his Disk, and realized that Oneness, pure PUUL perspective while still physically alive, and let people kill his body in order to dramatically "prove" what full "enLIghtenment" is all about, both being PUUL personified in ones life AND having complete transcendence over physical energies while still connected to same. 

  I would suggest to any people curious about what i've received from guidance about this issue, not to "believe" me, but to consider it and take it to their guidance under the ideal circumstances. 

  In other words, don't look for any ole regular "Helper", but specifically ask to attune to the most Source and PUUL attuned Consciousnesses there are, and ask about the above, while feeling PUUL like love and gratitude.  This is the only way, imo, to really clearly receive and perceive the truth of such matters, unless one is consciously, fully attuned to PUUL already in their everyday waking life. 

  If one uses the Monroe affirmation, one can be directed to Helpers just as ignorant or aware as self.  What would be the point of that, how will they help you out of the bag so to speak?