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Re:Robert Bruce! (Read 66984 times)
Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #15 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 8:27am
 
Elanor wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 6:37am:
Hello everyone!

After years of lurking and rarely posting, my Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook has arrived in my mail. I'm a bit scared, so wish me luck everyone...

Since we're on the topic of Sai Baba, I would like to recount an experience I had about fourteen years ago. I was in my school library, reading an article in a large encyclopedia-like book about Sai Baba.

All of a sudden, a strong pungent smell of sandalwood hit me in the face. I say "hit", because it seemed to suddenly manifest in front of my nose and fill my head with its scent. I was completely taken by surprise and looked around my friends reading and studying, to see if anyone noticed anything. Nobody seemed to.

So I went back to the book to see if it would happen a second time. It did!

When I was a child in primary school, I had a friend whose mum/stepmum (can't recall) believed in Sai Baba. She said that when it was her mum/stepmum's birthday, her home would be filled with the fragrance of sandalwood.

Is he a fraud? How do I account for this experience?

Elanor x


  I don't know what is true or not in your case, but here are a couple of alternative possibilities that you may not have thought of. 

  Many well known Gurus like Sai Baba, had while they were alive, and even when they die, many loyal and ardent followers. 

  Think collective thought form, and the power of group intention and focus. 

Imagine yourself standing amongst many people worshiping the same guy, and expecting a "miracle" manifestation from him.  With so much group focus and intent, so much Faith, then such a material "miracle" manifestation may very well happen, but be less due to the actual Guru's "power", but more to the collective power of such group focus, faith, and intent. 

  Similar to in some ways of how sometimes when Yeshua healed some people, he stated, "your faith has made you whole."  Except that in his case, he was really acting as a channel of Divine consciousness and didn't have all that group back up to help him out. (contrary to popular Church promoted belief, during his public ministry, there wasn't huge crowds that followed him around for the most part).  But as he said, their own faith and belief played an important part in their healing. 

  So when someone tunes into Sai Baba, they may so may be tuning in to the collective thought forms built up around him.  

  Another possibility is this:  From experience and guidance, i've learned that there are both unfriendly nonphysical consciousnesses and at least one unfriendly E.T. group that tries to mess with people on spiritual paths and try to mislead them in various ways. 

  One such way is leading them to the belief in a mostly false teacher (i say mostly because i believe that even most rather erring would be teachers have their moments of clarity, wisdom, or help to others--rarely is someone or some being completely negative in nature).  Both nonphysical former humans and especially that E.T. group can create such experiences for humans.   

  Such manifestations are in no way proof of Divine attunement.   

  However, if an individual human comes to have and demonstrate at times a complete mastery over physical matter and so called "laws", like walking on water, complete and instantaneous healings, etc. etc. without a lot of group back up, then chances are, there is probably something to that person, especially if these correlate with constant loving actions and vibe from the person.  And the greatest depth and purity of PUL attunement and channeling is often seen in self sacrifice for the benefit of others/the Whole.

  Such individuals and beings, will radiate an incredibly pure, vibrant, White Light, though at times it may be more towards the Golden shade (often when interacting with humans who cannot take such a powerful and pure radiation.)   This is another way to know whether or not a teacher is the realest deal & fully attuned to Souce and PUL.
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Lakeman
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #16 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:00am
 
I did not mean to imply that Monroe was a saint--only that, with respect to the guru role that others wished him to play in their spiritual lives, he was not into that game. In my book, that's a huge net plus. But that's the point: even saints aren't saints. I don't know Robert Bruce, and I didn't know Sai Baba. Could one learn from people or experience benefit even from those who are imperfect? Of course, since we are all imperfect. Whether the good outweighs the bad in any particular case will be a mater of judgment, and in some cases legitimate disagreement. Not every teacher is good for every student. We are all individuals. I think it's important, however, not to lose sight of one's own critical faculties and to keep handy, at all times, what Sam Keen calls one's "spiritual bullshit detector."
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #17 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 12:50pm
 
  I agree on all points Lakeman.  I also don't resonate at all with RB, and never have.  It's the developement of that "spiritual b.s. detector" that you talked about is why when it comes to outer sources, there only a small handful of sources i listen more deeply too.   RAM and B.M. are some of the relative few.
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #18 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 2:57pm
 
Justin,

"So when someone tunes into Sai Baba, they may so may be tuning in to the collective thought forms built up around him."

This is what happens with belief system areas in the astral, and sai baba is merely a grain on the beach. Eons worth of incarnations have created the areas and their "masters". And when the areas and lords don't receive energy/worship anymore, they fall apart and start to fade away, take a look at valhalla for reference if interested. While the areas serve many purposes, one of the bad ones is that it acts as a second stage or continuation of confusion for incarnations withdrawing from earth, with their discs yet being in the blind spot.

Why would someone with even a semi-open heart chakra stand up for a child molesting incarnation? Unconditional submission, and no or little use of measurement to notice the cracks. The offender and defender would be on opposite extremes of the spectrum, and yet walk hand in hand into the sunset.

Something to have in mind is that if one dares to take a peek at the other incarnations of one's disc it can be somewhat shocking to some, and a current incarnation thinking pul's the ultimate is no exception. As time is a 3D construct, one could be smelling roses in one decade and at the same time burning down a village in another decade.
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recoverer
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #19 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:34pm
 
Here's the link.  Toggle down if you want to read the post where he seems to be defending Sai Baba's actions in order to defend himself.

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3954&start=0


PauliEffectt wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 10:16pm:
recoverer wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:29pm:
Regardless of the above, why did he find it necessary to defend Sai Baba's child molesting activities by saying things such as it was okay for Sai Baba to have sex with the children because they allowed it?


Could you please provide the clip.

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #20 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:38pm
 
Lakeman:

I agree with what you say. I have had a lot of exposure to the guru scene. The tradition basically originates from India, and people basically surrender their lives to their gurus including much of their ability to think for themselves. People do things such as drink the water that was used to wash a guru's feet.

My feeling is that a person who lives according to love would never allow others to treat him (or her) in a worshipfull way, nor claim to hold the key to their spiritual welfare.


Lakeman wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:27pm:
I once heard Joseph Campbell talk, many years ago, about the dangers of the guru practice and concept (both in Asia and as it is imported here). He said that in the east, the idea is that the student should submit absolutely to the guru’s authority, even turning over moral decision-making to the teacher. He pointed out the dangers that such submission poses, and how the idea of individual decision-making and personal authority has been a cornerstone of the western consciousness. It seems to me that the Sai Baba case provides a vivid illustration of what Campbell was talking about, and also how followers will try to rationalize the most despicable behavior as “crazy wisdom” or evidence of some higher values that mere mortals and peons like us are not supposed to question. This is authoritarian and totalitarian thinking, pure and simple mind control. I have also read some of Robert Bruce’s books. It seems to me that he likes to come off as a “Man of Knowledge”--a guru-like authority who Knows and Has Experienced It All. This is very different (or so it seems to me) from Bruce Moen’s “here try this and see if it works,” and Bob Monroe’s “check it out for yourself,” approaches. I think all guru-types wind up painting themselves into a corner, and, for the sake of the rest of us, they should be left there.

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #21 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:45pm
 
Guru based books from India often have a strong smell of sandlewood.  I don't know the details, but they are put through some process that makes this so.

Also, if the book used to be owned by a person who used to burn incense, or was sold by a bookstore that did so, the book might end up smelling this way.

Sai Baba has been caught doing sleight of hand tricks where he makes things such as flowers and watches appear. When one watch company stopped doing business in India the brand of watches he supposedly materialized changed. If you check youtube you can find a video where he is caught doing a sleight of hand trick.


Elanor wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 6:37am:
Hello everyone!

After years of lurking and rarely posting, my Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook has arrived in my mail. I'm a bit scared, so wish me luck everyone...

Since we're on the topic of Sai Baba, I would like to recount an experience I had about fourteen years ago. I was in my school library, reading an article in a large encyclopedia-like book about Sai Baba.

All of a sudden, a strong pungent smell of sandalwood hit me in the face. I say "hit", because it seemed to suddenly manifest in front of my nose and fill my head with its scent. I was completely taken by surprise and looked around my friends reading and studying, to see if anyone noticed anything. Nobody seemed to.

So I went back to the book to see if it would happen a second time. It did!

When I was a child in primary school, I had a friend whose mum/stepmum (can't recall) believed in Sai Baba. She said that when it was her mum/stepmum's birthday, her home would be filled with the fragrance of sandalwood.

Is he a fraud? How do I account for this experience?

Elanor x

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recoverer
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #22 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:55pm
 
I don't know what Robert Bruce is all about, and it could be that he has some abilities. I do question his discrimination. Outside of Sai Baba, he also recommends books by Da Free (goes by various names) and Chogyam Trungpa.

Da Free John was one of the most corrupt American gurus ever. He too claimed to be an Avatar, incarnation of God. He claimed that there has never been a person as high as him and there never will be again. Back in the 80s he wrote that eventually all of the slugs of this world will follow him. Never happened.

Chogyam Trungpa was an alcoholic who had affairs with his followers. Osel Tendzin was his supposed enlightened successor, yet he had sex with his followers even though he knew that he had aids. He didn't tell his followers that this was the case.

Both Trungpa and Da Free spoke of themselves as if they are crazy wisdom teachers. Blah, blah, blah.


kirolak wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 4:41am:
Just to point out that I have only ever had kindness & assistance, not to mention distance healing, from Robert Bruce. . . who knows what really happened with the Sai Baba manifestation. . . spirits are as capable of misrepresenting themselves as we meat-bound beings are. Sad

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recoverer
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #23 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 8:20pm
 
Another thing that bugs me about Robert Bruce is his thing about attacking negs with a sword. I thought light workers seek to help beings caught up in a negative state of mind rather than destroy them.

Plus, how precisely do you harm a non-physical being with a psychic sword? Do you chop off their astral head? Do they blead astral blood?
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Seraphis1
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #24 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 9:46pm
 
Quote:
  I recently checked out this site.  I did not like how when i tried to exit the main page without signing up for the blog, that i was redirected to another page ala spyware/spam like ways which asked me if i was sure if i wanted to exit without signing up for the blog. 

  The above does not speak of integrity to me. 


Hi Justin: Why not send a message to Bruce about your concerns... I don't think he has a really high powered technical staff... this may be an issue of competent internet programers as opposed to people who use standardized internet software and are unable to do modify it.

S.
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Seraphis1
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #25 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 9:57pm
 
Lakeman wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:27pm:
I once heard Joseph Campbell talk, many years ago, about the dangers of the guru practice and concept (both in Asia and as it is imported here). He said that in the east, the idea is that the student should submit absolutely to the guru’s authority, even turning over moral decision-making to the teacher. He pointed out the dangers that such submission poses, and how the idea of individual decision-making and personal authority has been a cornerstone of the western consciousness. It seems to me that the Sai Baba case provides a vivid illustration of what Campbell was talking about, and also how followers will try to rationalize the most despicable behavior as “crazy wisdom” or evidence of some higher values that mere mortals and peons like us are not supposed to question. This is authoritarian and totalitarian thinking, pure and simple mind control. I have also read some of Robert Bruce’s books. It seems to me that he likes to come off as a “Man of Knowledge”--a guru-like authority who Knows and Has Experienced It All. This is very different (or so it seems to me) from Bruce Moen’s “here try this and see if it works,” and Bob Monroe’s “check it out for yourself,” approaches. I think all guru-types wind up painting themselves into a corner, and, for the sake of the rest of us, they should be left there.


Hi: This may be a missrepresentation of Robert Bruce.  Everything he puts out there is intended to be reproduced by the student. He is not espousing dogma that is to believed... each person is to practice and prove for themselves the validity of the work... either you are moving energy or you are not... RB can't demand that you do so.

So there should be more careful understanding of the work before back door condemnation and accusation.

S.
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #26 - Feb 17th, 2011 at 10:01pm
 
kirolak wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 4:41am:
Just to point out that I have only ever had kindness & assistance, not to mention distance healing, from Robert Bruce. . . who knows what really happened with the Sai Baba manifestation. . . spirits are as capable of misrepresenting themselves as we meat-bound beings are. Sad


Well said Kirolak.

S.
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 2:25am
 
Justin, thanks for your thoughts. I bought Astral Dynamics several years ago when it came out, and was in contact with the author who considered publishing my OOBE experience in the book. I thought RB was the "real deal", but then I'm just a newbie and still honing that "spiritual bs detector"...

Recoverer, I'm positive that the book itself did not smell of sandalwood, the fragrance simply seemed to materlise (and very strongly so) out of thin air, and after a while disappeared completely.

E
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 6:43am
 
recoverer wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:34pm:
Here's the link.  Toggle down if you want to read the post where he seems to be defending Sai Baba's actions in order to defend himself.

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3954&start=0


PauliEffectt wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 10:16pm:
recoverer wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 9:29pm:
Regardless of the above, why did he find it necessary to defend Sai Baba's child molesting activities by saying things such as it was okay for Sai Baba to have sex with the children because they allowed it?


Could you please provide the clip.



That link didn't support your words.

recoverer, you are the only source claiming that RB would have said what you wrote above.

You don't seem to be able to make your claim valid.
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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #29 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 6:56am
 
recoverer wrote on Feb 17th, 2011 at 7:55pm:
I don't know what Robert Bruce is all about...  ... he also recommends books by Da Free (goes by various names) and Chogyam Trungpa.

I did a search (of those names) on the AD forum and found nothing backing your claims. Could you please provide links for those two claims of yours?
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