Conversation Board - Re:Robert Bruce!

b2

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #120 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 1:46pm

One last thing I will say, Recoverer, is that if you are trying to communicate on such an important subject as 'abuse by gurus', perhaps listen to the responses that you receive. It is clear to me by listening to the responses to your posts over the years, that, by a large margin, your message seems to be grudgingly acknowledged, and often taken as a hostile one towards people that you don't actually know. If you have good feelings toward these people, it does not come through in a way that is understood, if you understand what I'm saying. But, it's really none of my business. I simply feel that it might be worth considering what message is actually getting through to people, if your heart is in the right place, as you see it. Take care. That's all I really have to add.

recoverer wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 1:16pm:

One needs to ask one's self is it actually loving to not speak up when one person misleads others. One needs to make certain that one doesn't buy into a concept of being loving, rather than actually being loving.

I say this with the viewpoint that some people won't say anything anything against others because according to the pattern of mind they use when they try to be loving, you can never say anything negative about another.

It isn't a matter of saying negative things about others for the purpose of putting them down. It is a matter of trying to make it so people who mislead others do so less.

I have no negative feelings towards Sai Baba and Robert Bruce. I wish them the best. If you knew about some of the people and beings I helped retrieve, you'd understand that I'm not into punishing people.

My feeling is that once Sai Baba reaches the point where he can consider what he did honestly, he would have no problem with what I say. The negative results of what he did still continue today. When he becomes a responsible soul he'll want such negative effects to go away. He'll greatly appreciate people who spoke against him and therefore helped minimize the negative effects.

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Seraphis1

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #121 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 2:47pm

recoverer wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

Seraphis1, if you knew me, you'd see how inapplicable your below words are. If you think it's okay for a person who makes up stories to be a leader of perhaps a key spiritual center, that's your choice.

If a person doesn't have a closed mind, he (or she), even if he doesn't choose to agree with what Justin and I wrote, would at the very least see that what we say has some merit.

Seraphis wrote: Hi Pauli: You are beating a dead horse. There is a rule in the world of reincarnation... the thing you hate the most is the thing you have not resolved within your own personal universe... and the thing you will have to go through at some point... the thing you have sympathy for is the thing you have already resolved in your own universe.. in short recoverer is cruising toward a waterfall... and at some point he will become the thing he hates.

S.

Hi R: From my point of view you seem to be bailing the ocean with a teaspoon... the cosmos is quite self-correcting without a lot of help from puny human intrusion... that said there are laws that govern the ebb and flow of personal issues... on a cosmic level which you fit like a glove... attacking Robert Bruce, Eckhart Tolle and others is unworthy... Bobert Bruce someday will be seen to be a major theoretician in the metaphysical field... there are at least three discoveries he has identified that would achieve major awards if there where such metaphysical entiites to make such award of peer reviewed research.

S.

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recoverer

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #122 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 3:15pm

Seraphis:

If everybody does their part then what needs to be accomplished will be accomplished. If everybody does nothing with the thought that one person can't do anything, then nothing will be accomplished.

I did not attack Robert Bruce and Tolle in a malicious way. I simply wrote about behavior I consider questionable. If a person doesn't want people to say negative things about him, then he shouldn't become a public figure and then do unethical things.

Is it okay to speak about the unethical things George W did, or should everybody keep quiet with the concept they are being loving?

Perhaps a future president would be less likely to do as George W did if he (or she) understood that he would be held accountable.

Perhaps fewer people would become false gurus if people had enough gumption to stand up to them.

Perhaps what took place in Egypt is a better example of what works, than when people act as if everything is a-okay when it isn't.

Seraphis1 wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 2:47pm:

recoverer wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

Seraphis1, if you knew me, you'd see how inapplicable your below words are. If you think it's okay for a person who makes up stories to be a leader of perhaps a key spiritual center, that's your choice.

If a person doesn't have a closed mind, he (or she), even if he doesn't choose to agree with what Justin and I wrote, would at the very least see that what we say has some merit.

Seraphis wrote: Hi Pauli: You are beating a dead horse. There is a rule in the world of reincarnation... the thing you hate the most is the thing you have not resolved within your own personal universe... and the thing you will have to go through at some point... the thing you have sympathy for is the thing you have already resolved in your own universe.. in short recoverer is cruising toward a waterfall... and at some point he will become the thing he hates.

S.

Hi R: From my point of view you seem to be bailing the ocean with a teaspoon... the cosmos is quite self-correcting without a lot of help from puny human intrusion... that said there are laws that govern the ebb and flow of personal issues... on a cosmic level which you fit like a glove... attacking Robert Bruce, Eckhart Tolle and others is unworthy... Bobert Bruce someday will be seen to be a major theoretician in the metaphysical field... there are at least three discoveries he has identified that would achieve major awards if there where such metaphysical entiites to make such award of peer reviewed research.

S.

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Justin aka Vasya

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #123 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 3:43pm

Yeshua occasionally spoke critically about the erring behavior of some people and of groups, and he was according to Rosiland McKnight's guidance, "the highest vibratory being born into the Earth".

So, even such a loving and Source attuned person as he addressed the shadow in others, in life, and in human interactions.

In fact, if he hadn't spoken critically about the behaviors, actions, limited beliefs and mind sets, etc. of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, etc., chances are they would have been less likely to have plotted his murder. It's what angered them the most.

One doesn't have to be coming from a place of typical human judgment, negative feelings, unlove, etc. to speak critically about such things. I would suspect that Yeshua spoke about those things precisely because he was a very loving and aware person, and he wanted to the average person to wake up and take back some of the power they had handed over to the Pharisees, and other "authorities" or so called experts of the time.

So, sometimes it can be a good thing to address the lacks of a particular authority, if done with the right intent, motivation, and feelings. The Teacher of teachers example shows this pretty plainly.

Such inner, heart realities are often very hard to read from anothers typed words over the I-net unless the person reading is a very clear, balanced, and intune sensitive/intuitive who is not emotionally involved with or hung up on the subject or interaction at hand.

With that said, there is also wisdom in knowing when enough is enough, and not continuing the same old same old.

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Justin aka Vasya

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #124 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 3:56pm

Speaking of addressing lacks and of impersonal criticism. If you read "Cosmic Journey's" by Rosiland A. McKnight, you will probably note, like i did that Rosie's guidance was generally very supportive, gentle, and loving when it came to interacting with Rosie and Bob Monroe.

But, this wasn't always the case. There is a chapter in that book called something like, "Control: The Foods We Eat."

At one point in Rosie's guidance's work with Bob and Rosie, they got very serious with both of them about their need to clean up their act when it came to health and diet lifestyle choices.

In fact, at one point they made it clear that if Rosie and Bob didn't do this, that they would stop working in manner they had been working with Bob and Rosie till that point.

They were both told they needed much more discipline and consistency in those areas. That it was important to do if they wanted the information to come through in a more clear and less distorted way (reminds me of Edgar Cayce's guidance and their occasional admonitions to him to clean up his act when it came to health, food, etc).

But wait, criticism coming from such aware and loving Guidance energies?? Not possible!

Ah, but Love is so much more and bigger than we realize, and there is a such a thing or aspect of the big PUL as tough love, of which Rosie and Bob tasted with "Ah So" and her guidance team.

Just something to think about before putting Love into little rose colored boxes of the Venusian tint.

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Justin aka Vasya

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #125 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 4:06pm

Btw, just a quick note to Don regarding RB and the Sai Baba issue.

I completely agree with Recoverer's take on this issue. If you read the account closely and carefully, you will understand that RB was not describing a typical, run of the mill astral visitation, but rather a full, instant materialization that it's rumored in various esoteric and occult sources that only the "Masters" /completed Beings or Angels can do. Meaning, they can re-create or materialize a physical body on the spot from within Consciousness.

This makes it a very different issue than what you seem to have been presupposing. Also, there is the other issue that Albert brought up which you don't seem to be taking into account.

I suspect this is because you more or less like or "resonate" with RB's material, as i've seen you speak positively about him on several occasions in the further past, and seem to hold him and his work in higher esteem than Bob Monroe or Bruce Moen and their work.

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PauliEffectt

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #126 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 5:04pm

Justin,
what are you doing?

Quote:

Btw, just a quick note to Don regarding RB and the Sai Baba issue.

I completely agree with Recoverer's take on this issue. If you read the account closely and carefully, you will understand that RB was not describing a typical, run of the mill astral visitation, but rather a full, instant materialization that it's rumored in various esoteric and occult sources that only the "Masters" /completed Beings or Angels can do. Meaning, they can re-create or materialize a physical body on the spot from within Consciousness.

Why do you throw sh!t in my face?

I let you get away with it before because I clearly remember you say:

Quote:

I'm not going to comment anymore on the RB issue on this thread, as i said earlier.

But now you _are_ commenting on it.

Why do you lie?

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recoverer

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #127 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 5:20pm

Pauli:

You are "really" grasping at straws here. To call somebody a liar because he changed his mind about talking about something further, seems a bit off-based. Perhaps Justin decided to talk some more because he figured that the need that exists now is different than the need that existed before. Certainly a person can see that needs have changed without being a liar.

PauliEffectt wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 5:04pm:

Justin,
what are you doing?

Quote:

Btw, just a quick note to Don regarding RB and the Sai Baba issue.

I completely agree with Recoverer's take on this issue. If you read the account closely and carefully, you will understand that RB was not describing a typical, run of the mill astral visitation, but rather a full, instant materialization that it's rumored in various esoteric and occult sources that only the "Masters" /completed Beings or Angels can do. Meaning, they can re-create or materialize a physical body on the spot from within Consciousness.

Why do you throw sh!t in my face?

I let you get away with it before because I clearly remember you say:

Quote:

I'm not going to comment anymore on the RB issue on this thread, as i said earlier.

But now you _are_ commenting on it.

Why do you lie?

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Justin aka Vasya

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #128 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 6:44pm

Recoverer, that is exactly what i felt and thought. Almost a month ago, when i stated what i stated, it was because i was seeing too much hostility and personalness involved in the discussion and thought it would be better to be silent on the specific issue. Plus it seemed to be going in circles.

But the "point" Don brought up, i thought was an important one to address since it seemed to be glossing over certain important facets of this issue.

I will go back to silent mode though on this issue, since when people start swearing at me it seems to be an indication of what i was talking about earlier when i explained why i stopped talking the first time.

P.S., i can take it just fine for myself, but i'm also thinking of others and the forums best interest.

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Seraphis1

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #129 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 7:31pm

recoverer wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

Seraphis:

If everybody does their part then what needs to be accomplished will be accomplished. If everybody does nothing with the thought that one person can't do anything, then nothing will be accomplished.

I did not attack Robert Bruce and Tolle in a malicious way. I simply wrote about behavior I consider questionable. If a person doesn't want people to say negative things about him, then he shouldn't become a public figure and then do unethical things.

Is it okay to speak about the unethical things George W did, or should everybody keep quiet with the concept they are being loving?

Perhaps a future president would be less likely to do as George W did if he (or she) understood that he would be held accountable.

Perhaps fewer people would become false gurus if people had enough gumption to stand up to them.

Perhaps what took place in Egypt is a better example of what works, than when people act as if everything is a-okay when it isn't.

Hi R: If what you wrote was not meant to be malicious it sure comes across that way and doesn't laud or acknowledge the real work that RB does the important stuff... I personally don't like the Australian accent... some american females think it is cute... so it is certainly a matter of style... and opinion... but, that does not stop me from recognizing a brilliant mind at work... RB also looks like the sinister Satanist... Aleister Crowley... but, does that make him Aleister Crowley... hell no... Robert Monroe looks like a slick automobile salesman... is that a reason to dump on his work... no!!!

S.

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Pat E.

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #130 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 1:02am

Pauli, in reading many of your posts on this thread, I have wanted to say to you: "Who died and made you God?" Or, perhaps, more accurately, "Why do you think you have the right to scream, yell and throw tantrums on this forum when you don't like what others say?" Be part of a civil discourse or go rant, rave and throw tantrums somewhere else. And I really don't have a dog in this fight because I don't know much about Robert Bruce or Sai Baba (or Ali Baba or whatever his name is) beyond what I've read here.

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Seraphis1

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #131 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 1:24am

Pat E. wrote on Mar 15^th, 2011 at 1:02am:

Pauli, in reading many of your posts on this thread, I have wanted to say to you: "Who died and made you God?" Or, perhaps, more accurately, "Why do you think you have the right to scream, yell and throw tantrums on this forum when you don't like what others say?" Be part of a civil discourse or go rant, rave and throw tantrums somewhere else. And I really don't have a dog in this fight because I don't know much about Robert Bruce or Sai Baba (or Ali Baba or whatever his name is) beyond what I've read here.

Come now Pat... you know who Ali Baba was...

Grin

S.

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Lucy

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #132 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 4:44am

Don

I appreciated seeing your comment about feeling more welcome here in posting on afterlife topics than on a forum of fellow Christians. I imagine that was a big disappointment to you. but I'm not surprised that the Christian posters weren't interested. As I wrote in another thread, when I went to a talk by author and hospice nurse Elissa Al-Chokhachy, several people were moved to tell about the things that happened to them that they believed were communications from a loved one who had recently "died", and often the comments included saying that they couldn't talk to others about this, including clergy or others in their church. I find that both puzzling and understandable.

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Lucy

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Re: Re:Robert Bruce!
Reply #133 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 5:22am

Quote:

What does the character of a child molester like Sai Baba have to do with the genuiness of his astral appearance to Robert Bruce? Psychic gifts need not be a reward for a commendable character.

I don't think this has been genuinely addressed. I think Don makes a good point. It is not a new idea that talents and spiritual growth are not necessarily tied together. But sometimes it is difficult to keep things separate. I'm not sure anything Monroe did is about spiritual growth. It is about developing talents (like obe). I'm not sure studying afterlife knowledge is about spiritual growth. It is about developing a state of conciousness.

Who you meet in your adventures may make a difference in your life, but I'm not sure being able to make the journey is a sign of enlightenment.

I don't think RB's making a comment about Sai Baba and then not condemning him to someone else's satisfaction invalidates RB's work. Still haven't seen a discussion on whether or not RB's techniques work for anyone.

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PauliEffectt Senior Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 472 Gender:	Re: Re:Robert Bruce! Reply #134 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 5:59am Lucy wrote on Mar 15^th, 2011 at 5:22am: [quote] Still haven't seen a discussion on whether or not RB's techniques work for anyone. I guess that has a higher chance of being detected by reading threads at RB's site, both in any of the general forums and in the Ask Robert Forum.
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