Conversation Board - Retievals why are we needed to help?

Alan McDougall

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Retievals why are we needed to help?
Feb 25^th, 2009 at 6:23pm

Hi, to All,

I Remain perplexed as to why we people still confined to our mortal bodies are supposed to help another soul into the afterlife. How can theyget lost, I did not during my NDE

Read Psalm 21 God seems quite able to do this function without our help

Anyway there is the angel of death who is really a kind and loving fellow who performs this function , does he really need our help?

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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Rondele

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #1 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 11:57am

Alan-

Here is a paste from my post on the Spiritual Communication thread. It is relevant to your question.

In another thread, Don pondered, why guides would not be in a better place or spiritual state to help stuck people then we, the incarnate.

Don, you should re-read Howell Vincent's book Lighted Passage!

For those who don't know, Vincent was a Presbyterian minister who published the book in the 1940s, during WWII. His daughter Rea and her husband were killed in a car accident during their honeymoon.

Vincent had several contacts with Rea after her death. Here are some pertinent passages about retrievals that both he and Rea were performing. There are lots of insights here!

"Immediately after th tragedy of Pearl Harbor, I became conscious of Rea's presence and cooperation whenever I prayed for those killed in battle, that they should be given light and be enabled to follow that light up to the Father. AS I was inviting the bewildered spirits who had gone out suddenly from earth life into a condition for which they had only a little knowledge.......I became conscious that Rea was with me, that she was leading crowds of spirits from battlefields and bombed areas.....She was cooperating with me in prayer vibration to meet the world's most crying need."

"I do not know how essential we mortals may be in this cosmic gleaning which Rea and many others carry on daily. We learned that the physical humanity of us can aid these bewildered multitudes of spirits where great and good spirits may not help. (Italics mine.)

These words from Rea to her father: "To join us in the work for which we were called (ie retrievals) is the greatest gift you can give us. Your prayers and faith are our credentials with the lost. As we approach these bewildered deadwho know not which way to turn,we bid them look into your hearts for the credentials that validate our service to them.

"The reason for this is that they cannot see us clearly, our atmosphere or environment of light is too bright for them. Often they have more difficulty than living mortals have in seeing us understandingly." Italics added.

"They are still of a slow, mundane vibration of life, and so they have no trouble in seeing you (ie Vincent), and they carefully scrutinize your motives. The love and good will for them that they see in your heart, as you lift them to the Father in prayer, assure them of our sincerity, even though they cannot see us."

So here is a story of retrievals, called rescues, that was going on in the 1940s along with an explanation as to why living humans are in a better position than are helpers to help those who have died, especially in sudden and/or traumatic conditions.

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Justin

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #2 - Feb 26^th, 2009 at 12:56pm

Hi Alan, i agree with what Rondele posted. I wrote something similar, also on another thread. I believe its a matter of vibration resonance. Everything runs according to vibratory frequency, and because of the inherent like attracts, begets, perceives, etc. like law which the Creator of this Universe built into this system, and if you understand how this law operates then its easy to understand why humans are needed in this whole process. I believe some few people incarnate less for their own spiritual growth, but more for Retrieval work both in the etheric-emotional stuck levels, and in the physical level as well.

It's not so much a problem or matter of a guide focusing in the slower vibrating dimension, but the stuck person's ability to perceive them because even when the guide does focus in that similar focus level, its really not of that vibration (as the stuck person) but a higher (faster is a more accurate term) vibration than the stuck person.

Remember that it works one way, meaning the faster vibration can perceive all that which is slower in frequency than itself, BUT the slower vibration cannot perceive that which is faster until it likewise raises itself to a similar frequency. "Stuckness" means essentially, locked into a limiting, slow vibrating frequency within the consciousness of self.

So, no matter how hard the guide tries to get the attention of said stuck person, it can be very difficult just because the stuck person is more or less "blind" to the guide's presence because many guides are of super faster and refined vibratory levels.

A human comes in, because many stuck nonphysicals can still perceive physical energies--because in many cases they still think they are physical.

Physical is slower vibrating than even stuck nonphysical levels.

See? That's why stuck people can perceive us much better than they can perceive most guides. That's why humans are often integral to this process because we can make the stuck person more aware of the guide, in various ways, both consciously and unconsciously.

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Ginny

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #3 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 9:41pm

Hi Alan,

Isn't much I can add to the excellent explanations of Rondele and Justin--so just a couple of thoughts that came to me.

Our beliefs have very real power. When some have no idea they've passed from this physical state of awareness, when they not only believe they are still alive but have no clue that anything transpired to permanently alter their situation, they can remain in that alive-in-the-physical belief. The only folks they perceive are those who still have a in-the-physical feel to them, such as retrievers. I have encountered a few stuck after death who were able to perceive sudden movements or fleeting glimpses of nonphysical somethings in their periphery, but it only seemed to compound their fear, unfortunately.

All of us getting stuck here and there, being retrieved...helping in retrieving others, realizing that no matter what areas of consciousness we focus our attention into, it's all a part of this great adventure we're zealously moving through.

I have great respect for your religious beliefs, Alan, and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way...but I've often wonder if Jesus was a retriever, on a massive scale. This earth life system is one of many belief systems, and I believe the only way to get anything out of it is to go all out and really get involved, be all the people/characters we can be, live the worst and the best and to the fullest, party down

...and this also means probably getting stuck here and there. Out of love and understanding did he endeavor to get our attention, to remind us of what to avoid, and what to embrace, to free ourselves?

Much love,

Ginny

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LaffingRain

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #4 - Feb 27^th, 2009 at 10:27pm

Hi Allan. I'm agreeing with Ginny's insight.

however my 2 cents for what it's worth is that no matter which side of the veil you perceive yourself to be on, dead or alive, people need people.
A retriever helps their own evolution as much as a retriever helps the being retrieved because we are all connected as one.

in the same way smiling at someone in a physical situation helps make that person's day.

retrievers themselves could be considered death angels if you like. it's only words with a subtle twist.
keep in mind we are all lost until found by love. god is love and we are a part of that love.
how can they get lost? because of what they believe is true about themselves as Ginny said, it's all in what they believe.

beliefs create your own reality circumstances. here or there.
eventually all move on. family members are there, even if unseen. physical retrievers just speed things up a little, with love.

because people need people. every one is friendly on the other side, retrievals are normal.

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Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #5 - Feb 28^th, 2009 at 2:16am

[colo

r=#000000]Guys,

Are these lost souls the result of sudden death, like a soldier having his head shot off and as a result having no time to realise that he has crossed over ?

Thank you all for your good comments

As far as retrievals go, I have experience seeing people in the very last moments of dying but not actually yet dead at the time

It is these traumatised people that I have attempted to help

Alan

[/color]

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Alan McDougall

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LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: Retievals why are we needed to help? Reply #6 - Feb 28^th, 2009 at 10:41pm you are a retriever Alan. remember the lady you helped out of her twisted body? that was a retrieval
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devayan

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #7 - Mar 8^th, 2009 at 2:56am

Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 25^th, 2009 at 6:23pm:

Hi, to All,

I Remain perplexed as to why we people still confined to our mortal bodies are supposed to help another soul into the afterlife. How can theyget lost, I did not during my NDE

Read Psalm 21 God seems quite able to do this function without our help

Anyway there is the angel of death who is really a kind and loving fellow who performs this function , does he really need our help?

Alan

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Awareness is the Divine Key

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devayan

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #8 - Mar 8^th, 2009 at 3:13am

devayan wrote on Mar 8^th, 2009 at 2:56am:

Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 25^th, 2009 at 6:23pm:

Hi, to All,

I Remain perplexed as to why we people still confined to our mortal bodies are supposed to help another soul into the afterlife. How can theyget lost, I did not during my NDE

Read Psalm 21 God seems quite able to do this function without our help

Anyway there is the angel of death who is really a kind and loving fellow who performs this function , does he really need our help?

Alan

Yes Alan I am also perplexed by the way souls are seemingly lost when discarding their mortal frame..Some of what I have read makes alot of sense..about those who sleep deep in their belief of annihilation .My brother who is an Adventist could easily fall into that endless sleep,he believes it so strongly..But what of those who seem so lost??Wandering souls..We live in a Divine Universe...I also don't understand how souls can be so lost..I mean what goes on "up there" if souls are lost/trapped in their ignorance..My question then can be..What happens to them if we as retrievers don't find them ??Are all destined to be "Found"??What Divine Plan is set up that they be found??Is there one??Is this some random finding??Or is there a structure that ensures all lost souls will be found??So?? what is the cosmic plan here?Perhaps Bruce could give us some insight.Are all lost souls found?? and in the end how does this happen??How could Divine Providence allow any souls to be left lost or eternally asleep??I feel we as earth bound humans all too easily try to explain these concerns from am earthly/physical realm...I feel there is a lot more we need to learn here.
LOve Devayan

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moonsandjunes

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #9 - Mar 8^th, 2009 at 5:48am

I see a retrieval as a random act of kindness, while others seem to be on a mission. The ability seems to be one we are born with, or blessed with -- the mind journeys are educational for all participants. No one has ever explained it to me, out there, except to show that all experience is connected in bizarre ways. Perhaps retrievals are only one of many ways in which human beings affect the larger creative process in which we coexist.

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« Last Edit: Mar 8^th, 2009 at 9:31am by N/A »

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #10 - Mar 8^th, 2009 at 5:52pm

Nice comments from all of you guys

I realise that this thread should really have been started in the Retrieval section, but after reading what is discussed there made me realise that I lack knowledge in that area to participate meaningfully

I have investigated the near death phenomenon in great detail and have not found even one case where the soul was lost

But please don't get me wrong, simply because I have not been used this way does not mean that retrievals are unnecessary or do not happen

The closest I have come to retrieval a soul, is just before death, I have helped persons accepting what has happening to them explaining in a kind way that they are passing over into the AFTERLIFE

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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betson Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 3445 SE USA Gender:	Re: Retievals why are we needed to help? Reply #11 - Mar 9^th, 2009 at 11:41am Greetings, it seems that we all go in whatever direction our beliefs take us. The important factors must be to take kindness and consideration into whatever realms we find ourselves. Bets
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Beau

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #12 - Mar 9^th, 2009 at 4:31pm

Could it also be that we perceive our imaginations to be partitioned off from each other while we are here and if that concept carries over into the afterlife for someone then it would be difficult for them to realize something that is happening is not their imagination. I can see how one could get lost in that respect too...but it all feeds into beliefs, I guess.

This is a great thread. Thanks to Alan for starting it and such good replies. I think I really like the open mindedness of the whole thread. It's a real treat to read.

Yours,
Bo

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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Retievals why are we needed to help?
Reply #13 - Mar 9^th, 2009 at 7:30pm

Hey Bo

Quote:

This is a great thread. Thanks to Alan for starting it and such good replies. I think I really like the open mindedness of the whole thread. It's a real treat to read.

I have been elsewhere for a while and a nice friendly comment like yours makes my heart glow

I still like the idea of "The Lord is my Shepard". Rather than "John etc etc is my Shepard" Cool

This smiley is a little like my real image

Devayan

Quote:

My brother who is an Adventist could easily fall into that endless sleep,he believes it so strongly..But what of those who seem so lost

These believers that we have no souls or spirits really irritate me. I have debated this type of nonsense with a Jehovah Witness believer. He believes and nothing can move him from his belief that we do not have a soul but are just a bundle of chemicals mixed with water

When you die that's it, except if god has retained you in his memory and recreates your mortal body in the resurrection

I tried in vain to get over to them that a memory of you in gods mind and a copy of your body would be just a copy and you would be gone forever

I am sure if they insist that this is the truth god will give it to them what they so dearly beieve and on death they will simply cease to exist.

Much of the afterlife is what we imagine it to be?

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: Retievals why are we needed to help? Reply #14 - Mar 13^th, 2009 at 2:48pm Hi Alan, you asked if the afterlife is what we imagine it to be. I'd say yes to that. but go one step further to say it's even more than we imagine it to be. hope you are well and happy over there in Africa. waving at you!
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