Hi Dood. I think you're with others getting to the point there.

It's really not possible to argue for an all knowing, all loving God (whatever 'God' means) without accepting that WW2 and all the negativity in the world is happening if not to an exact plan at least within a love inspired envelope of possibility (free will as you say is presumably in there too)  - that it's all heading towards a higher purpose.

Alternatives are to argue that there's lots of nasty stuff going on that's not supposed to be which blows any idea of Godly omnipotence (it heads us towards positing an independently existing evil force/devil that gets to call the shots a lot of the time, who could even get the upper hand in the end), or that there's a vengeful old testament God which blows any idea of universal love.

It's hard too (despite heavy conditioning by propaganda that has long sought to manufacture and demonise 'evildoers' as a simple means of manipulating public opinion) to pin the blame for it all on Adolf, when clearly he'd have been left ranting on a street corner and would have died in obscurity had he not caught the zeitgeist of his time. He was no more than a catalyst.

We all reach our own view on these things and must do so, but it's possible to sort the apparent problems by taking a higher and much less personalised view.

We do much of our learning when the  urge for short term selfish advantage collides with the fact that these behaviours don't actually bring happiness, and instead lead to suffering - we're forced to step back and re-evaluate, and often come to  'see' the error of our ways. We in contrast don't often do much to get out of the trough when life is good.

From the higher view death becomes a much less significant event. When the 'unreality' of worldly events viewed from the absolute (the ACIM or Eastern view) is also factored in, then it all becomes much more like a dream, or a convincing and very real simulation undertaken for the purpose of learning or whatever.

Meditative experience suggests that while we manifest in life as individuals, that this is (as many of you know) only a very superficial view of the reality.

It's clear that Adolf did wrong at an individual level, and he presumably incurred karmic debts because of this, but he was also the catalyst of a major  global learning experience that broke down the old attitudes and social structures in a way that led the enormous awakening that has occurred since.

But no more than the catalyst. It's clear too that the war emerged out of the geopolitical situation and heavily militaristic, hierarchical  and aggression based popular attitudes of the time, that if whole populations and countries had not been stuck in an imperial world view, and not been prepared to sh1t on others that it could not have happened.

Buddhism at it's most basic level (the four noble truths) teaches that the suffering in the world arises at the most basic level from our tendency to presume the existence of an individual self, and to out of this view grasp after pleasure and survival and avoidance of pain (all an impossibility) without regard for others or for the world.

That the world makes sense when we rise above this view and become able to accept the reality of impermanence. Perhaps our task in all of this is to in this way seek to raise our view.....

Quote:

With all due respect if that statement of yours that I colored in red is true then you do not believe in Love & Forgiveness.
Lets be honest shall we?

If I remember correctly that Saul (that became Paul) was just as bad as any Hitler and he was forgiven.
In fact the point of that was to show that no one is singled out for no matter what they say or do.
All is forgiven! All without Exception!

By 'Grace Ye are Saved...'  correct? Not by any works or deeds.

This is one reason as to why I do not follow any earth religion.  Religion does not have real answers. Religion does not like to be questioned.
Religion is Static. Religion will fight change tooth and nail. Religion is not about spirituality.  Religion is about control.
And for that this is why I will always state that the Source of All Things (God if you will) is not 'religious'.

Hi george You are judgeing others on here saying we are not forgiving,God did not appoint you as judge and jury for the rest of us,God gave us all freewill to make our own minds up about things like hitler and other topics on here,and thats what we have done used our own freewill.

Love and God bless  love juditha

Hi Alan. Thank you for the compliment. To be fair to Blink I think the reference to illness was in respect of Hitler - to convey the idea that he wasn't fully in control of himself and his actions, and that he was consequently deserving of forgiveness.  I don't think there was any intention to lump any other group into the same category.

The reality I think is that even at the best of times there's very few of us in control of our actions anyway - the rather arbitrary ill/not ill distinction made by psychologists is rather questionable. Holding views regarded as normal/not normal is more like what they assess, but there's nothing very sane about how society conditions most of us to think.

We so easily get stuck in a mistaken view (in Hitler's case it was that it was somehow deemed OK to make indiscriminate use force and terror to secure the aims of one group of people over another), and can so easily spend whole lifetimes blindly playing out a dysfunctional strategy without ever tumbling to the fact that it's causing the most intense suffering for both ourselves and many others.

I didn't realise you had suffered with that form of depression, it's by all accounts such a tough road.  Thank you for sharing ...

Regarding Hitler:
It is not that his 'episode' was merely representative of any intermittant difficulty or misstep that inevitably occurs within the struggles of human development, individual or group, or even the very unfortunate destruction of so many innocent individual lives which was indeed tragic, or the wantonly selfish and violent destruction of national and international harmony no matter how imperfectly manifesting -- but it was also the unprecedented, deliberate, concentrated  attempt of a great hostile anti-divine force to actually turn back and reverse the general human evolution, to forcefully re-condition millions of human beings by hatred and perverse negative principles, to violently enslave the greater humanity and eventually the entire world in the service of negative forces of which Hitler as leader, was a conscious, willing and dedicated instrument, or possibly even the enthusiatically posessed incarnation of one himself. This may have been so egregiously a deliberate violation of the Cosmic Law and Will as to render God's Compassion deferrential to an unusual form of divine Justice - therefore it is possible that his individual soul was not given a chance to 'reform' pursuant to a difficult life review, but simply was permanently extinguished in this case. This would obviously be an extremely rare occurrance, but one that could have been deemed appropriate and enacted by One Who not only makes the rules, but Who therefore can alter them as well. No longer  having a human soul, such a being would lose the priviledge of realization and be permanently relegated to some typal world,etc., where individual evolution does not occur - or perhaps the entire 'being' was eliminated from the creation.

I never said you did Juditha.

It is obvious you are not getting what I am talking about so I will stop here...