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Re Hitler etc. (Read 13100 times)
recoverer
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Re Hitler etc.
Oct 15th, 2008 at 2:02pm
 
This morning I received some spirit messages that I seemed to understand while they were communicated to me, but forgot them as soon as they stopped being sent. They included thoughts and visual imagery. I believe I can trust these messages, because I was connected to a being that radiated love and peace when I received them. Plus, I just about always make contact with divine guidance during the hours that proceed my getting out of bed.

I tried to recollect the messages that were sent to me, and some things occurred to me. I'm not one hundred percent certain that what I came up with is accurate.  When considering what I came up with, I had the mind set of not limiting myself to finding out only what I want to find out. I allowed myself to find out what's true.

I believe that sometimes the most loving thing to do is to allow ourselves to become aware of certain kinds of information, even if this means becoming aware of information that the compassionate part of our self's don't want to become aware of. If we don't allow ourselves to become aware of unpleasant information not only do we prevent ourselves from obtaining knowledge that will enable us to help, we also allow our heart chakra to be blocked.

We incarnate into this World because it is one of the ways in which we learn to manifest in a tangible manner. Before we take part in a means of learning, we are souls who lack the knowledge of how to manifest in a way that provides our souls with something to be aware of.  One of the key lessons we try to learn is how to love. People who have near death experiences often state that one of the key reasons we incarnate into this World is so we can learn to live according to love.

If a person spent most of his life learning to be an angry, hateful, malicious, irreverent and self-centered person, this person probably won't have the attributes he needs when he moves on to the spirit World. If you attempted to cleanse away the negative attributes of such a spirit you might find that nothing is left over after the cleansing process is completed, because while occupying a human body, this spirit didn't do anything to develop positive attributes.  

Some people speak of the transformative effect of a life review. But if a spirit doesn't have any positive qualities to begin with, you won't have anything to work with. You can't make a chocolate cake if the ingredients you have don't have anything to do with chocolate cake. I understand that people who go through life reviews state that they become aware of the suffering they cause other people to experience. However, unless a spirit understands at least a little about compassion, becoming aware of how it caused others to suffer might not matter. Consider the way of people in this World that derive pleasure by causing others to suffer. If it wasn't for the fact that they are aware that they are causing others to suffer, they wouldn't derive pleasure by doing so. I figure the same is true of a malicious spirit. Such a spirit engages in malicious activity because it enjoys seeing others suffer.

There is also the matter of how we are connected to all that we influence. If a person did nothing but harm and influence other people while alive, this person's spirit would have a history that is full of regrets. Perhaps in such instances reincarnation is called for. However, a spirit would probably have to be able to advance enough so it could be prepared for another incarnation.

Some people might state that there is more than negative attributes a negative minded spirit could rely on. Each of us has love as our base. I wonder if this is an accurate viewpoint. Perhaps love is an energy level that doesn't belong to anyone in particular, but can be experienced by any soul that learns to live according to a way of understanding that allows it to open up to such an energy level.

Bruce Moen wrote that some souls can't be retrieved because they become too separated from PUL. Some people might wonder why don't the divine powers that be just cleanse away the negative thought patterns that such a spirit has accumulated? Perhaps they don't do so because they understand that if you did so nothing would be left over but a spirit with no attributes.
   
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« Last Edit: Oct 15th, 2008 at 6:44pm by recoverer »  
 
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juditha
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #1 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 2:34pm
 
Hi recoverer  There are some out there in the world what do get a kick out of seeing others suffer because of there actions toward others.
I remember when i worked in this factory,i was very withdrawn ,very quiet and living in my own little world of suffering and i had invented this door inside my mind so that if anyone put me down as a person and hurt my feelings ,it would go straight behind my door and my door is still there,it is the only way i could cope with the constant put down of those in that factory because i was not like them laughing and joking all day, but though they hurt my feelings i would still smile at them and ask them how they were, as my door would not let me think of what they had said to me because my door would shut against the hurt and it still does.

Oneday when i was in the factory this man came up to me and he said"Why do you smile at them Judie and ask them how they are when they constantly put you down as a person"and i just looked at him and said "I do that because you have to give a bit extra love as theres not enough to go around"and he just smiled and walked away,i dont really know what he thought of my words,he perhaps thought i was mad but i felt good inside for giving out that love even though that was really hard to do sometimes.
Ive always tried to keep the love in my heart for others even though i feel sometimes,they dont deserve it

I beleive there is a life review and that all who are delibrately unkind to others will feel what they gave out and will then feel remorse and start to move on towards the love what waits in the spiritworld for them,i feel we have all hurt someones feelings in our life and felt sorry about it afterwards but its those what hurt  someone and feel nothing at the time or afterwards that make this world unhappy to live in.

Love and God bless love juditha
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recoverer
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #2 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 6:46pm
 
Juditha:

I believe you took a good approach with your coworkers.
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blink
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #3 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 7:18pm
 
Recoverer, how can a spirit be left over with no attributes?

It is hard for me to imagine that a human being could conceivably 'never' have a sense impression or a thought or an emotion which might ripple through the heart of 'God' and be worth preserving. It is hard for me to separate the human personality from its experiences, and its own unique characteristics.

I don't feel that it's necessary for me to sort all that out, however.

It seems to me that intention is a tricky item to define. Don't so many create harm while intending good. And there are happy 'accidents' like the lucky one who is born with a 'pleasant' and 'honest' face and just gets treated better all his or her life.

Just makes me dizzy thinking about it. Must be for better minds than me.



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recoverer
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #4 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 8:02pm
 
Blink:

What I wrote is quite different than what I usually write.

People develop all kinds of personalities.  It is possible that somebody like Adolph Hitler didn't develop any positive attributes. If you were to negate all of the attributes he developed, what would he be left with?

Perhaps a way exists where he could develop new attributes of mind. He'd have to stop clinging to the attributes he developed.
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blink
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #5 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 8:25pm
 
Yes, seems like it might be hard to distinguish him in a crowd, then.

just pulling your leg, blink Smiley
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #6 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
Juditha said: I do that because you have to give a bit extra love as theres not enough to go around

___

Smiley
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LaffingRain
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #7 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 9:15pm
 
Hi R, everybody.

there's a thing called grace descends on every soul that has reached the bottom. I assume, or conjecture, as I don't know for sure about Hitler, I'm not sure about the reports a few channelers say of going to visit with Hitler. I think I'm not interested enough to do that.

but the point about grace, I conjecture Hitler may have bottomed out. that's where there's no point in living. needless to say, it is awful to see nothing is worth living for. In this case, there is a grace that takes care of that person.

It's beyond what I can write about. but we can contemplate on the words of a great hymm which always goes thru my mind..
to explain what grace is:

"I once was lost but now am found..how precious was that grace that saved a wretch like me..amazing grace how sweet the sound..
____

I'm willing to bet whoever wrote that song is now an ascended master because of that grace, and because of the suffering of that soul and of bottoming out.

there are many among us who do bottom out, and that's when they start to perform their special function in this world, whatever that is, of lowly or high station, doesn't matter to God. grace falls on the just and the unjust in that sense.

we question about what god is, when we make god into our image. grace is the best way I know of to talk of god.
otherwise, looking to those who are our heroes, who were here in the flesh.
we say God is. Then we cease to talk.
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #8 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:56pm
 
Recoverer,

"This is a true and very profound message indeed and I agree with it in totality."

(so much so I am going to save it and credit to you recoverer)

"It is my view about the fate of Hitler stripped of all my deep anger about him and stated in a logical sensible way".

Recoverer you should as soon as you wake up write down messages like that one, as you know if one does not the dream message might just seems to desolve somehow

Take Care

Alan
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spooky2
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #9 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:39am
 
I think there is an underlaying structure in each person which is not totally affected by one earth life. So, when a person leaves the physical, and enters fully the nonphysical, it could turn out that most, if not all, what this person did in the recent life, was bad, but this recent life is not the entireness of what this person is. The evil may be due to the circumstances of the recent life.

However, this is not negating the possibility of a personality structure in which simply no resonance for love is left, no "perceptors" for love. Then, this would be a lost soul, as described in Bruce's fourth book.

The question of a soul without attributes is an interesting one. A person is defined through his/her deeds, memories. However, there is this "I" function which primarily enables one to be a person, by relating perceptions and memories as "mine". This happens way before there is an intellectual person who can reflect about his/her own certain attributes, it is something babies and animals have, too, by simply having the ability to be affected, to feel joy and pain, as it requires this pre-personal and pre-worded "here", "this happens to ME"; otherwise there only would be perceptions without a perceiver. So, it might be possible to have a soul without attributes.
   Looking at experiences in meditation, and what others write about extraordinary states of mind, such as NDEs, and divine apparitions, it makes some sense. In the end, haven't we to detach from our memories? Aren't it our specifics, our personalities, which hinder us to go back to the source? When we assume the possibility of a melting with all that is, without the loss of the "me", it's only possible when we divide the "I- function" from the memories, so that we can melt into one being, with all our memories, and still being "I".

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #10 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 6:59am
 
Recoverer,

Quote:
Some people speak of the transformative effect of a life review. But if a spirit doesn't have any positive qualities to begin with, you won't have anything to work with.


I keep bringing up the life review and how it would affect a dark soul like Hitler. In every case I received no response from the forum

Surely the life review that Hitler would have to endure would be as close to a hell as anything I can imagine. At the life review every event that he was accountable would be replayed objectively and subjectively in actual time he would feel the pain, sorrow, desolation, hopelessness of every victims of his evil ideas.

Thus he is simply judged by his own actions in life, not by a wrathful God

Alan
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #11 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 8:40am
 
I'm willing to bet whoever wrote that song is now an ascended master because of that grace, and because of the suffering of that soul and of bottoming out.

Rather appropriate for this thread - the guy who wrote "Amazing Grace", John Newton, was a slave trader who continued to trade in slaves for 40 years after the storm that initially got him thinking on the subject of grace.
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recoverer
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #12 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 1:45pm
 
First, thank you the responses.

Second, as I wrote in my first post, I'm not one hundred percent certain, and I'm trying to figure this out.

I basically believe that all of our souls start out in a place with a lot of love.  We lose track of this love to varying degrees when we incarnate in this World.  Sometimes this happens because a child, perhaps with unloving parents, doesn't receive the love that all souls want to receive.  Such a child will find another way to cope, and this can lead to a negative way of being.

Perhaps a key question is, what does it take to learn about compassion? Once we get to the point where we care about others, we're on our way to the light. Perhaps once a spirit learns to have compassion for itself, rather than making use of some means of coping, it will learn to have compassion for others. It'll take a clear look at the first events during its bodily life that caused it to close itself off from love. Once it opens up to love, it'll be able to receive love from the spirit beings that try to help it, and as Spooky suggests, it'll start to remember what it knew before it incarnated.

Even if this soul was completely negative while occupying a body, it might've noticed how some people tried to share love with it (sorry about the "it"), and might've noticed how people shared love with each other.  Such exposure could influence a soul on a level it doesn't become conscious of until it start to open up to love.
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #13 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 2:02pm
 
Alan,

I'm wondering how much ones own perspective has to do with their life review. To a lot of people Hitler was a monster. To a lot of German people he was a savior. What was Hitler to himself? Did he do all those things because he knew it was wrong or was he able to completely justify it all to himself? Does one get a chance to argue ones reasoning during his or her life review or is there a cosmic standard that is not open to argument?
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Re Hitler etc.
Reply #14 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 2:03pm
 

Recoverer and others,

If we really look truthfully into our most inner being, into exactly how our minds, thoughts and souls, then we should realise how imperfect we are when compared to the sublime perfection of God.

Nothing we do in life can ever match even his minimum standards. At present we are finite and mortal and God is infinite and immortal.

This gap is the void where the grace of God reaches down in love to pull us up to his sublime love and perfection. We can accept this offer of grace or embrace it with the love he extends it to us.

Or reject it like Hitler id and face the consequences

Alan

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