Before a person ventures on the journey of letting go of his (or her) ego, he needs to seriously consider whether doing such a thing is possible, and what it would mean to do so.  When he tries to determine this, it would help if he didn’t assume that the people who claim to have lost their ego actually did so.

I’m not talking about overcoming a self-centered way of being because it is fine to do so. However, a person doesn’t do so by coming to the conclusion that he doesn’t exist as an individual. He does so by understanding the importance of living according to love and gaining freedom from the patterns of mind that prevent him from doing so.

A non-dualist might say, “just as you can’t find a particular part of your car that is your car because your car is a compilation of numerous parts, you can’t find a particular part of yourself that is you.”

Our experience shows that it is quite fine that a car is a compilation of numerous parts, because as long as one operates in a harmonious manner, it will take a person where he needs to go. The same is true with the various parts of ourselves. As long as they work in a harmonious manner (minus viewpoints that cause us to look [or not look ] at ourselves in a false way), we’ll get to enjoy the benefits mind and the creative aspect of being provide.

Actually, the car analogy isn’t complete, because unlike a car, source energy has been utilized so that numerous souls exist as distinct parcels of consciousness that are capable of being aware of how they make use of the creative aspect of being.

I found that when I got away from the approach of trying to overcome my so-called ego, and instead dealt with the spiritual growth factors I needed to deal with, my spiritual progress improved significantly.

Is it ironic or "telling" that some people make a big deal out of supposedly overcoming their ego eventhough they claim that such a thing doesn't exist.

Maybe its all in interpretation. Because I think consciousness still includes your self consciousness. Just the aspect of it that is no longer selfish. I would get pretty confused about all the talk of getting rid of the ego and started basically imagining consciousness without the self consciousness...which would basically mean the end of self and the existence of...well just whats outside of you. So the body dies...and the self dies...then all thats left is what? It kind of spun my head around because I couldn't find the logic.

But regardless I understand how it works because I've felt it, and its nothing to fear. The self doesn't leave, it just merges with the consciousness and its like many people have described...you're leaving behind a shell. BUT there is a part of you which does have to "die" in a sense and it does this pretty naturally. That's that part of people when they die they experience that terror of what has transpired. That I suppose could be called the ego. It's a weak aspect of the self that desires control. You can't transcend with that. You basically just have to be free and feel free, and you don't have to die to achieve that.

StoneColdTrue:

I suggest that you don't allow people who claim to be enlightened get in your way of determining what's true. You'll save yourself a lot of time and trouble if you don't buy into their ego loss business. I speak from years of experience, and I know of other people who have found the same.

Your existence as a unique soul is a beautiful gift, so treasure it. You don't have to see your so-called ego as non-existent to become less self-centered and more open to sharing love with others.

P.S. Just so there is no misunderstanding, I didn't mean to imply that you are self-centered. Much love and respect to the unique and precious soul you are.

Another P.S., Have you ever noticed that people who speak about their near death experiences don't speak of having to overcome their ego when they return to this world? They mainly speak of making a positive contribution and growing in love. One would think that if overcoming one's ego and becoming enlightened is what is required as self designated supposedly enlightened people claim, the light beings people meet during  NDEs would say so.

Be wary when people try to turn you on to their gurus and idols.

Hello Sergio:

Thank you for sharing your email.  I hope you don't mind, I  provided some comments in brackets below. Most of my comments are positive.


Most people teaching advaita have little experience beyond their awakening. So what they say, and know, is very limited. My first awakening was what they refer to as enlightenment, but being a curious person by nature, I kept going because I wanted to fully understand why we humans were not aware of our oneness all the time. That questioning, plus the years I spent before awakening, led me to see and understand far more than most advaita teachers. Awakening is the opening of the door, but what is beyond the door is infinite.

[[About 30 years ago, while I was in the Army, as I walked about while on guard duty, I very clearly understood that who I am can't be defined and limited by my body based existence. Nevertheless, I never considered myself enlightened, and even today I have imperfections I need to work on.

I believe it is a mistake to make statements such as saying one is enligtened, because people make all kinds of associations with such a statement that are inaccurate.

I agree that most people who teach Advaita have little experience beyond their awakening (if they actually had one).

I agree it is important to not limit one's self to what Advaita teachers have to say. Many people do so. It's a shame.]]

Few, if any, advaita teachers really understand what the ego is and how it came about. If they understood more they would see that although there is no such thing as ego, or a separate being, there is individuality. The ego dream is just a misunderstanding. When one goes beyond it, there is still a person, a brain that is capable of understanding very clearly, and it can become in touch with a deeper reality that is Wisdom. When the mind is free, we can experience things that most people don't. One of those that has pointed out to me that consciousness can exist without the body  is when I have had experiences of traveling to places many miles away and seeing and being conscious of, what is taking place at that time. For people who have never had this experience, it seems impossible, but when you have it happen, there is no questioning its reality.

[[I agree with most of what he said above, except the part of there being no such thing as a seperate being. Perhaps this factor can be clarified by concluding that he is simply trying to say that when it comes right down to it we aren't seperate from each other despite our unique experiences.]]

It goes a lot deeper than that and would take a book to just point out in an intellectual way, which would still leave the reader without knowing the fullness of it.

[[I agree that it is hard to come to an understanding with a few words.]]

[[Below I inserted brackets within the paragraphs]]
For lack of a better word for it, life is MIND. [[Ok, this is part of the answer]] It is as flexible as thought and just as creative. [[ok]] When one starts to see this, you realize this is the fact of being. [[ok]] There is a seemingly solid reality, but if you understand, and even science knows this now, you see what a creative flow this creative MIND is. [[ok]] Then when you understand how the ego came about, the picture becomes very clear. [[I'm not clear what he means by this last sentence. Perhaps by ego he means when we get lost for a while and forget who we are spiritualy.]]



As the human brain evolved and the ego dream developed over a very long time, we were also creating a level of consciousness beyond what we can see or experience most of the time. [[I'm not certain what he means by this. Perhaps he means that we develop ourselves at levels beyond what we are conscious of.]] The ego brought about this false sense of a separate being, when one awakens you realize that was just a dream put together by the mind. [[I'm not certain to what extent he means this, I'll say this. Sometimes people get so caught up in their lives that they lose touch with how we are all parts of a larger self.]]  When people don't understand the real cause of ego, they just think there is nothing and no entity in any form, therefore there can not be a conscious life beyond the death of the body. I agree that there cannot be a separate being that goes on , just as there is none now.  [[I don't agree with this last statement, he says diffferently elsewhere. Perhaps it is a matter of what he means by separate. Going by some of the things he says, he doesn't mean it completely.  Many Advaita teachers mean it completely.]] But as the ego evolved,it was also creating a reality that went beyond it dream. [[This point was made earlier, same comment]] This is a far more subtle state of being that few will see. If the mind still believes and acts out the ego dream, it will do so again. There is no soul traveling from life to life, but the force of habit will cause this illusion to reappear over and over until the mind awakens and sees what is going on.  When that happens, it breaks the pattern and the mind is set free. [[Going by what I've been able to figure out eventually an incarnated self finds its way back to its higher self/disk, and another self is projected as needed. Therefore, I don't agree with what he just said.]] It is not an ego, but it is a Life that has capacities, intelligence, etc. It is a creative pattern, a cause and effect within MIND. [[Despite what he said earlier about reincarnation, this last part sounds okay.]]

Life is relationship. Every thing is creatively changing and being influenced by every thing else, but all those influences are the same being. We are a perspective in relationship. All the forces of this wonderful MIND have come together in such a way as to create what we are as consciousness, and that can only change, it cannot end. [[sounds good]]

In the book "The Tibetan Book Of the Dead", they say that many of the practices of Tibetan Buddhist are for training the mind to stay awake and aware even while the body sleeps. By doing so, they are preparing for death. In the older teaching of advaita, not the neo-advaita that is so popular today, they talked about how at death whatever one believes they see in the afterlife. They do not deny an afterlife, but they do point out it is a dream. For those who really believe they are this ego with all of its fears and desires, then it will come back to play out that mind game again and again. [[Same reincarnation comment as before, I don't get the impression that he has had an experience with his disk]] But by being conscious of what is going on and not wanting anything, one can live a conscious creative life. All of what I have written here is an overly simple view, but it points to far more than the words if one is open minded and free.

What you are cannot end, only change. [[ok]]

I hope this helps some. If I were you, I would pay little or no attention to advaita teachers. [[ok, ok, ok]] I have yet to read one of them that really understands. [[I agree]] Some of them may be awake, but that is not enough, but I think most of those who say they are awake are just hiccup teachers that got a taste of reality, but not a full meal.  [[There are a lot of people including Advaita teachers who have had spiritual experiences. Most people don't declare that they are some sort of spiritual master after having such an experience. For whatever reasons, Advaita teachers claim that they are, even though they have more to learn and more spiritual growth to go through. By choosing the path of being a guru of some sort, they bring their spiritual growth to an end. Many of them become quite corrupt.]]

[[I don't believe Wartella has it completely right, that's just how people including myself are. I believe it is fine to share information with others, just as long as we don't present ourselves as being infallible, by saying something such as we are enlightened.]]

I felt like posting these lyrics would be appropriate because they were one of the first sources which really opened me up to an understanding of the soul concept.

Parabola by TOOL

We barely remember, who or what came before this precious moment.
We are choosing to be here, right now. Hold on, stay inside...
This holy reality, this holy experience. Choosing to be here in...

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal-- all this pain is an illusion.

Alive... I...

In this holy reality, in this holy experience. Choosing to be here in...

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal all this pain is an illusion.

Twirling 'round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving 'round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this
chance to be alive and breathing,
a chance to be alive and breathing.

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember; we are eternal,
all this pain is an illusion.

I perceive the lyrics as the context referencing the soul's recognition of its existence within the physical body, and contained from its true form and yet accepting the containment as a gift and a unique experience with which to grow.

It seems you got to be enlightened before you find another enlightened one.

Spooky