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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of? (Read 38649 times)
Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #15 - May 16th, 2008 at 5:52pm
 
CoolYes, it would be great to be a mermaid except for the sharks. “But dont laugh there are really mermaids out there, on other worlds that sometimes swim in our oceans” And I am not cookoooooo........ daerone!!

Haweye Quoted

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Of course Alan, you are just talking of a book. No more, no less. Its just a book. The Bible is so full of hate and power. Smote, kill, destroy, rape,.....(I wonder if those who wrote it has little man syndrome?)I remember the first time i read Treasure Island. It did change me somewhat inside. Of course, it was just a book. It was a far better read than the Bible to me. Both were wrote to invoke emotion. Both very successful. I still prefer treasure Island.


Hawkeye old fella

Yes I know, I know I know, but there are some truths in it such as God is love God is light, so perhaps e should not generalize. I take you point it is a book and one hell of a book to understand thus me starting this thread. Perhaps you should reread what I originally posted, if you have sorry.

Now on your point of view (I hope you enjoy the following critque of the bible)
Fables in the bible

Fables in the Bible

The stories in the "Old Testament" are totally unbelievable, I am amazed that I was taught for so many years by people who should have known better that these were actual historical events. It is so obvious now that these are myths and fables, with no more historical accuracy than the stories found in sci-fi. I can't believe grown up people still believe in these myths, and worse still teach them to impressionable young minds. Let's take a look at a few of the more ludicrous stories.

Creation and the Fall

Ok, so nobody apart from a few fanatics seriously believes the world was created in 6 days as described in Genesis. But even if you maintain that the 6 days represent 6 ages, there are still ridiculous paradoxes that stand out. For example:

•      Genesis Plants are made on the third day, without the sun to drive the process of photosynthesis.

•      All creatures are apparently created as herbivores (Genesis ch1 v30). So what happened to the dinosaurs?

There are countless others - the Genesis account doesn't even remotely match what science tells us about the origins of the earth, however much you try to twist it to fit the facts.
Noah's Ark

This is basically a reworking of the much older "Epic of Gilgamesh". The idea that there was a worldwide flood is completely unsupported by any kind of evidence. After building the ark, God gave Noah 7 days warning of the flood. There are somewhere between 8 million and 10 million species inhabiting the earth (not including the 30 million different types of insect). Since there was a male and a female of each species on the ark, Noah had just one week to collect polar bears from the North Pole, lions from Africa, spiders from South America and tigers from India and the Far East.

Even assuming he could travel around the world at the speed of light, there would have to be an average of 30 animals per second going through the ark's single door. How did the cone beetle survive the year at sea, bearing in mind it can only survive on a particular type of tree only found in California?

Another ridiculous idea is that God created the rainbow as a sign that he would never again wipe out humanity in a global catastrophe. Are we expected to believe that light behaved differently a few thousand years ago when passing through raindrops? Only the incredibly naive can surely believe this!?

The "worldwide flood" somehow seems to have missed out the Chinese and other civilisations that were around at the same time, since they have no record of it.
Finally, the whole idea was to rid the wicked people from the world. Did it work?
Tower of Babel

The Tower of Babel myth is ludicrous - the idea that the entire world spoke a single language until God became angry at their attempt to build a skyscraper and cursed them all with different languages. Where is the evidence for a worldwide language? All ancient cultures evolved their own languages separately, there was most likely some kind of cross-pollenation as people moved around, but there is more evidence for the existence of Bigfoot than a single common language.
Joshua and the Sun

Joshua 10:12-14: It was on the day when the Lord gave up the Amorites into the hands of the children of Israel that Joshua said to the Lord, before the eyes of Israel, Sun, be at rest over Gibeon; and you, O moon, in the valley of Aijalon. And the sun was at rest and the moon kept its place till the nation had given punishment to their attackers. (Is it not recorded in the book of Jashar?) So the sun kept its place in the middle of the heavens, and was waiting, and did not go down, for the space of a day. And there was no day like that, before it or after it, when the Lord gave ear to the voice of a man; for the Lord was fighting for Israel.

Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous? Not only does this imply that the Sun orbits the Earth, but even if it happened as described and the earth stopped moving to give the appearance of the Sun standing still, the gravitational effects would be devastating. Funny that there is no record of such an incredible celestial event in the records of all the other civilisations that were present at the same time. And what on earth is the "Book of Jashar"? Finally, I was once taught in Sunday School that a NASA supercomputer had found Joshua's "missing day" whilst compiling a history of time - this is an urban myth and has been thoroughly debunked, nobody has ever owned up to running such a program.

Yahweh defeated by "chariots of iron"
Judges 1:19 Yahweh was with Judah; and drove out the inhabitants of the hill country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
So Almighty God, who creates universes at the blink of an eye, was defeated by a tribe because they had chariots of iron? Isn't it insulting to ascribe this claptrap to the Source of everything?

The genealogy of Jesus
Take a look at the two separate genealogies of Jesus as described in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. Well, actually you aren't supposed to, as 1 Timothy 1:4 says that you must "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies". There are only 4 names that actually match.

     
Conclusion
Incredibly, I was taught as a child that all of these stories were true and happened as described in the Bible. I cannot believe that the people who taught me such outrageous fables didn't have the common sense to see that this is all absolute nonsense. In my opinion people who claim that the Bible is enerrant and everything happened as stated should have their heads examined.

Thomas Paine writing in "The Age of Reason" makes the perfectly good point that the Bible is full of utterly irrelevant stories that add absolutely nothing of value: When Samson ran off with the gate-posts of Gaza, if he ever did so, (and whether he did or not is nothing to us,) or when he visited his Delilah, or caught his foxes, or did anything else, what has revelation to do with these things? If they were facts, he could tell them himself; or his secretary, if he kept one, could write them, if they were worth either telling or writing; and if they were fictions, revelation could not make them true; and whether true or not, we are neither the better nor the wiser for knowing them. When we contemplate the immensity of that Being, who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stories the word of God.

This really tickles my sense of humor " oh!! man or woman" I find it  very very fanny, dont you guys?

alan  
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Lucy
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #16 - May 17th, 2008 at 10:31am
 
So rather than trying to rectify contradictory pictures presented by the Bible, why not just argue that it is not really the word of God? A great farce has been perpetrated on us all these centuries.

The only place you can find the real answer is inside yourself wherever and however you communicate with the God of Alan.
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Lucy
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #17 - May 17th, 2008 at 10:44am
 
I think the Bible is a roadmap to understanding some aspects of the human psyche. It is a story of how we present the truth to ourselves. And sometimes we lie to ourselves.

Too bad our former resident Biblical scholar isn't currently present. He usually has some good insights to add to this sort of discussion. Taking the Bible out of its historical context seems to me to be intelectually faulty.

One part of the human psyche seems to interact with symbolic information much better than with literal information. I think this is difficult for those of us living in such a scientific age, where literal use of information has produced such an advantage in creating things to have in our lives (like the internet and all the stuff that goes with that). I don't think the stories in the Bible are necessarily to be taken literally. There is a mix of factual and symbolic.

Of course, there is the possibility that what was reported that Moses did was what was actually done. Historically, I think it may have been that when a people were conquered, the adults may have been killed off and the boys killed off and only the girls kept (as breeders of course). The issue is that the Bible proposes that Moses acted from God's word. Well it wouldn't be the first time a ruler acted brutally and then claimed he acted on the authority of a higher power. The question is, why did Moses do that? Now we really do need Don.

I think the part that is hard for you is acknowledging that the Bible may not be what it is claimed to be.
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #18 - May 17th, 2008 at 1:54pm
 
It is not my God Lucy and I never stated it was

I Quote:
don't think the stories in the Bible are necessarily to be taken literally. There is a mix of factual and symbolic.


God of Alan gosh ! I have my own personal demigod now,.

If we abandon literal meaning and try to do the impossible of decoding the symbolic, there are just about infinity of possibilities and interpretations that are impossible to unravel and decide which is the correct
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #19 - May 17th, 2008 at 2:51pm
 
well said Lucy. Alan it is not "impossible" to interpret symbology of the bible. If you choose to read this material, and it's your choice, you have to decipher it according to your ability to do that.

We all have an ego which interprets differently. the bible was written by men, not saints. they did the best they could based on their prevailing awareness.

We have need of a new bible. We're not living in those dark times.
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #20 - May 17th, 2008 at 9:52pm
 
Alysia and Lucy,

I submit to your collective wisdom. Just to conclude it is true if one uses the Bible there are as many possible interpretations as there are people on the earth, so any "Word of God" from any era would suffer the same fate, unless it was a direct facsimile from God to each person that could read and uniquelly tailored for each individual. All is subjective nothing is absolute

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #21 - May 18th, 2008 at 2:51pm
 
Alan said: "I submit to your collective wisdom."

hehehehehehehe Grin

I like the way you talk Alan. I think we both came from another century and feel like we are fish out of water once in awhile.

Somebody usually hits me when I talk like you do. Listen friend, there is one absolute, they say taxes and death are absolutes, but it's a lie. There is one absolute that change is a living law.
and one more: according to each person's discretion and heart..for myself, I will never forsake you, I will always love you and never let you down.

  Smiley
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #22 - May 18th, 2008 at 3:16pm
 
Alysia,

I like your absolute, so to contadict my own infinite wisdom, I think the other absolute is our absolute complete uniqueness. You know Alysia you are great, there never was in all eternity one just like you and there never will be one just like you in all eternal infinity. There might be someone very very similar, but absolutely identical "ABSOLUTELY NOT"

Getting a little less absolute, you are very important indeed, if you were to vanish, all existence and even god himself would vanish from your perspective

I am now wallowing in the deep mud of the philosophical metaphysics am I not dear?

love

Alan   
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #23 - May 18th, 2008 at 3:31pm
 
lol. Allen  Cheesy  you're embarrassing me but it's nice.  we are all a bit like unique snowflakes of god, some of us just melt quicker I guess.

I was wallowing around the other day with words and have a new word picture for you: Greased pig ascension.    Smiley do u think it would make a good book title?
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #24 - May 18th, 2008 at 5:13pm
 
Alysia

Quote:
I was wallowing around the other day with words and have a new word picture for you: Greased pig ascension.     do u think it would make a good book title


Well I dont know the subject of said book ,, But to put it mildy not really.

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #25 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:29am
 
Recently I had come across some interesting reading material.
For me, I took out one or two interesting things-

#1) The original holy scriptures had been manipulated already as early (but possibly at earlier date) as 325 AD by the Council.

My question is still this:
Since we find dino fossils, human bones etc. Some which reach as far back as 350 Million years back - why are we so set on "the bible" which is what at bit over 2000 years old?

#2) and if the original was changed - where the friggin heck is the original, so that someone can rewrite /correct the one we have today?  Sad

Just a thought,
Nanner
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #26 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:35pm
 
I'm not interested in bibles, but I am interested in new age material about the bible.
In Disappearance of the Universe, Thomas shows up in a future body (appearing as flesh and then disappearing in thin air) and reports his gospels were tampered with and changed and J didn't say some of the things....some of his papers were found only 300 years ago. Some were destroyed.

anyhoo, good to see my nanner back here. I was thinking about you today or yesterday, and now look, here u are, this is not a coincidence!

now u are here I can take a vacation?  Smiley just kidding. I love this place. I'm like a Jewish grandmother I guess. EAT! EAT!  Grin
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #27 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 6:49am
 
Hey Alysia sweetness,
Take a vacation - I KNOW YOU ARE JOKING ME. Vacation pink slip denied!  Wink
With so much work that needs to be done, who can hardly think of vacation, huh?

Do you have any links to the info about the findings of the scriptures?

Hugs to ya and everyone else too,
Nanner
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #28 - Jun 23rd, 2008 at 2:03pm
 
sure Nanner  http://www.garyrenard.com/

The Gospel of Thomas which was some papers discovered just 300 years ago, I think googling that information would yield something.

Gary Renard is author of Disappearance of the Universe.  the title is to mean disappearance of duality thinking consciousness. not like obliteration!
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #29 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 8:51am
 
I have just run across this forum and the subject in question. I have always had a problem with the two aspects of God---OT vs NT. Then I was lead to read a series of books written by Zechariah Sitchin who explains the difference to my satisfaction. Sitchin does not come right out and say that Yahweh was one of the "gods" of Mesopatamia but it follows when reading of the others and their jealousies and wars.
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