Greetings,

Down here we're previewing our life review from a single point of view that is ours alone, plus some empathy for a few others who were 'done to,' but mostly as we see how they reacted --still our own point of view.

Up there the life reviews are seen from broader consciousness, -- a more all-encompassing consciousness shared by our Higher Selves and our Disk families, those who have interacted with us and as us through many lifetimes. They're familiar with our long-range goals and what we've done before and so can providee reminders of how our latest efforts fit.

In addition to those we directly 'did to,' we will find out the rippling effect of further ramifications. This is not to blame us for the problems of the world but to verify that energies we exert have extended effects.

I got off topic by not throwing Hitler's name in there. I think he does go through some of the same processing but probably briefer since he wouldn't have much support to discuss.
Please don't compare your life review process with that of any tyrant or murderer.

Bets

With karma, it either is, or it isn't.  One can ask what a tyrant comprehended, but the result is the same; actions cause reactions.  Cause and effect.  Since punishment is meted out by our own divine spark, it is not a matter of the universe somehow judging a person who harms another. 

If by saying that Hitler was not cognizant of the evil that was done under him, one questions if that mitigates the end result (the extermination of millions), the answer is; no, it does not.  In life and the afterlife, we are responsible for our actions. Our core being knows this - and the golden rule "do not do unto others that which you would not have done to yourself" (or do unto others that which you would yourself) holds true. 

Since time is not linnear in spirit, I think it is a moot point to question if Hitler is roasting in his own personal focus level or not while we are here, in this time and space.  Those who seek that answer are looking for a celestial jurisprudence/punishment system which is imposed externally - that does not exist. 

Matthew

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/10/16/heroes.sarandon.mapendo/index.html

This story seems to fit the topic.

love, blink

Matthew hit the nail on the head when he said: "It is more about evolving our consciousness toward love, and toward the natural path of love, which is the path of God."

What seems to be lacking in this thread is intention, which motivates action.

Sometimes we think the bottom line is about the judgment of morality, what we personally and as a society accept as moral/immoral action, but it’s about intention, which is the motivation behind the action that determines the quality of consciousness. The concept of morality is simply a learning tool that has evolved from consciousness for the purpose of providing opportunity/potentiality for quality/improvement of its growth/quality of its love. Morality is not the end all because that only leads to a limited path that goes nowhere.

It is impossible to accurately know anyone’s moment-to-moment intention that motivated an action by the results of that action, including Hitler’s. No one can truly know what is in another’s heart and mind based on the outcome of an action. We all have cross-purposes, mixed intentions. I’m sure Hitler was no different. His positive intentions (if any – no one can know this) would have benefited the improvement of his consciousness.

Kathy

I don't believe it is a matter of negative lessons that are needed. It is a matter of some people making poor use of their freewill.

"FART!" Why did I write this? Was it a part of my life plan to do so, am I so psychologically conditioned that I don't have any self control, or did I make use of my free will in a poor way?

Hi Recoverer and all    I remember reading this story of this man who had a NDE.He was really evil towards people and he did not care how much he caused suffring on the earth,anyway while going through his NDE he was walking past this river and in this river there were these souls sreaming and holding there hands above this river they were in,he was really scared

As he walked a bit further this spirit,who was a good spirit reminded him of all the things he had done and then this man went through a life review and he felt all the pain he had caused to others and he felt this remorse of what he hads done and he cried,he then came back to his body and he was changed ,he treated people with a loving heart and also he gave to charities and is now a counciller for those that have got problems.

Hitler should have had an NDE and then he would have gone through the life review and came back to earth and not did what he did,but then again he was so evil that a lifereview probably wouldnt have worked,i really beleive that hitler has not moved from the lowest plain because he to scared to go through the light of Gods love as he would have to face up to his actions.

Hi Hitler you evil sod
   You cannot even face God
You belong where you are in a cold cold zone
To be there all on your own
On earth, you did ask for this
Its a pity a snake didnt give you a kiss
Because on this earth ,you'd have been no miss.



Love and God bless   love juditha

It's a tough one this Hitler topic, and one we've explored before. I guess it's hard to be prescriptive about what might have happened to him, in that how you see it is going to depend on your beliefs as to the nature of the afterlife process. Not that our beliefs may necessarily be that close to the reality either...

If you take the ACIM type view a loving God did not create a reality in which events like WW2 and all the other horrors seem to happen - we (as in the collective ego of the beings separated from him) projected it as a means of suppressing our awareness of separation, and out of a mistaken fear of punishment for it.

As a result these events have no absolute reality, and any wrongdoing (non loving behaviour) is forgiven even before it occurs. If we could accept this then we would no longer feel the urge to project this reality, so rebirth into it would not occur - we would simply return to God/Spirit.

The problems develop in that most of us (and especially those inclined towards egotistical and non loving behaviours) cannot accept this at the deeper levels of mind, or even (usually) at the conventional intellectual level. The result is that we initially (as a result of our initial enjoyment of the freedom of the afterlife) create very positive experiences, but sooner or later the guilt kicks in (basically in the form of the life review - which may be something we ourselves create as a result of the separation of our awareness/essential self which then experiences the contents of our  memories/personality/ego) and we start to experience  negative stuff.

The resulting fear and possibly horror we generate at our past actions (our essential self truly 'sees') propels us into rebirth, with the resulting very high levels of horror/fear in the case of serious wrong making likely our rushing into highly undesirable life circumstances  - and so the cycle continues as these circumstances drive us into further wrongdoing.

As talked above I guess mitigating factors like being a part of some sort of learning process motivated by spirit to assist our escape and arranged prior to birth (where spirit uses the circumstances of the reality we have created for the spiritual growth of many - but did not ab initio create the events), or unknowing error committed out of a lack of wisdom with genuinely no intention of harm, or a balancing of positive and negative outcomes, physical or mental incapacity/disability, or simply being a catalyst that triggered an already latent tendency in a population, or being a more or less realised person may well have an effect - maybe reducing the depth of our horror at review, and our fear of retribution - and hence may make possible rapid learning without rebirth into undesirable circumstances.

Intention as Kathy says is probably an important determinant of the situation.

Against that very fearful beings with no trust in the existence of any reality other than the physical may refuse to move on out of this world - and hang about for as long as they can as ghostly entities - possibly even trying to live off those still in physical life. Such beings may also have in life overridden their spiritual sight (such as it was) with a deliberate intention to do wrong - masking it, and making their fear even more intense.

Buddhism uses different language, but teaches something pretty similar about the bardos and rebirth - conceptualising it seems the fear and horror that we experience (at deeper levels of mind than we are normally conscious of) as the karma that not just drives us into rebirth and determines our birth circumstances, but also follows us into and on an ongoing basis creates our life. (logical enough if you accept that mind creates all)

Both systems suggest that karma/fear/guilt at separation are self rather than divinely inflicted, are capable of gradually being dissolved/lessened through appropriate spiritual practices like meditation (which by calming and creating space in the mind makes space for spiritual intuition/assistance from Spirit to get past the fear and resulting mental babble into awareness) and contemplation of teaching (which inculcates a correct 'view'), and are only truly transcended with enlightenment. (or the end of all belief in relative/dualistic existence, and true spiritual sight)

It's possible of course to see it all very differently. We can posit a God created Universe, and see it as a learning environment designed to create experience or some such similar output of value.

Or we can posit the existence of a God that punishes sin in proportion to its severity, and rewards good with a ticket to heaven.

It's surely hard to see Hitler as deserving of anything but love, compassion and understanding. He was born into unique circumstances which conspired with his personality and his belief in the use of power and force to bring the worst into existence, but it's not like it's very likely that it made him happy in life, and it's hard to imagine how he entered the afterlife without considerable issues to resolve unless he somehow received a lot of assistance or was a lot more realised than we're inclined to credit.

Please don't take offence at this, but even presuming that he was the proverbial monster we should perhaps be careful of desiring his damnation. First off the possibility is that we're simply attacking a projected and suppressed aspect of our own mind (there is only one mind), secondly we're training ourselves in an unhealthy and unloving attitude of mind, and thirdly we're simply reinforcing the possible belief of such a being (again actually an aspect of our own mind) that that love is not a viable basis for living.

Better that we forgive, and seek to envisage the positive/love informed  outcome we'd like to see to his situation...

Matthew and Ian,


Your quote Matthew
Quote:


Matthew and Ian,

Thank you both for your astute posts.

Well the worst hell is to be isolated from God. The unimaginable loneness and hopelessness is beyond description and this is the hell I said Hitler found himself in when he awoke on the other side.

This is the dark place I saw him in a sort of place of waiting, not a very nice place at all.

I don’t know if he had to remain there for a moment or an eternity. God is able to stretch a pick second into an eternity or your whole life is one flashing immeasurably tiny moment.

Don Berserk has said in previous threads on similar subjects that some souls are unredeemable and are annihilated by God in the after life. He could be right

As for very bad people not having a life review here you are wrong Matthew, I have a friend who was a member of the Nazi like apartheid police state in South Africa, he did some very very bad things related to racism just like the Nazis did (but not as bad!!)


Then he was burned in a gasoline fire to the extent that the flames rose 20 feet in the air. He tried to run to a water tank and he was called the furnace man by the local media.

Anyway this event made him turn his life around 180 degrees and he became a loving moral god fearing man as a result

Although he was by no means a Hitler he was a hateful racist that abused the South African people of color

He dead as a result of his burns which were so severe that they were third degree burns over all his body except under his feet

He had a deep and profound life review where he had to relive all the abuse he had done to those innocent people in detail and one by one objectively as if he were the suffering person himself

So very very bad people have life reviews and that is my pint

If you like you can googol his name is "Willie Sauderson" and you will read I am not just fabricating my story to make a point

Alan