Hi Ken,
The two examples you gave of developing these abilities both rely alot on the output of your own will, I notice.
The next stages require input, a change in 'wiring' to a receptive mode. The process may take a bit of time, more time for those whose daily life requires alot of willfullness. (This 'process' is an addition, not a scrambling, and not a taking away of anything. It enhances all your other capabilities. )
'Setting your intent' to hear from a guiding spirit is like a well-worded general invitation -- we offer it and then after making sure our house is in order, we sit back and relax while waiting for the guidance to arrive.
Intent may have to be set / thought of / repeated over some time.
Getting a response took about a month or so for me after I read the guidebook. Response wasn't what I expected because at first it came in dreams that held some archtypal info that helped set some symbols useful to what was to come.
Dream gateways often open first because that's when our conscious minds offer less resistance.
Another way that helped me get further is to try 'focussed imagination,' such as pretending to dialogue with Spiritual Guides, and then letting the guidance have more and more freedom in responding. For example, ask your guidance why they haven't directly responded to your involvement
and see where it goes from there.
Much success in this!
Bets