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Poll Poll
Question: What is most important:

Happiness    
  1 (14.3%)
PUL    
  1 (14.3%)
Happiness and PUL    
  2 (28.6%)
PUL is more important than happiness    
  0 (0.0%)
Happiness is more important than PUL    
  0 (0.0%)
There needs to be a healthy balance between both    
  2 (28.6%)
I don't know at all    
  1 (14.3%)
I constantly doubt about it myself    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 7
« Created by: Member unknown on: Sep 18th, 2008 at 5:09am »

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Happiness and PUL (Read 5116 times)
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Happiness and PUL
Sep 18th, 2008 at 5:09am
 
There are plenty of earth-dilemma's.

One of these are when you have to give up your own happiness to be loving.

But is it always a loving gesture towards yourself to give up what makes you happy? (Sometimes, you give something up for somebody and they haven't even seen/appreciated/understood what you did)

I mean: Isn't it as important to be loving towards yourself, as much as towards somebody else.

Life-situations sometimes prevent you from having both: Love (PUL) and happiness.

How much sacrifices is one supposed to accept in the name of Love?
What is the price of love?
Should there have to be a price to have and be PUL?

I'ld very much like to share my opinion about a matter which is really important to me.

Much love,

Sonia
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 9:05am
 
Hi Sonia,

I can't vote on this because from your comments that accompany it,
I see it comes from a premise I don't understand.
Or    I don't think you understand PUL.  Undecided

Now that I have ways to offer PUL (Pure Unconditional Love) to others, I'm happier than I've ever been !

Why would I be unhappy because I give PUL ?

Bets  Smiley
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:06am
 
betson wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 9:05am:
I see it comes from a premise I don't understand.
Or    I don't think you understand PUL.  Undecided

Now that I have ways to offer PUL (Pure Unconditional Love) to others, I'm happier than I've ever been !

Why would I be unhappy because I give PUL ?


Bets,

I understand your questioning, but I believe my questioning is proper to my situation.

I wanted to be PUL. To be PUL, I wanted to experience it and/or see a practical example of it.

The reason I wanted to experience it and/or see a practical exemple of it: was to understand it truely and deeply, and to be able to apply to same ways of being in my life.

So, as I intended to be PUL as best as I know, I made much sacrifices for the people I loved. I define sacrifices, as the action of  the giving away of things which were really important to me (and made me happy), but that I found less important somewhere than the experience of giving/being love.

In a way, I think I wanted/hoped somebody would love me as much as OR more than I loved them.

Somewhere, I hoped that I would be thaught to be more loving, by giving love.

But it is not what I experienced.
When I gave everything, I experienced rules being set out, of the way I had to be, to be loved.
I experienced, that when I would ask for some understanding, I would be thrown away without love, by the people I loved.
I experienced that the more I gave (from love), the more was asked (without a reasonable limit).
I experienced to have to make choices, between being loving or giving away what made me happy, out of love, to the people I loved.
To summarize: I did not experience PUL, but rather the contrary.

I feel kind of tired, now.

Maybe, I think, all that love I saw, comes at a too heavy price.
I question much my experience on earth.

I am not really sure what I should do, to do right.

I like giving love, but I experienced that while I gave love, it destroyed part of my life. It is not the purpose of love to be destructive is it? Why then does this happen? I don't understand.

I wonder which lesson I am supposed to learn from that.

I always thought that giving love was supposed to be an improvement.

I just seek to understand.

Sonia
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:30am
 
To summarize:

I wish I were more competent:
- in knowing how to deal with emotions in general
- and especially in matters of love

I don't feel more competent. I doubt a lot.
I too often don't know the right thing to do.

I wish I met people who instead of judging me for my lack of knowledge on these matters and exclude me, would instead take the time to help me understand how to be different.

I experienced not being good enough for many people because of that. I believe that, if each time I am not good enough, and get excluded by "people who know about feeling and love", I shall never learn from them and I will stay trapped in the same vicious circle.

I am scared that when I am loved, it is on condition that "I am what makes that other person happy". I am scared to be excluded for not being suffiently good enough.
I am afraid that when I AM not enough loving, I will be excluded for my lack of love.

I don't know anymore how to improve my situation.

I am trying everything, but I feel alone on my quest. I feel misunderstood.

I do not understand why a quest for love is so hard.

Love is supposed to be the most constructive feeling that exists.
Why do I see so much destruction around love and the quest for love?

I do not understand, or I fear to understand a truth that I do not know how to handle.

Sonia
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:41am
 
Oh yes, I remember now.
You told of this before but I avoided it
because it was too painful --

[ "When I gave everything, I experienced rules
being set out, of the way I had to be, to be loved.
I experienced, that when I would ask for some understanding,
I would be thrown away without love, by the people I loved.
I experienced that the more I gave (from love), the more was
asked (without a reasonable limit).
I experienced to have to make choices, between being loving
or giving away what made me happy, out of love, to the people
I loved.
To summarize: I did not experience PUL, but rather the contrary.
I feel kind of tired, now.
Maybe, I think, all that love I saw, comes at a too heavy price.
I question much my experience on earth." ] end quote from Sonia.

Yes, I allow myself to understand now.

Could we get rid of any % where you tried trading material goods for love by saying that the links between love and physical gifting are not direct, and no one truly knows how they work  ?  So we just have to simplify it to say it was a lesson that material goods cannot be traded for spiritual gifts, a very painful lesson.  
I've tried it.  It didn't work for me either.
I regret that we are not sufficiently warned that this doesn't work.

Then we are left with the part where you gave love and got none or less in return.
I'm not wise enough to know how to say this, but it has to do with a larger flow of love than we can control or even comprehend. Each of us is in this flow in a different current at a different place. Others not in the same current cannot trul join us even if they do teach us lessons.

I have togo now--will be back later to attempt this. sorry

Bets

I'll PM you


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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 3:52pm
 
Sonia:

I believe that you're strong interest in PUL shows that it is moving within you. This World is a challenge when it comes to living according to PUL and finding people who live according to PUL. This being the case, I don't believe we should underestimate the effect of our trying to do so even when it seems like we don't succeed at times. There is also the fact of how there are many spirit beings who live according to PUL, and we aren't seperate from them.

When it comes to giving, it is important to make certain that guilt doesn't become our guide. I've found that when I get around guilt I find a way to give that feels good.

There is also the factor of how there are times when people ask us to give what they shouldn't ask us to give.
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 7:21pm
 
hello dear light Sonia. you are mentally trying to conceptualize what love is, because, as we discussed earlier, you are very mentally driven.

I sort of understand, as I am also prone to "think too hard."

so be sure to take time out from thinking and nurture your inner child, go smell a flower, something which is only for you and you alone.

Briefly we discuss a lot here what PUL is. a love feeling is not the same as PUL energy, yet it's related.

the simple way to put it, is our examples of love in every day society, is that there are conditions around feeling it.

with PUL, there are no conditions around it, not for the giver, nor the receiver. You could say then that Loosh, as coined by Monroe, is as good a description as we may get, for the time being, as PUL is much more than feeling happy or satisfied. happiness and satisfaction tend to be temporary feelings for all people, spiritual, or not inclined to be on a spiritual path.

Since there is no conditions in PUL consciousness, there are no expectations of return.
not only that, it will come back around what you have given, but could come from either another person, than the one you gave love to, or it could come within future circumstance.

so when you give, whatever you give, release expectations on it's return.
this is difficult to explain. PUL must be experienced, to be able to even begin to talk of it or define what it is, yet it's like the old adage, that in order to make money, you need to borrow from a lender some, to start up your business.
then you go to the lender and they refuse to make the loan.
so you need money to make money.

In that case, go to another lender, and never give up, someone will break down and take a chance on you. eventually.

as well, there is from my pov, distorted love, this is impure love. the term PUL means Pure. that means there is not coloring of the belief system or expectations that it be returned.

that means you make a gift to someone, you don't expect them to send a thank you card, it's nice if they do acknowledge the gift, but if the love is pure, it gets sent out and then completely forgotten about, the gains of doing so.
Love, in it's purest form is it's own reward at the point of the deed.

When things appear to go wrong, there are hidden lessons in that, and then it is that we may grow tired or weary, and have to forgive ourselves for taking a risk that didn't work.
the fact that it didn't work, shows you had expectations that it would work. then that is not a PUL circumstance.

sacrifice has nothing to do with PUL. if it were, we would feel drained all the time physically, emotionally, and mentally.

the idea of PUL consciousness is basically the words of a tune I just memorized to sing titled Soak up the Sun.
"Its not having what you want, it's wanting what you got."

so it's counting your blessings, and sometimes, though we don't want to do this, in order to count your blessings you have to go back to the day your were born and start there.
for many of us here, we even go back to past lives for the answer why we suffer without love on this planet.

so the lack of love you see everywhere, its not just you, it's about all of us, we are all in the same boat to understand it.

Recoverer is telling you something true. you might want to re-read him. In the meantime, you may consider all of our talk to you, is motivated by love, the kind, that expects no return on it.
For we are keeping you in our thoughts with gratitude for your outpouring here. We are healing the separation by doing so. so gratitude is often a place to start building PUL consciousness.

Please notice our efforts, but you are not required to notice, nor to even read us.

perk up. it can't be much worse honey pie!
...

briefly, I will add, every conclusion I've made in the last 30 years is because I believe in miracles. miracles of love to transform the human being.ACIM convinced me and I proved it through the years, that we are all the essence of pure love, healing the separation we feel between people and nations.

sometimes it's not fun Sonia, it's just plain hard work to figure out who and what we are. be patient.
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 7:25pm
 
Question: What is most important:

there seem to be one missing here impo on vote:

PUL is Happiness..my vote.. Kiss

PUL.
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #8 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 5:47am
 
Thank you all for your wonderful comments.

I think you are right.

Alysia, what you wrote means a lot to me, because it helped me understand things from a different point of view.

Romain, you wrote: "PUL is happiness".
That sentence summarizes what I am trying to achieve with myself.

Recoverer, Love is indeed a very important subject for me and it has been since I am 4 years old. It is something that I was dedicated to learn in this lifetime. As a kid, I wanted this life to be the last. I think at an unconscious level, I knew about graduation and I cannot let go of the subject no matter how much it costs me or makes me suffer.

Bets, I am sorry about the hard things I say, but I know how hard things can be and I want others, who suffer the same difficulties, to know they are not alone. I want to help others to come into the light by telling my difficulties. There was a time, where I would hide in shame not the be good enough, but it is not bringing solutions AND I cannot find every solution on my own, because I am a human being and unafraid to be a human being, with its possibilities and its limits. And that's fine. I do keep in mind, though, that not everybody shows this kind of understanding.

I love you all for what you build here.

I want to be a builder too, but I need to think the right way and be the right way.

So, when I got difficulties to be PUL, I intend to share those difficulties, so others can learn with me and find solutions.

Thanks again for everything you do.

Sonia
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #9 - Sep 21st, 2008 at 12:18am
 
From my experience, to do something in order to receive PUL afterwards out of it won't work. It only works to do something with PUL, and then it is reward in itself, even when the reactions are unloving.
   That sounds not like a good advice, because it simply means for sensing PUL you have to sense PUL, but that was it was you asked, how to achieve it, in the first place. I still think, to remember a situation where one felt loved or loving as Bruce recommends is good, or if you have no memory of that kind at hand, pretend it. It sounds silly, but when we think that PUL is never absent, but always there, we sometimes though cannot properly "tune in" to it, then it maybe appears as not so far out. The basic thing is, don't think of PUL as something which has to be given to you by other people, and you are dependent on them in order to experience PUL. That would be totally wrong. The opposite is true: The more you discover PUL in and around yourself, already there, the more other people will react with PUL, too. (Some are pretty resistive though...)

Spooky
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #10 - Sep 21st, 2008 at 7:31am
 
I think, Sonia, that the perception of an ungracious reception of an individual's efforts to extend love, to extend a giving, pleasing encouragement toward another's life experience, may simply be the result of a lack of a larger perspective.

I don't know how clear that statement is. But, my thoughts are revolving around the idea that we must be able to see ourselves in a larger sense to understand how our giving (of love, material goods, or simple attention to another) fits into this world.

To create a better world we each must claim our own power and accept these promptings to love others above and beyond what we believe we are capable of doing. Of course, we cannot give, or even see clearly, if we do not care for ourselves.

Perhaps you would agree with me, Sonia, that a loving relationship is a healthy one. So, we strive to create health in our bodies, minds, hearts and spirits. We do not create health by torturing ourselves. So, do be gentle with your own heart and do be careful.

But, human beings are much more resilient than they give themselves credit for. It is always a process of creating balance in our lives, and it never ceases.

And, yes, every one of us becomes tired at times. That is when guided meditations are most useful for me. It is very restorative to be able to meditate with different instructors. I do this with cds, and my mind is always calmer and clearer after using such tools.

When we can see another human being clearly, when we begin to understand the suffering they have accepted, just to be here with us, just to be born now, human, with all the frailties that come from being born a helpless child subject to the whims of others until such time as he or she can survive on their own, compassion is reborn again and again.

It is about understanding, not about sacrifice. It is about seeing how your love fits into the big picture, how we depend on each other for understanding. Become inspired by a vision that cannot be destroyed by the pain of others.

Or the indifference.

Forgiveness is also a very important subject to focus on, when we become impatient or angry. We forgive ourselves for our weaknesses, our neediness, our misunderstandings of others, our misunderstandings of ourselves. We gain strength from the examples of others, those who were able to show us a multitude of ways in which love can be expressed.

Notice and research the great lovers of the world, the givers, the strong people in this world who have done amazing things. Gain from their examples. Take counsel from the wise and accept love from those who would like to share your world with you.

Negative thinking is a trap. It has no end. Once we are on that road we will not find the vistas that we seek, the expanded mind and heart that allow us to feel the presence of love in our every cell and in our every interaction in this world or others.

I am reminded that I have two feet today to walk on, two hands to prepare my food, a heart that knows how to laugh and cry. How different am I from anyone else? Perhaps I am very lucky, much luckier that I think I am. It is always a possibility, isn't it, that I am the recipient of far more love than I can comprehend?

Is it so for you? Perhaps all of us would like to know how to love more, how to love better, how to bring more happiness and acceptance into our lives. Perhaps all of us suffer from the perception of a lack of love at times.

How many generations suffered to bring me here into this place? They experienced their fleeting happiness here on this earth just like I do now, and they suffered through their difficulties just as I have. Without their "sacrifices" in simply being born human, I would not exist, as I am, here today.

Do we really respect how we have come to be here? Do we really respect those who have gone before us? Do we really respect those who will come after us?

Thank you for giving me this reason to think, appreciate, and respect an opportunity, today, Sonia. We are all in this together.

love, blink





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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #11 - Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:16am
 
Spooky, Blink,

I read both your posts and this is what I have to say:

Spooky: Thank you for that good advice. It is short and precise and tells me exactly the things I was pondering about these last days with the healing session.
Blink: I love the calmth that your answer shows. I agree with your paragraph about forgiveness and I believe you brought up ideas that I should cherrish more often.

I believe the hard part for me was to see so many people looking more loved or more happy than me. I had the feeling the "Universe" loved them, more than it loved me. I believe I saw my problems as some kind of punishment that I had to suffer, for I don't know what reason. I had the feeling others were less punished and I felt like I was the bad one who deserved all that.

I must originate from a catholic belief-system, because I had these thought before I was instructed catholic religion.

That is were is brought me.

Sonia
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #12 - Sep 21st, 2008 at 12:08pm
 
Sonya, If there is Pure unconditional love--- then there is happiness!
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #13 - Sep 27th, 2008 at 2:28pm
 
Sonia said: I love you all for what you build here.
____
u wanted to know what love was awhile back. look at what u just said, and see if u felt love. if you did, it was a maximal feeling of love for you in that moment. if u felt it, that is your essence. so you felt it, then u wrote it down to us. you just gave us yourself. it was a gift to us of love. we responded in like form. you are a part of what we build here. I wish everyone would know, that what we share here individually, is what builds on itself.
_____
Sonia continues:
I want to be a builder too, but I need to think the right way and be the right way.
____
u r starting to go back to childhood memories, and discover thoughts you had then. I think this is good, this way you can begin to create yourself anew. I call this doing self retrievals. you go back, you love yourself through whatever painful circumstance you went through, then you get yourself to that love perspective once more. usually, when doing self retrievals, or discovering hidden hurts back there, there is an issue which will need to be forgiven and released. I think u have the desire and ability to do this. what we do here, basically, is usually done by trained psychologists, who, if you've ever been to one, they help you to forgive the past circumstance.
_____
Sonia said:
So, when I got difficulties to be PUL, I intend to share those difficulties, so others can learn with me and find solutions.
____
thank you for sharing your difficulties, and then balancing that with the love you shared with us in your first quoted sentence. The solution you will find is that it was always there within. when we are growing like we are, the truth comes into us, and then it is as if we had forgotten, and now we are remembering what we always knew.
_____

Spooky and I express ourselves through music. What I received from his post is what I experience while on stage. (have to reread it)
I think it's a gem.
Spooky said: From my experience, to do something in order to receive PUL afterwards out of it won't work. It only works to do something with PUL, and then it is reward in itself, even when the reactions are unloving.
_____
my experience too Spooky, especially so when on the stage entertaining. if when doing an act, there is the least bit of negativity, fear, expectation of receiving love, those thoughts interfere with the fullness of creativity in the moment, which creativity is the act of giving yourself away, and is direct communication with the audience, that they are one with you. there is no reward other than in the moment which would be eternally satisfying.
_____

Sonia, I just reread this entire thread. I'm reposting a few things you said to point out the consistency of your remarks.
this I hope, will show you that your reality is being created by these consistent viewing points. you are focused in that direction.
Every day you will think what you thought the day before, and feel what you felt the day before. that is how we create our personal reality. so let me try to help you change your mind. but ultimately, the work is yours and yours alone. Blink says meditate. she has a very good post, a lot of energy is there for you, I see you accepted it.
______
Sonia: #1 negative:
I wish I were more competent:
____
here lies a negative belief system. dig down and see why you don't feel competent. release it and belief in your competency.
_____
Sonia says:
- in knowing how to deal with emotions in general
- and especially in matters of love
______
It appears your emotions have been dissociated from your mental area, as now you reveal you have emotions, and you do feel love, but you do not understand how they are related to your mental areas.
belief systems we hold, whether negative or positive, are what produces our emotions of well being, of love, or of the negative emotions. Therefore choose well what you wish to believe, from inside of yourself. be patient. we take our whole lives to understand what love is. you are simply experiencing what it's like to be a human being and rediscover, life after life, who and what you really are.
____
Negative comment #2 Sonia says:
I don't feel more competent.
_____
Sonia could have just said "I don't feel competent." instead Sonia puts the word "more" in the sentence.
Sonia is measuring competency. this is the ego voice. you don't need to feel more anything than another feels. it is not necessary to measure up to anyone's expectations of you.
______
Negative #3 Sonia says,
I doubt a lot.
_____
each time Sonia writes something down, it but reinforces the negative view, simply by the action of writing it down. Note what happens when you write something positive down. a feeling is generated then. pay attention to what you write down and how it makes you feel, is how it will make another feel.  also, doubts are creative objectives, creating their own likeness. dig deep again, find out each item in your head that relates to this doubting process. dismiss them.
____
Negative remark #4
Sonia, do you see your pattern now? it's an energy trail, you are in process of changing it.
Sonia said:
I too often don't know the right thing to do.
_____
Yes maybe so. however, you seem to be good at risk taking, and you're alive still, right? you must of did something right, or you'd be dead meat. the point is, you gotta always look for the positive, in order to build on it.
_____
Negative #5
I wish I met people who instead of judging me for my lack of knowledge on these matters and exclude me, would instead take the time to help me understand how to be different.
______
what do you think we're doing right now? playing tiddley winks?
You have been included here. but the time it takes to help you understand how to be expressing love, how to be expressing understanding is not our responsibility to you..you are receiving alot, but much of it is going unconscious.
like seeds under the snow. in your patience you will possess your soul.
_____
Negative #6.
Here we come to number 6. Already, I am feeling myself becoming drained to continue helping, and so I will need to go replenish myself. I need to reflect to you what I am feeling.
this way you can consider how others respond to you as they do, to continue focusing always on negatives. Sonia says:

I experienced not being good enough for many people because of that. I believe that, if each time I am not good enough, and get excluded by "people who know about feeling and love", I shall never learn from them and I will stay trapped in the same vicious circle.
______
But will u stay trapped? you said "I believe." Do you want to believe what you believe? make a decision to believe what you want to believe and give thanks for the ability to make a decision.
Why did life tell u that u weren't good enough?
Did you know any life to be had here is a chance to not waste it?
Many stand in line waiting for a womb. the right circumstances do not arise and so they take what is offered.
cultivate gratitude for the life that is now.
_____
Negative #7. oh please Sonia! haha! let me remind you what u said in another post.
Sonia said:
I am scared that when I am loved, it is on condition that "I am what makes that other person happy"
_____

ok heres what u said. "All I have to be is myself."
u are afraid again of not measuring up to another's expectations.
All love relationships, and even other kinds of relationships have the element of risk the same, that we will not gain acceptance full and complete within that relationship.
that is why the art of forgiveness is to be learned here.
forgiveness allows love to fruition. it is the best kind of love we Earthlings are privileged to learn. There are some relationships, that are growing, that requires using forgiveness every hour on the day until it's automatic. Expressing fear is a negative btw. but it's something u need to do until you can express a positive.
_______
Neg # 8
I am scared to be excluded for not being suffiently good enough
____
you're just repeating yourself again.
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Neg #9
I am afraid that when I AM not enough loving, I will be excluded for my lack of love.
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Well, so far nobody has excluded you. look at the facts.
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Neg #10
I don't know anymore how to improve my situation.
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Did u ever know how to improve things? I can't say that I ever knew. Life is like an experiment.
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Neg #11
I am trying everything, but I feel alone on my quest. I feel misunderstood.
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We all feel misunderstood from time to time. I think you are not searching deep within yourself enough; you are trying to get answers that can only come from self reflection on the originating belief system, sometimes found in early childhood issues. you have to change your beliefs by accepting that was what happened, and it's over. forgive the others, and yourself.
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Neg 12
I do not understand why a quest for love is so hard.
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and who told you that doing a life was easy?
____

Love is supposed to be the most constructive feeling that exists.
Why do I see so much destruction around love and the quest for love?
______
and while you're at it, why do we see child abuse and why did the Holocaust happen? your question is an honest one, but it only talks about you, as an individual, it does not address the same problem on a world wide scope. you have to admit that the holocaust was but one example of a lack of love in this, our world.
the solution lies in building our own characters to become more constructive, and concentrate on the things that remain after a war, or during peace times. think globally, not about our own selves all the time.  we are not separate beings. There is only One here.

The illusion is strong. It must be seen through. I hope you can see, I am trying to help. I do not wish to injure your thought system, as we do tend to cling unto them like they were our children.

You are changing. you seem to be having difficulty right now, but it should get smoother, if you persist in your searching.
Ask for guidance within, not so much without.

ok sweetie?  Cheesy
neg 13
I do not understand, or I fear to understand a truth that I do not know how to handle.
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you don't have to handle it necessarily, once you develop faith and once you decide to change your outlook by making the decision to do that. Each time you get a fear, it is a doubt.
doubt is fear. there are only two emotions: love or fear.
you cannot serve two masters. check your fear monitor daily.
We all want the same thing you do..love. check the love monitor daily too. find out what you are creating.
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Re: Happiness and PUL
Reply #14 - Sep 28th, 2008 at 2:33pm
 
Thank you Alysia, for your comments and advice.

Sonia
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Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. &&Maori Proverb&&&& &&
 
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