Conversation Board - hitler is in heaven

george stone Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 857	hitler is in heaven Jun 6^th, 2008 at 12:13am hilarion says hitler is in heaven,because God used him for the return of the jews to there home land.if it were not for hitler the jews would still not have a homeland.only there bodies died,there spirits still lived.
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juditha

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #1 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 2:03am

Hi george Who is hilarion and i think hes wrong because i dont think that God would have wanted hitler to do it the way he did,because when God showed moses how to bring the isrealites out of slavery in egypt,he didnt get someone like hitler to do it ,he just warned the pharoh to let his people go,but the egyptians were not tortured and massaccared,and the deaths of the egyptian first borns was the fault of the pharoh because he was shown by God that he was there and the egyptian pharoh just ignored the signs thats why this halirion has got it wrong because it was mass murder and torture towards the jewish people and our loving God would not have used hitler in this way ,hitler was evil and God had nothing to do with what hitler did.

Love and God bless love juditha

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Alan McDougall

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #2 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 2:58am

George,

you quoted
Quote:

hilarion says hitler is in heaven,because God used him for the return of the jews to there home land.if it were not for hitler the jews would still not have a homeland.only there bodies died,there spirits still lived

George don’t believe this nonsense, we must all account to God for our actions in this life. Halarion says Hitler God says "HITLER IS NOT IN HEAVEN". This depraved mind cannot be allowed to join the family of man, until it is purged from its evil.

Also if we stretch our credulity to the limit and believe this misinformed person. God is the murderer BY PROXY for given Hitler this disgusting task of murdering millions innocent people in the most beast base way.. Abject nonsense man!!!!, just unimaginable abject nonsense.

Goerge I am not getting at you I am getting at Halarion whoever it is!!!

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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DocM

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #3 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 5:18am

Heaven is a state of mind. Focus 27 and the higher planes contain people who have pursued the path of love; love of God, and love of one's fellow man. One can not pretend to have this type of love, as in spirit we are transparent and lose our earthly masks of civility.

There certainly may be a divine plan or agenda, but this is independent of an individual's merit of being in Heaven or not. If Hitler had a consciousness which pursued love of God, and love of one's fellow man, he would find himself with those of a like mind. By perpetuating war, destruction and death, he doubtless created extremely negative karma, despite the state of Israel being created in response.

Imagine the life review of a man like that; imagine the agony of his victims who died in fear and misery. How would a soul be in harmony when faced with such a life review?

Unfortunately, Hilarion, like so many channeled entities proposes that he knows things and is an an authority on these matters. Rubbish. Oh ye of little faith! Do not follow blindly the musings of an alleged channeled spirit. Oh yeah, and you can get your own personal Hilarion reading for a fee - think about that one. Search for the truth yourself; the answer, in a case like this will be clear to you.

None of my thoughts should be taken to mean that I don't believe in spiritual redemption. It is simply that the notion of attaining heaven after committing vile, heinous acts simply because some secondary event takes place (the founding of Israel), is a ridiculous proposition.

Matthew

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vajra

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #4 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 5:53am

We had a very long discussion on this topic before.

My personal view is that he taught mankind some very profound lessons, that it was meant to and needed to happen. He was the catalyst by which a whole series of people to lived out and discovered the error of their dodgy beliefs.

There's no doubt plenty about the personality that was negative, and has probably now been shed. (as seems likely will happen in all our cases) But it seems unlikely that anybody that has watched the film 'Downfall' could not but feel a huge measure of compassion for him, and for the people caught up in that dream too - for where it brought them.

But I suspect that having done this he's probably back on track....

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blink

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #5 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 8:15am

It's interesting to me how people view Hitler, in particular, as if he was here in the room doing terrible things at this instant. People who do such terrible things can be considered mentally ill.

If a person can't be healed of their mental illness in the afterlife, what good is an afterlife? It's no better than dreaming and having a nightmare you can't stop.

I have felt the light, in dreams, and in waking states. It has healing properties which eliminate any kind of sorrow, anger, shame, etc. etc.

It is said that "God" allows the sun to shine on the good and bad alike, and it is not my place or anyone else's to say who stands there in the light of God. So, from my perspective, Hitler's done suffering for his crimes.

If I hold him down, I hold myself down. Hell really is a state of mind, and I personally feel that every human being deserves to step into the light, see how it feels, and decide for themselves if they can live in it.

Perhaps one aspect of self may choose to stay where it is, in the shadow, for as long as it likes. So, rather than lose the whole self, let go of the part which "offends" you. Is it not possible for a human being to do that? What good is an afterlife if you can't let go?

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Alan McDougall

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #6 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 9:36am

Matthew,said

Quote:

None of my thoughts should be taken to mean that I don't believe in spiritual redemption. It is simply that the notion of attaining heaven after committing vile, heinous acts simply because some secondary event takes place (the founding of Israel), is a ridiculous proposition.

Matthew

You summarized this well it is ridiculous that "God" would allow a depraved base monstrous beast like Hitler to murder innocent people in the most hideous manner just to re-establish the state of Israel.

As I previously said in an earlier post, if Hitler is not accountable for his unimaginable heinous monstrous crimes that even the basest of beasts would not do , but was just doing Gods will, “GOD HIMSELF” “I REPEAT "THEN GOD IS THE MURDERER” AND GOD IS EVIL"

I also posted about the terrible life review Hitler is going through. It seems to me some people would like the creator to mildly admonish this monster sort oh!! “Naughty naught little toddler" oh come let daddy light liitle tap on the hand naughty boy" Oh!!! dear!! Child” "now dear boy" "I love you dearly sweet little man" it was not very nice what one did my child"

"But you did what daddy asked you to do and killed off all those unnecessary Jews" "let daddy teach one a better way next time I send you to eliminate innocent people in your next incarnation"

They say the poor soul was mentally ill, what nonsense is this, I know a great deal about mentally challenged people and they are the gentlest most helpless people one can meet. Matthew would know this. Hitler was calculating intellectual genius, not mad but bad, bad, bad!!!!

Hitler was a sane calculation intelligent person who at one time directed the whole German nation and army on its first blitzkrieg defeat of Europe and nearly all of Russia on his own, total command of the whole war effort. How could a psychotic do this I ask? HE has no excuse for his unimaginable depraved reprobate acts and will account for then all maybe as one said in his life review.

He can’t join the higher soul dimensions, there and merge with the minds of pure light. The means of communication is by telepathy and all minds are open to all others. No secrets there, no rules . Imagine having to share the thought of a mind like this and that of his co-hoots. Eternity would be polluted just as earth has been by this monster.

I get really angry when I here this beast is just a perfect soul that just needs some gentle persuasion, come on how would one like him and his Nazi SS Politrsi to be your next door neighbor, especially if one were an innocent Jew, like my dear mother Elisabeth Sideraski

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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DocM

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #7 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 10:06am

Hi dear Blink and Vajra,

As I said, I have nothing against the idea of spiritual redemption. What I have trouble accepting is the notion that a person may enter a heavenly plane not because they have found the virtues of love, but because they have fulfilled an earth related plan (the founding of the state of Israel). Once dead, once there is a life review, we are faced with the consequences of the actions of our earthly life. Hitler may have had some noble goals, but his blood lust, his direct responsibility for war, death and genocide would weigh heavily on his soul. If he wished to atone, I have no doubt that a process would be forthcoming. I simply doubt that it would be quick and easy, with the karmic load he was carrying.

Blink, you are a loving soul. You have forgiveness within you, so you say from your perspective it would be ok if Hitler were in heaven. Hitler, however would have to achieve a level of PUL, kindess, compassion, love of God and of one's fellow man. He also would very likely feel the karmic debt of the destruction of so many millions and want to atone for that prior to ascending to a higher spiritual plane. The chance that he had a "get out of purgatory free" card as part of a divine plan is highly unlikely. In reports of the deaths of people of ill intent, we hear from NDEs and other explorations, that some initially find themselves in complete darkness on passing over. With the rule of like attracts like in the afterlife, I shudder to think of where ol' Adolph ended up upo passing, and what was done to him. But I digress. Could he atone? Yes. It just seems unlikely it would happen quickly - his spirit would feel the heavy weight of his earthly actions and deeds, and be so leaden, it would not make it to the clouds right away.

The afterlife process should be no different for famous or infamous people.

Matthew

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Old Dood

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #8 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 10:07am

Quote:

It's interesting to me how people view Hitler, in particular, as if he was here in the room doing terrible things at this instant. People who do such terrible things can be considered mentally ill.

Very good point Blink. (Yer Smart)
Also isn't it 'The Thought That Counts...?'

Who here has not thought of hurting someone else?
I know I have on occasion wished I had a couple of SideWinder Missiles strap to my car in rush hour traffic... Cheesy

Have not all of us at some point wished harm on someone?
What is the 'Degree of Sin' in THAT respect?
I am not justifying anything Hitler has done but, people act if he thought up and did EVERYthing.
He did have quite a large following of people that thought up some of the nastiest crap to do to people that I have ever seen.

Still, from what I have learned it is the 'thought' and not just our actions that counts.
Thought has POWER so if that is correct then when we think up something horrible toward someone else then we are no different then a Hitler.

Other words...Who are WE to judge?

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SHSS

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #9 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 10:58am

Other words...Who are WE to judge?

That pretty much sums it up for me. One little tiny match, given the proper circumstances, could burn down the entire world. I think we all have our weakness and that may tell us about a part of ourselves we don't want to face.
When I see red faced ministers screaming their egotistical slop or Bill O' reilly doing his moralizing or those purple haired floozies on TBN or anyone getting uppity or judgmental, I can turn into something that seems very 'not me' for a few minutes.
So I really have some work to do on myself in this judgmental area.

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blink

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #10 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 11:26am

Absolutely, each one of us has areas of thought and experience which are emotionally charged for us.

For example, my use of the word "mentally ill" could be considered questionable to some people, who do not wish to have their own status as "mentally challenged" compared to someone whom they consider an evil genius.

These "triggers" are the loaded guns each of us carry in our imaginations. When we feed our own "need" for justice with the emotions of anger we fall from grace. We make mistakes. We fan the flames.

None of us, as humans, are immune to this folly. But we can certainly attempt to recognize it. And we can attempt to validate our emotions without acting on them and making assumptions. Once the anger has gone, what is left?

Sadness. Once the sadness is gone, what is left?

A new beginning.

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recoverer

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #11 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 12:35pm

Well I channeled Abe Lincoln, and he told me that you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. Which group do you want to belong to?

MURDERING and TORTURING numerous Jewish people as Adolph Hitler did is hardly the same thing as sending them back to Israel. Adolph Hitler was a hateful seperatist, not a homeland reuniter.

P.S. I don't buy Walsch's scam either.

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blink

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #12 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 1:11pm

http://hilarion.com/jonchan.html

quote from Jon C. Fox, regarding channeling in general, and the channeling he does of the entity he calls "Hilarion":

"I am often asked how does one identify a "good" channeling, or how do we know which channels or spirit entities to trust. I think it is wise to apply the criteria Hilarion suggested when I first began, "By their fruits you shall know them." I recommend that people work with information in their own way, looking especially for any resonance in their hearts, and seeing if the concepts and ideas hold up over time. I put no credence on the personality of the channel or the name of the being channeled or the tone of voice or accent used. Nor do I find it important how the person channels (deep trance, conscious channeling, intuitive impressions). Nor do I look at how they came to do channeling in the first place. Rather, I ask if the experience was helpful to me, broadened my understanding, expanded my knowledge, opened up something new in me, or improved my relationships."

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recoverer

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #13 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 1:24pm

If one truly chooses to live according to love one will find that one doesn't need to throw one's discrimination away.

When we make excuses for sources such as Hillarion we don't do anybody a favor including Jon Fox. The only thing we do is help Jon Fox get on with his con game. Sometimes it seems as if it is okay to let these con artists slide, but when they say ridiculous things like Jon Fox Hillarion did about Hitler and God's supposed plan, it becomes time for people who "WON'T" buy into such nonsense to speak up.

The same goes for Walsh and his Conversations with whoever Con. I can't believe how quickly people are willing to buy into Walsh's and Fox's rationalizations for Adolph Hitler's self centered and hateful behavior.

Certainly if God and other beings of light were going to come up with a way to better this World, THEY WOULD COME UP WITH A MUCH BETTER WAY THAN THE NONSENSE WALSCH AND JOHN FOX HAVE SHARED!

It's not about being judgmental towards Adolph Hitler, it's about seeing things as they actually are.

P.S. Sometimes people put together a collection of their favorite gurus and such similar to how people collect baseball cards and other collectables.

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blink

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Re: hitler is in heaven
Reply #14 - Jun 6^th, 2008 at 1:33pm

Are you angry with God, for visiting you this way? Through human beings who see things differently than you do?

I have had to ask myself that question. But, no, I choose not to be angry, not today. Not now. It is always my choice, to believe, not to believe, to agree, to disagree, to be angry, to be at peace.

Much love to each of you, and may you, each and all, find the happiness you seek.

love, blink

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