I am aware this theory is not completely unique (though it was to me at first) and I am very content with that. It is a theory which holds a lot of merit and I would hope there is much truth to it. This theory attributes most religions into its concept and can technically resolve most, if not all questions to our human capacity.

If you read my last post in the "Evidence...God" thread, then you should understand that the biology of organisms, this planet, our solar system, and the universe are made of complex systems. These systems are incredibly designed and from our perspective of evolution, this design begins with imperfection and heads towards perfection. On a smaller scale, we can attribute this to everything we know. Even just ignoring these systems and concentrating on human developed systems, we can see all of this works the same way.

I believe this is the true nature to everything which exists. Everything. All which is, begins with nothing and ends with everything.

Atheists often use the argument about death being just like before we were born. I used this argument before after it was told to me when I was younger. This would mean that the system is to begin with something and end with nothing. This contradicts everything we know, and would also mean that the system of life is very flawed.

But that atheistic view is helpful on shedding light to my theory. Because I want you to use a metaphor here. Imagine that the human being is the universe. If you can imagine to the time before your birth, you imagine NOTHING. You see only blackness, the absence of light. But there is a cause to why that nothing becomes something, in our case it is sexual reproduction.

The theory that the universe was born by means of a sexual reproduction is neither here nor there. We don't need to know what the cause was. Yet. That cause is probably through a system we cannot imagine yet. All we need to know now is that like us, it started with nothing.

We need only history and science to see how evolution and the systems of nature got us to where we are now. There is some controversy as to whether or not higher sentient life forms assisted our evolution. I do not argue this, as it is most certainly possible.

Though we can only attribute what we know, I ask people to fathom as best as possible that the systems outside of the planet are so old in time that time no longer exists. Time is also a system which for us is still in a state of imperfection; as are we. Humans are also not the first beings to achieve consciousness. In fact, I think we are quite far behind other universal life forms.

So imagine these life forms in whatever form you wish, but as part of the universal system of all things there is imperfection in the beginning. This imperfection of life begins with death, flawing its system. So as to balance keeping the cycle alive, life was made eternal for the conscious.

This will also bring an understanding to the concepts of heaven and hell, and why people who don't believe go to hell...which is not the Biblical description. Life which gains a consciousness of the universe and its systems is a very special thing. Most of the posters on this board could be considered part of this specialness. As to bring balance, this consciousness awakens the capacity for understanding that love, compassion, gratitude, and all things which are good are the fundamentals for further developing any system (including ourselves). This is what we call enlightenment. Becoming one with the system. As part of its design, eternal consciousness became a perfection.

Whether it be one or many, an eternal consciousness which evolved to the state of developing its own systems (JUST LIKE WE HAVE) created life from imperfection. This planet has been destroyed and created a certain amount of times. The plan was to create a system which could create a system which could create a system. The cycle of the cosmos.

All life which come into consciousness and understanding of life and the systems has achieved the next step to its perfection, and therefore by way of the universal soul system, is granted eternal consciousness to continue its system of development after its physical life. This development has no time constraints and depends strictly on the individual soul. Because it "believed" and practiced the fundamentals of the system, it continues on.

If the development of the soul system does not take place entirely in the "Afterlife," this means reincarnation is part of the system and a soul which did not achieve enlightenment will experience a dark realm of their conscious or remain in the earth's astral plane until it reincarnates. This system is developed to awaken understanding. Much like a parent teaches obedience to a child. Not by punishment, but by discipline. If a child refuses to obey, the discipline continues until obedience is obtained. Again, this is all a system and it is innate in all things.

Through the enlightenment, the conscious continues to grow and experience things which are inconceivable to the human mind. Think of this like "God training." Though there is no sense of time, experience and knowledge is obtained by will and evolution and enlightenment continue until the conscious is completely one with the universal system and achieves complete perfection.

It becomes God. You become God. So it is that you continue the systems with your own system, and the cycle repeats and repeats. There is no ending. The basic understanding is that the system and the meaning to all things is to begin with imperfection and achieve perfection. We already know this to be true, we just need to understand how very important it is and how it connects with everything in existence.

Well I can also theorize that our understanding of "nothing" is not its true form. There's more to learn beyond the physical world and that is where I believe those complex answers that we can't seem to access through thought or scientific evidence await. But you're right about there not actually being nothing, as nothing is only a weakness of the ego. I was just using it to paint a picture of how systems work. "Nothing" could technically just be the idea lingering in space until it is implemented. Through the process of reincarnation we have technically experienced life at least 8 times if we go by the Mayan 9 step evolutionary system of consciousness.

  It's kind of like living inside a box that we know will one day open, but have absolutely no idea what is really on the outside of it until we are there...and then once we thought we knew everything about that box, what is outside of the box offers entirely new information to learn.

But for now we just need to concentrate on the box and make it bigger and better for everyone else. Or leave figuring whats outside of the box to the guys that think they will never get out.

Just based on personal opinion, I think the information derived first. Kind of like if your mind existed on its own without a consciousness. What do you have? Complete chaos. And from chaos is the infinite amount of information from the universe which is completely unordered. And from that realm of floating chaotic information existed order which in its conception established a unique relationship of systems through the "sexual reproduction" between order and chaos.

Through those systems eventually came the universal consciousness and eventually the life systems, which over mass amounts of time developed conscious lifeforms which evolved to the point of developing even better systems that depended upon life...and the systems and cycles just continue.

Through this theory, everyone's idea of a conscious God means that at one point it was indeed highly imperfect. Upon reaching perfection, it created the system which we are involved in now. We will return to it and also one day achieve perfection to continue the systems of the universe.

This all makes complete and perfect sense to me as the universe depends upon our evolution to perfection to continue its infinite structure and keep things going, and through the process of every one's own unique realities we each establish unique worlds which contain the basis for all the systems. To begin imperfect and achieve perfection.

I think it does have a beginning. I form that opinion just based on observation. I think of consciousness in terms of being aware and self aware of existence, and not just functioning on instinct. There are lifeforms on this planet which do not have consciousness as I perceive it.

The other day there was a spider in my room, and I decided I was going to scoop it up and put it outside rather than kill it. As I touched it would only move for a movement. This was a weak defense capability. Insects just don't function the way mammals do. They react almost completely on instinct. This is their design.

But even we at one point did not contain the consciousness we have now. It was formed over time. This to me is evidence to say that consciousness as we know it (thought, reason, ethics, etc) is developed through my theory of systems. Consciousness is part of perfecting a life form, so if all things begin imperfect then consciousness can not exist from the beginning of something. Or rather, it does exist but it is in a more imperfect state.

Thats really the long and short of it, anyway. Everything which exists begins imperfect and gradually becomes perfect through a well designed system.

But the next question would be, does the perfect conscious (God) have to exist before a system? I say no. As we are imperfect and yet we develop systems. Nothing can be created perfectly on a first try. But by implementing a system (structure or order) it can be achieved.

So as for where everything began, my theory is not so different from the Big Bang, only that I conceive that order was derived from chaos, thus creating a balanced system which gave the universe consciousness and then from that universal consciousness came the systems making up what we know.

My question which can't be answered now though, is is the designer of our system the original universal consciousness or is it a consciousness that the universe created through systems before ours? 

I wonder how many heads are swimming 

Well, I can't comment on the theory other than to say that we tend to change our theories as we get older and gain different perspectives.

But I want to re-post a story I described several years ago because I think it has relevance.

I used to work for a guy who was a hard-bitten cynic.  He scorned the whole idea of an afterlife or God and didn't have much use for those who believed in such things.  He thought they were naive along with a bunch of other expletives I won't repeat here.

One day he came into my office and shut the door.  He wanted to talk.

He told me a few nights ago he was in his bedroom getting ready for bed and as he was lying down, he had an overwhelming feeling to look up at the far corner of his room.

He saw only a hand.  But he said it was the most beautiful hand he had ever seen.  It was not human, and he instinctively knew it belonged to either Jesus or an angel.

The hand was like alabaster, and one of the fingers was pointing at him as if to admonish him. 

I'll never forget what he told me next.....he knew that if the entire figure appeared, he could not bear to gaze on it.  It would be too beautiful, too magnificent, too glorious for his eyes to witness.  He said he knew he would have to turn away, to avert his eyes. 

His mind would not be able to comprehend the figure and as I recall, he was not filled with peace or love like the stories we read, but instead he was severely shaken.

Mind you, this is from a guy who was an atheist up until that night.

There were some things going on with his personal life at the time that were unseemly.  I won't go into them here, but he interpreted this vision as a higher Being admonishing him for his behavior.

I never had a chance in subsequent years to discuss this with him again.  The agency reorganized, and in a building with more than 5,000 employees we never crossed paths again long enough to talk.

So my point of telling this again is that theories come and go, but in my opinion not even angels have full knowledge of the nature of God. 

Or if they did, words could never convey it.  It's like a person having an NDE.....they consistently report that for a brief second they "knew" the truth of all things and knew it intuitively, but forgot all of it upon returning to physical life.

So I don't think too much about various theories, because I think the ultimate truth is so awesome and inexplicable that the most we can do is nibble at the edges.....if that.

R

Hi Beau-

Yeah I agree.  Live and let live.

The Golden Rule is All.

R

I completely understand the thing about changing theories over time, and I fully expect this one to do the same. It is a system in itself.

Really, the main thing I expect to see changed on this theory is my perception of the afterlife and how it works. What I find to actually be true and not even a theory is that everything does indeed work as a system, and everything does begin imperfect...to our knowledge. So thats not to say I won't one day realize that "God" was born into its existence as perfect, but for now I theorize that was not the case, just based on what I can detail in this world and what has been detailed of the solar system.

The whole "system" aspect is just a way to help others understand that everything is designed a particular way and it never reaches its full potential at the beginning of conception. Never. Time is a very important factor, and that also possibly sheds some light on why time even exists. Something perfect would no longer require time at all.

This also helps me understand the design of the physical world WITH time. Time is factored into the equation just for the purpose of allowing the system to develop. Without time, nature would be incapable of its job. Time is what allows for events to occur.

I don't really even think that there is any place existing without time. Only that the time is possibly altered from the way we know it. Time is just a natural appendage of the universe, so to speak. It can bend itself at will.

I find it weird enough I'm even creating theories at my age. It's unbelievable how difficult it can be to find someone to talk to. Haha. People generally like their lives and their minds to remain very simple. Which is fine, but I feel simplicity is going won't be as popular for a lot of folks in the future. This increase in our consciousness is spreading.

It's easy for ME to understand, but it's difficult for me to explain. What I'm in the process of doing is finding ways to help people understand. I could look for complex ideas and explanations by diving more into science, but I choose not to take that route as 1) It's more work that I don't care to do and 2) It would take me longer to understand, and I think science is just a way to explain what we already understand but need evidence to support. And 3) Explaining something scientifically to people isn't usually any less mind boggling than presenting something they consider "surreal."
Usually they just don't care either way.

Science isn't really evidence at all to show that nothing spiritual exists, as I think what is discovered through science can be discovered even in the spiritual world. Science is just finding out how it works, but is not yet to the point of reaching past the physical world.

But it bothers me that more people don't want to care. It's what I see as the big problem to most of our problems. People are so concentrated on the material world and their material lives that they never once consider why any of it is possible and why its possible. Faith isn't enough anymore. People need to KNOW what they believe in, or at least further their belief.

Me caring about that and caring about wanting to make a difference to how people view the world and their lives is part of my consciousness. I just can't ignore it. I want to find a way that makes a difference.