When Bob Monroe mentioned his 'going out of the body' prior to OB travel, it usually got some mention by him at the time.  With you Bruce, you just seemed to chuff off to the Focus levels and contact stuff as if being out of the body was a 'given'.  Was it?  You never seem to get to the OB stuff, (at least in your first book) which is (for me) the big deal. I get into great altered states and some energy experiences, but have no sense that I am in these states as an OB experience.  Can I take from your accounts, that if I forget about OB practice, and just keep penetrating altered states, pushing the boundaries in the the Focus levels with the CDs, that the OB condition will just naturally arise? I did Gate Way and other programs back in the 80's after reading Far Journeys... I'd really appreciate your comment on this.  I e mailed Marina Felix with the same question, but though having your books, she says she hasn't read them yet, so was a bit unclear on what I was trying to say - or the point I was making.  So far, your book 1 has been very helpful.  Fun stuff eh.  Regards, John Swinburne Qld Australia