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Hi All: Why is this relevant if whatever took place was between consenting adults? Is there some kind of homophopic issue going on here. The child abuse thing is of concern and children under the age of say 12 - 15 or you could go as high as 18... should not be subjected to sexual acts of any kind... but, of course, they should be told the facts of life about the stork and bird and bees...

Recoverer seems to be equating spiritual evolution, non-physical powers with moral behavior... and it HIS personal moral code he wants to impose on the world... ( I suggest that Recoverer was an Inquisitor in some mediaval life time and has not given it up... he considers himself the spiritual policeman of the world and he is doomed to failure on that count)...

The truth is there is no relationship between spirituality and non-physical powers and morality... one of the most powerful hermetic magicians of the the late 20th centuries was Aleister Crowley and he was by all accounts the most evil of men. He was amazingly competent and capable and turned his powers to what most of us would consider evil works... tho there is some dispute about whether he was ALL bad.

There is more to 'sex' than anyone on this board seems to be conversant with and that is a shame... but the world at large is ignorant of 'sex' and at best they only kind of know what to put where because the world population continues to grow... but... I tell you there are.... ' more things in heaven and earth concerning 'sex' that is ever dreamt of in your philosophy Horation...(opps I mean recoverer)'

S.

Seraphis1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2011 at 4:18pm:


Hehe, I was just pointing out the obvious.

To another side, the sad part of this story is that the Indian justice system doesn't work. My hope is that all Sai Baba followers that have been tricked, manage to open their eyes.

Problem is, as Robert Bruce mentioned, many followers may feel guilt and embarrassment for having been duped and after several years in the ashram may have problems realizing what's the reality.

And as Robert Bruce wrote, his vision only lasted 30 seconds, so the guy with that big, dark hair could very well be any other black person - discarnate, incarnate or just a pure thought-form of his.

Still today, that 30 seconds vision remains an enigma to Robert Bruce.

Hi All: What is getting lost in all this concern about morality, validity of guru’s, et al is the fact that as evolving spiritual beings…

It boils down to the story of Satan taking Jesus to a mountain top and showing him the power and wealth he could bestow on Jesus if he worshiped him.

As you evolve spiritually you will arrive at a place where you will be tested… with spiritual evolution comes ‘power’, clairvoyance, bilocation, ability to control the minds of lesser individuals… at every evolutionary advance you will have to chose between the Divine and Mammon.

Which will YOU choose…??? What you think at this moment may not be what you actually choose when you are confronted with ‘unlimited power’.

Beware!!

S.

I can't judge Crowley but his Toth Tarot deck is outstanding and so was how he viewed the Tarot. I learned a lot from his work and I don't regret the experience. My morality has to do with the Golden Rule. If you abide by it you don't need laws...and making laws breaks the Golden Rule, but sadly in order to have order we subject ourselves to laws that hinder Rule abiding experience that could actually facilitate growth because if you have one law you must have a million. If you can't live by the Golden Rule (do no harm, Love thy Neighbor as thyself, Do unto others as you would have done unto you, do infringe on another's free will, etc) You are experiencing your reason for being here in the first place. If you can live by it then you're just practicing a bit more each day.

  It seems the thread has taken a rather different direction.  I'm not going to comment anymore on the RB issue on this thread, as i said earlier. 

But in Lucy's ramblings, she asked an interesting, broad question. 

Lucy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2011 at 11:17am:


  The simple answer, which comes from the fundamental core issue, is that there is so much separation of humanity from Source in OUR collective consciousness. 

  The greater the degree of separation from same, the greater and more varied the perversity that will be found.  Source is pure and purely Loving, but it allows such different expressions than Itself to arise for it gave the gift of choice, which was necessary to create true companions and co-creators.

  Flesh and Spirit, are like oil and water, they don't mix particularly well.  Only through attunement to PUL can and will they begin to harmonize and balance. 

Until then, that Source separation consciousness that is so prevalent of humanity, allows the power and influence of the flesh to largely control us in so many ways.  The more we hearken to that influence, the darker, more fractured, selfish, materialistic, less spiritually clear perceiving, and more imbalanced we become.

  As above (within), so below (without), and like attracts and begets like also applies.  When we choose such slower vibratory paths, we then open ourselves up to outer voices best not listened too.  Voices more separated than most of us.   

  If we ignore and sweep the shadow side under the rug both collectively and individually, then that's what one of the things which limits us and keeps us from full attunement and balance. 

  Yes, it's important to focus on the constructive and creative, the beauty, within others, within life, within self, but that doesn't mean to don the rose colored glasses all the time.  It's the intention that matters as in all things. 

  Some focus on beauty, not for beauty's sake, but because they fear or find that which is non beautiful is unpleasant to directly face.  It's more about avoidance.

  Some are aware of, and speak about the shadow not because that is what is most important to them, but because they know it is a barrier to greater Source attunement, and they love Source. 

    I'm beginning to realize that perhaps PUL and what attunement to same means isn't fully understood. 

The more one attunes to PUL, the more purely moral, ethically, the more responsibly, the more kindly, the more honestly one will live.   The more integrity and sincerity one will have within and live.

   One does no one, nor the world a favor, when one advocates for, recommends spiritual sources or "experts" that are far off from attunement and expressing of that.   It only helps to keep the world stuck.  Course, in most cases, we don't know better which is why we do it.  Like i said before, we need methods to help us to get beyond ourselves and to really sincerely practice them. 

    The more consistent attunement to PUL, the more remembrance and growth towards Source Consciousness, the more developed the spiritual discrimination.  The more one can see clearly the degree or lack thereof, the attunement of the outer to Source.

  Everything, everything in this life and journey is about re-awakening back to that full Source at-one-ment.

    I had a verification of a different kind and different source. 

  Long time "explorer" with Bob Monroe, Rosiland A. McKnight, wrote a book called Cosmic Journeys based on her experiences with Bob during their sessions on nonphysical exploration, guidance, etc. 

   Rosiland McKnight worked with various guidance energies during these sessions, but it seems that often a particular "Guide" seemed to be involved as a leader sort, and Bob both humorously and fondly gave him the name of "Ah So" for a couple of reasons.   The information that came from this Guide always seemed so expanded and enlightening to both Bob and Rosie, and because when he sometimes spoke directly through Rosie's body, her voice would have a slight Asian accent.  The Being refused to give any earth based name, and Bob at the time was apparently attached to needing a name or label of some sort..

  Anyways, this guide outlined quite a lot behind nonphysical exploration, and talked at length about OBE's from various perspectives, as well as dreams, and the interrelation between various energy levels and the kinds of experiences linked with same. 

   Quite frankly, with knowing what i now know about all this phenom. as outlined by "Ah So", and has verified by some combo of experience and self guidance, i wouldn't listen to any teacher who primarily has experiences via the classic OBE phenom. 

  Ah So, outlined that we have 5 main "bodies" or levels of experience and perception within the total human energy system (which i find includes the total Solar System).  These main levels could be called the physical body, the etheric body, the emotional body, the mental body, and the spiritual body. 

    These levels though have sub levels within them.  Kind of like different graduations, one flowing from one into the other.   Each body and level, from the physical towards the spiritual, is faster vibratory than the last. 

  He mentioned that beings like Jesus Christ, could do what they could do (disappear amongst crowds, etc), because they phased fully into their spiritual body and lived from that or rather merged the physical and spiritual bodies together.  The spiritual body or level being the fastest vibratory, it is the all inclusive consciousness and can control or redirect any reaction or what not in any of the slower vibratory bodies or levels. 

  Ah So seems to be of the opinion that the classic OBE is about phasing primarily into the "etheric body" or level from the physical and that this is a limited means and usually accompanied with it is fear, attachment to sexual energies, and various other baggage issues  (hmm ring a bell of RAM's early days at all??).   

  Or in other words or by inference, it's a slower vibratory process that comes about by lack of greater attunement to PUL. 

  This was quite proved to me personally.   About 4 or so years ago, I had my 1st classic OBE quite spontaneously.   I had that very distinct experience of being "separated" from my body, in another seeming "body".   

    Around this time and during this time, I was not my usual self.  In hindsight i saw i was more egostical, self centered, imbalanced, caught up in sexual energy (i was unusually horny during this period and too attached to sexual stuff), etc.

   Interestingly from an astrological perspective, at the time I had both the Planets Saturn and Mars going through my 1st House at the same time, and Pluto closely square the ruler of my Sun Sign.  If you know astrology, you will know that Saturn, Mars, and Pluto all represent the slower vibratory aspects of human consciousness.  By those above positions at that time in my life, it shows they were all quite prominent, which only is an outer reflection in a symbolic language of what was going on internally at the time. 

   In other words, it was an unusually slow vibratory period for me and i'm not surprised, especially in light of Rosie's Guide's teachings that my only classic OBE took place then! 

   So, if Ah So teachings are to be believed, then personally I wouldn't follow any teacher whose primary interest and exploration of the nonphysical lies via the classic OBE that happens from primarily phasing the physical to the etheric level.  Such a person is by inference is spiritually limited until they attune much more to PUL.

  It's only an "octave" above the physical, and carries so much of that distortion with it because it's so "close" in vibratory wavelength.

   
  There is such a consistent, internal holistic logic to AhSo's teachings and system, that it's bit of a shame that more don't deeply consider this work.   After all, it's rumored that Bob developed aspects of the Gateway Voyage program partially on some of what came through Rosie's sessions. 

  For example, the REBALL comes from AhSo and Rosies guidance and sessions. 

 

Seraphis1,
"Hi Lucy: Recoverer is a particularly vicious offender in this regard."

Haven't examined the bruce story and could care less if you were willing to walk a mile on hot coal for him, but THAT'S out of proportion.

Justin,
"Flesh and Spirit, are like oil and water, they don't mix particularly well.  Only through attunement to PUL can and will they begin to harmonize and balance."

Affection is part of it but many other experiences make up for getting to be in control of the experience rather than going along on a flesh ride, the more crowded mode of being, by design? The flesh suits are what they are, and stay that way until they're disconnected. It's not that some "ppl" have been lucky with their bodies, but that their spirits are more in charge, which various degrees of flesh controlled members of a disc pave way for.

Sourcespeed to your source attunement though I reckon source isn't really understandable while being in a body. Me thinks connecting to the disc is a great start.

A tune for the road
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXuVx-t-jM

Seraphis1 wrote, Quote:


  Possibly.  However, a Being (Rosies Guide) much more intune and conscious than i seemed to imply that there were much better ways of exploring the nonphysical. 

  Classic OBE is a type of phasing as i've explained to you before.   It's often the starting point for many people when they first start having nonphysical experiences (like training wheels), but often, as they spiritually grow (by attuning more and more to PUL and via life experience), such limited ways get left largely by the wayside.   By largely, i mean one still may have the occasional etheric body phasing experience (classic OBE), but it doesn't become the primary way.   One lessens the need for such physical like bells and whistles.   That's for people who need to be convinced, and who are still very physically centered.  One might say, overly "grounded". 

   Don't take my word for it, modify that earlier affirmation I recommended, and ask about this issue. 


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  I often urge the same, and i give good tools and methods to help people get past themselves, like that earlier affirmation for spiritual discrimination of outer sources.  I don't expect people to take my word on things, i don't want that.  I really wish they would seek deeper guidance on it, but here is the caveat--under the ideal circumstances and set up.  There are effective methods for getting and receiving guidance, and not so effective and more limiting methods. 

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  Oh so subtle dig.      Don't worry, i don't feel any need to get personal with any of this.  I care more about the information, and communicating in a kind (but albeit firm) and more impersonal way. 

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    Not sure what the above "proves" about your point?   If anything, it argues more for what Ah So, and i am trying to outline and explain. 

  Speaking of Monroe  , he is a great example of what i'm talking about--including his successor Bruce Moen. 

  When Monroe wrote his first book, he was as a personality, spiritually immature and unaware in many respects.   His 1st book is filled with fear and materialistic interpretations, nor was he particularly interested in service and retrievals, PUL-Oneness, Source, or higher level things like these at that point.  He was a firmly C1 entrenched business man who was quite fond of money and the material.

   Yet, his Disk/I-there, wanted to shake him up out of it all and it did that via practically almost forcing the classic out of body experience on him. 

  But the Bob Monroe in the 3rd and last book is a very different, MUCH, much more mature, spiritually aware, loving, and service oriented kind of person.   A lot of time and life experience happened between those stages.   And like you said, the Bob of this latter time, primarily explored the nonphysical through a more subtle phasing. 

  Hey, classic OBE as training wheels and/or as a start up thing, i see nothing limiting with.   We all need to start somewhere in the beginning.  I'm not necessarily trying to discourage people from being interested in or trying to have a classic OBE.   

My earlier statements were in the context of looking at people who have set themselves up as a spiritual or nonphysical source of expertise, know how, wisdom, etc.--so called spiritual teachers, and said that if they haven't gotten past the classic OBE yet, chances are they are limited spiritually for lack of greater attunement to PUL.   The degree of attunement to PUL is the yardstick of spiritual maturity or lack.    

  The "point" is, that you are not seeing, is that as someone attunes more and more purely and consistently to PUL, the more they will start to phase via their faster vibratory bodies or levels of being to explore and experience the nonphysical. 

  The ultimate "trick" is to pull a "He/She" and phase the physical body (& all other) vibrational pattern fully into the spiritual "body" or level, which is pure Light.  That takes a complete and pure attunement to PUL. 

  I don't expect the average would be teacher to be at that degree of maturity of He/She, BUT let's hope they've outgrown their training wheels at least.   

  See, if vibration is properly understood in terms of the balance between relativity and the absolute, then one understands that the more they attune to PUL, the fastest vibratory level there is, the more they speed up their inner vibratory patterns. 

  For exploring the nonphysical, this translates to "phasing"; phasing into ever higher "octaves" of dimensions, levels, bodies or whatever you want to call it.   

  Take Monroe again, and compare his successor Bruce Moen.  Part of the same Disk we are told.  Moen, by his own words and accounts has had a lack of experience with the classic OBE. 

  Why, surely a person so connected to Mr. classic OBE should have an easy time of it, no?   Well, i happen to believe that Moen came in as a faster vibratory personality to begin with than Monroe.  In a sense, he had a bit of a "head start" or started off as if he had the greater maturity of Bob Monroe to pull from in his own experiences and developement.  That's the great thing about being part of the same Disk, that degree of connection and inter-influence.   This is seen in various ways in Bruce compared to Bob.  For example, a much earlier interest in the nonphyscial and spiritual--especially in the all important things like PUL, Oneness, and helping others along their path. 

  So, no wonder, despite earlier yearnings, wishes, hopes, etc. that Bruce has had a hard time with having the classic OBE.   

  He's, on average, vibrationally beyond it, simply put.   It seems from the kinds of experiences he has reported, that he phases from the physical primarily into the upper emotional to the upper mental levels of self--speaking on average, though one wonders if maybe with his PI experiences and the PI raising his vibratory patterns in the temporary, that if Moen didn't get a taste of phasing into the spiritual body or level of self?    It seems like when Bob Monroe had that experience he related in his last book, wherein he went to the aperture and communicated with some completed Beings, that maybe he also had temporarily phased into his "spiritual body" or level of being, as well.