This is a couple of pages from a book I'm working on. No it's not for you, it's for my son, but you are welcome to read it sometime if you have any interest.

I'd especially love comments on the clarity ...thanks a ton, y'all.

On Christianity a can only say I have nothing at against it as a path for enlightenment. There are many truths within the main text for the reader to glean and apply to a lifetime. But when a Christian sites the Bible or some biblical scholar’s opinion more likely as actual evidence as opposed to mere speculation based on what they have taken something to mean I get perplexed. It would be like me taking a passage from The Seth Material and quoting it as evidence. Even if someone finds a proof for themselves within, while it may be worth sharing with others, the fundamentalist has this need to propagate what I consider mythology and that I can definitely base on evidence. Just a small knowledge of religious history makes that obvious. Jesus makes a great front man for a higher understanding, but there is nothing as yet found that was written by Jesus’ own hand. I have only a few doubts that Jesus existed, but I don’t think he thought of himself as any more than me or you, and that was one of the very things that gave him a kind of power.

The Bible was written for a certain people at a certain time and used to create an orderly society based the ideals of a few very powerful men. So many pagan traditions were incorporated that it seems less than odd to me that most of the New Testament would maintain a very powerful hold. Fear will always carry the people who are feeling the need to go along, whether by force or by choice, to accommodate the powers that be. Over time things that are seen and believed are based on scripture and the scripture is where the root of the evidence begins. I would have to say that that is the fruit of the poisoned tree. The Bible is not poison, but its influence over the thinking person is just that. The Christ myth is taken almost directly from the myth of Osiris and several others before him. Even the old testament which contains a much harsher god is still based on out dated ideals in many places. That’s really the problem with organized religion. It breaks down one’s ability to push forward and evolve spiritually.

Spiritual evolution is hard enough without road blocks at every turn and people citing their “evidence” as some reason why you are wrong to do what you are doing even when you do what you do because you are on your true path. They will argue every notion that is available to them to “help” you see the light and in my opinion that makes them a guru wanna be.

My girlfriend is a highly devout Christian believer. She questions very little if it is in the holy texts. One might think we have a very unlikely and even futile relationship, but that is not the case so long as we avoid the discussions of our spiritual paths. In some ways I have had many relationships that were much more productive for my quest, but I have to say that being with her has been very helpful for me to sort out where I want to go along my path, even though it does not seemingly coincide with her path. The open mind scares the Christian faith and most organized religions because it means questioning the unquestionble. And even if there is some idea brought into question it is quickly dispatched with by seeking scripture for guidance...nothing wrong with that for some. For others the process is more complicated within themselves though the Christian will tell you that you are making it easy on yourself by casting out the one true faith for what you find in your own mind. They will also argue that they are not doing that. So what are you supposed to do. Coexist as best you can, but don’t abandon your quest for what you were sent here for. When I feel I’m being pushed too far by a fundamentalist I simply use a pneumonic device that I repeat in my brain. Bible equals Buy Bull. I’m not saying it’s all Bullshit. The Bible contains some of the most beautiful ideas ever brought to light, but within it is a control agenda that is not very hard to spot. I respect what I know of what Jesus tried or is trying to do, but I don’t think it has much to do with Christianity. I really don’t. I think he would be forgiving, but highly alarmed at what has been done in his name.

I have read the biblical accounts of the crucifixion and I have read other accounts too. The last one I read was in Seth Speaks. Many would be up in arms over what Seth says happened during the crucifixion, but I find it much more plausible than the inspired event depicted in the new testament. Perhaps physical laws can be overcome here, but I have yet to see evidence of that and none has been provided from that time 2000 years ago, no more proof than the Greek gods lounged around on Olympus all day long waging havoc on the puny humans. You can see some “evidence” if you are looking in places where “evidence” is cited. But where fact is cited in these places virtually no EVIDENCE exists.

Do I need evidence for my particular path. Yes, but not the kind that requires any citing of another’s point of view or the books of another’s point of view. I need subjective evidence that perhaps only I will be privy to. I am happy to share what I have learned about myself with anyone who can entertain it, but I don’t have much interest in citing my ideas and theories as facts or proving them with evidence even though I can find plenty of evidence for my statements and feelings.

Those who cling to religion are on their own path too. I respect that, but I have a son who I surely do not want to be encumbered with a whole lot of “cited evidence” on along his path that might scare him, as I was scared, into leaving his own judgment behind in favor of a trend, no matter how long that trend has been in existence. I hope he won’t find himself in some cult, be it Christianity or otherwise, but wherever he finds himself I hope he can keep an open mind and listen to others, grow along his own path, and stay true to his own heart.

The symbol of Jesus is important to me and my path, whether he was or wasn’t ever what he has been purported to be. When asked what commandments were the most important to keep I feel he gave the perfect answer. “Love God above all, and love your neighbor as yourself”. I believe he is actually saying the same thing twice there, but that’s certainly open to discussion and has been for a VERY long time. Like Robin Hood, Jesus provides us with a symbol of greatness in a time that could easily have been trampled over and the human essence taken prisoner around the world. Some might argue that with the advent of Christianity that is exactly what happened, but the true symbol of a Jesus fighting the establishment carries on, thank goodness.

I know that many who know me think I have a major problem with Jesus, but truly it is only their view of him that gives me the willies. I love to break bread and wine (or grape juice, no added sugar) with my friends and I feel when we do so we invite a very humbling spirit into our midst. I am sharing them and they are sharing me...there no Jesus excluded from that ceremony. The only exclusions are the imposed ones that do not, in my opinion fit the character of the Jesus I have come to know.

Much has been made of late of the Tibetan Book of the Dead. When I read it there seemed to be a great deal of truth there. They believe that upon death you will be faced with temptations that could easily seduce you back into earthly existence and maybe so. It makes as much sense as sitting upon a cloud with harps playing or burning for eternity in the Hell fires. Truly it makes more sense to me as I come to understand, WHAT I BELEIVE TO BE the process of dying.

At the end of life, but before actual death, we break even with our highest self, however you may interpret that. If we break even then we come to an understanding that we are more than our physical bodies. If we for some dreadful reason have not yet made that connection then the seductions spoken about in the Tibetan Book of the Dead could possibly reign upon us. You see, I just don’t know the answer to that as I only have my opinions based on my subjective experience, but if I were to believe the Bible rendition of death what would really be the difference? ...in terms of evidence? The Book of the Dead is older. Wouldn’t that by Christian standards make it MORE accurate? Well, Of course not, that would be silly. It wasn’t written for the same group of people at the same time in history. It was a different means of control, but control non the less, as I see it. And that control was not placed within the texts to be harmful. These people believed the best way to reach the masses was to take the most direct route as best they could see it at the time to insure the salvation of all. I just don’t think it was their job to do so. Work on yourself. That’s my motto. Sharing ideas, sure, but not crushing someone else by pronouncing that one way is better than another. That’s what those old fogies did way back when. ...and many of them were the people Jesus was, frankly, infuriated with. Or so it appears to my eyes.

I belong to several discussion boards. One, has a very open minded group of people from all walks of religion and or spiritual quality. Another requires a little scientific knowledge to keep up and it is almost exclusively about the work of a particular author who bases his theory on current physics, but with the inclusion of a non physical matter reality that is fundamental to the physical reality, thus making this physical reality a subset of the greater non physical reality. It’s heady stuff sometimes, but both of these boards have highly strengthened my concept of who I am ...and who I AM is. I’ve been told by others on both of these boards at varying times that I was either out of my mind or right on the money. I don’t see how one can go wrong with such a record, you know?

The best thoughts that come to me come during meditation. Well, I’m really lazy afterward so I don’t usually write them down unless I’m asked to so I lose about as much as I gain from each experience, but just going to the effort to find the truth (for me, as the truth IN MY OPINION is spherical and can only be known to each subjectively from their own viewpoint upon the sphere)makes all the difference in my excitement about the quest for enlightenment. It’s not a cut and dry path for me. It could be for you and I’ll make no argument against your way. I have to know it for myself and if no one else gets it I figure in the end we all will, so whats the big deal?

Beau,

Have you ever watched the Zeitgeist movie from Peter Joseph? Part 1 is called The Greatest Story Ever Told and includes a good deal and maybe a little more insight on some of the things you have discussed. If you haven't seen it check it here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197#

Part 1 is about 30-45 minutes and at the beginning of it. The rest of it covers government conspiracies.

The third Zeitgeist film is coming in October.

This is the problem I have with Christianity, and religion as a whole. It takes away free will. You get needled at birth and psychology takes its role. There's already proof that psychology impacts us all. But there is also proof that psychological impact can be overcome. You do not have to behave strictly from how you have nurtured and you can even take control of what effects you in nature.

Once consciousness starts coming into perspective, thats when you really get your power in life.

But you have so many people in religion living FOR that religion and BECAUSE of that religion and making no effort to go beyond it and find the truth for themselves. There are some people who have done that and then come back and gone..."Ok. Christianity makes the most sense for me, but not this part. I'm going to believe in Jesus and practice his message and that is my path. No more church. I'm my own preacher. This is my life. I get it."

Which I respect. They don't preach to people. They just know what they are and how to live and they do that, and they respect everyone else.

But then you have these people saying "You're not open minded because you won't open your mind to Christianity."


That's so unbelievably profound! Wow! Here I was thinking I knew what open mindedness was and not limiting myself to a single belief, and some genius says "Hey, buddy. I'm a Christian and I've found it's the right path. You're not so smart because you won't agree with me."

That's when you wouldn't mind shaking someone to see if they wake up. Someone who is truly open minded would be able to see the destruction caused directly from religion. Go ahead and make a list.

"Oh well that was all necessary for the greater good. Didn't you see how many people came together after 9/11!"

Right. Good job. Like all the jews that came together during the Holocaust. Hell lets go ahead and thank religion for the Protestant Reformation too. That helped America form right? Or it could just be that people went exploring and that would have happened without catastrophe associated with religion. Whatever. Religion has played its part in our world. It's time to go.

All I know is that once you don't have the limitation to a particular belief, many things start to make sense and you can find answers on your own. The best philosophers were agnostics. A lot of people are agnostics even if they don't label themselves as such. These are all the people that simply separate belief and knowledge. If you find yourself philosophizing and reasoning a lot in your mind, and you don't have a specific belief system...agnostic is kind of where you are. And there are lines to agnosticism. There's atheistic agnosticism.

I consider myself to be a "spiritual agnostic." I find it to be a very beneficial philosophy, even before I found out its practiced by other people and wasn't an original term.

I'm definitely not a preacher. I engage in discussion. My coworker and I had a discussion tonight in regards to this subject. He's a Christian and at no point did we ever debate or disagree. He in fact agreed with me on everything I argued against Christianity, admitted he finds Church to be pointless, that the Bible was not to be taken literally, and that religion had indeed done a lot of harm to the world. He simply believed in Jesus and his message, in living a compassionate and loving lifestyle, and enhancing your personal life as well as the lives around it.
I certainly can't argue that. If all Christians believed as he did, we wouldn't have a problem.

I've got a pretty good feeling that everyone who dies is going to go "OOOOHHHH! Wow I never thought of that." Maybe not. Maybe we can find the absolute truth, but I think we can only find fragments of it and never the whole picture.

Perhaps just as we can't figure out whether the afterlife exists through academic study, we can't figure out if Jesus existed through academic study.

On the other hand, if we have an experience or two, or three, or..., we might be able to figure out that way. I've had a number of experiences with the spirit of Jesus and so have other people.

Now I know some people get into the interpreter business, but some people including myself have had experiences with Jesus for which it was clear that more than an interpreter issue was involved.

Perhaps people who haven't had an experience with Jesus and doubt that his existence is verified by people who say they had an experience with him, are similar to experience-lacking-skeptics who doubt what people who have had near death experiences, out of body experiences and other supernatural experiences have to say.

Near death experiencers don't need to be concerned about what unexperienced NDE naysayers have to say. Perhaps the same is true for people who have had an experience with the spirit of Jesus. 

I hope no one thinks I'm rejecting Jesus, that would suck. I'm just saying that if Jesus is your man its a personal experience as best I can tell. I don't think the Bible is his instrument. It's just an opinion. I'm sure some of what he said is in there and I'm pretty sure that some of it was added to give some correlation with the myth. "Jesus is just alright with me." I guess my jury is out on whether he is in charge, but certainly, if accounts can be trusted, he was a great man. But it troubles me that there is nothing from his own hand, at least that survives and I have to ask myself why that is. Not even a definite account from his three year period. Sure you can say you have to have faith, but that's not good enough for me. I think Jesus was saying find your way to the father and that no one comes through the father but by him was added later to keep thing copacetic with the ruling elite of the time. No book is flawless and that's why we have to dig for ourselves, a scavenger hunt if you will.

Hey, it's an opinion.

As for the NDEs that Albert mentions I don't deny them, but I think we see what we expect to see and its just common sense to call on Jesus if you were raised with him in your life when things get out of hand. Still, if he was, he was great most definitely.