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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of? (Read 36246 times)
brad
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #30 - Mar 8th, 2009 at 10:25am
 
Hello Alan,
I just came across your question as I am new to this forum. I hope I'm not too late with what I believe is an answer.
I too, have been bothered by the very question you have posted. I was, for many years a student of and later a teacher of the Bible. It never occurred to me to question any of this until I finally threw off the trappings of religion and donned the cloak of spirituality. How this came about is a long story and won't be told here. Suffice it to say I have found a credible answer to the question in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin who describes the many "gods" of Sumeria and Babylon and their connections to the Old Testament writings. Although Sitchin does not come right out and state that Yahweh was one of these "gods" he strongly infers that he was. This theory can be found in Sitchin's 7th book "Divine Encounters." Also, William Brimely wrote of this possibility in his book "The Gods of Eden".
Wishing you success in your quest for Truth,
Hal  
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #31 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 8:28pm
 
Question is, what came first, the concept of Yahweh as a concrete being, or YHWH as a mystical philosophic concept?
Was the mystical vision of enlightenment the source of the biblical texts, which later were misinterpreted as displaying a concrete "God", or was the concrete God the former and older concept, and the mystical visions and philosophies imposed upon them?

As a mystic I tend to focus on the mystical vision, and regard the more worldly interpretations as delusional, but maybe I'm too idealistic and maybe Zecharia Sitchin is right, or both views are right, and the bible can be used for proving or disproving anything in any way.
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betson
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #32 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 10:50am
 
Hi Oliver,

You needn't doubt your own insights.  Smiley They are truth for you   Wink at that time.  Just as any Truth can be explained through its many layers -- physical, mystical, whatever. 

Those layers are all valid and make the spiritual adventure very exciting!

Betson
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #33 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 9:21pm
 
Hi Betson,

yesterday I asked my spirit guide about this question and got some answers:
The Father is inside. I had a vision that was very abstract. Do you know the Buddhist view of 'God'? They claim that there is no personal God, and the vision I had yesterday in answer to my question was confirming this. It is a level of reality which Tibetan Buddists call 'Rigpa', maybe in Christian terminology it is the 'Holy Spirit', it is inside, and there is no outside, or if there is an 'outside', then we don't have contact with it.
The answer about 'Yahweh' in the Old Testament was that it was (or is, I don't know if he still exists) a personal being from a different reality system ('extraterrestrial'), a comparably very big one, and he was responsible for a large part of humanity during that epoch, his task was to enforce the mental and cultural development of the humans under his influence. He was doing it for a purpose, the humans were to be used for something later on.
Would be similar to Zecharia Sitchin's hypothesis.

Btw, as I was in a receptive mood yesterday, I also tried some 'remote viewing' around, wanted to see whether the President of the USA really was guarded by psychics, so I wandered around a bit, was granted permission to pass (but only gruffly), and roamed around more, wanted to know about who has influence in the US, because I felt as if the President alone could not do what he would like to, and then I checked out the politicians, but found that they too are not that influential really, they seemed more like idealists. Then looked around more and found in highly influential positions in economy some characters that felt like Reptiles!... hmmm.... Shocked

Love Smiley
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betson
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #34 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 9:47pm
 
Oh boy!

Several people here have information on the Reptilians, but I haven't explored that myself. For some reason the search capacity of this site (magnifying glass in upper right of thread) can't find the references, regardless of how I spell 'reptillian."  Smiley  If you'll post your last paragraph as a new thread in the main Afterlife Forum, I expect you'll hear from them, more than under this thread's title.

I believe that you, your Guide, and Sitchin are right on!  Thank you for putting into words what I have sensed but never got very clear in my mind.

Betson
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #35 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 5:26pm
 
Back to the original question...
I'm currently more and more getting involved with the New Apostolic Church in Cape Town, my wife and her family and friends are all involved in church work intensively, most of them are ministers in the church, and I have seen and spoken some of the bishops, all of which were highly spiritual individuals, very open-minded and truthful and lightful, so were my impressions of them.
Now I started reading the bible, and first thing I notice is that the God which Jesus calls His Father certainly seems not to be the God of the Old Testament, and even further, the God in the Old Testament does not even seem to be one but many different ones which are confused to be only one by way of using only one word for them: 'God' (although it is 'Elohim' - a plural term - in hebrew)!
Take for instance the first chapters of Genesis: Genesis 1 speaks of the seven days of creation, and in that context God seems to be the unpersonal creator principle. In the last verse of chapter 2 and then in chapter 3, 'God' seems to be located in physical world, precisely in Mesopotamia, and seems to be a very personal being, interacting with Adam and Eve in a very personal and physical way.
Other instance, Ezekiels so-called 'vision of God': Needless to say, because it is just too clear, that he saw a spaceship which dispatched four robots that rolled around and later were collected by the spaceship before taking off again.
Reading more and more, I thought that maybe the people who compiled the bible, had some good reasons for putting so much of the jewish myths in it, although I would expect that the bible should put more emphasis on Jesus' words. I find it surprising that the Old Testament is four times as large as the New Testament.
So why do these people put these old stories of interactions between the old Israelites and their 'God' - which I think is rather not one monotheistic God but a term for the superior alien race that they had contact with. Btw, it is a well-known fact that the hebrew term for God is 'Elohim' which is a plural word.
This 'God' of the Old Testament clearly shows treats that are not divine at all, and certainly not in accord with Jesus' teachings of love and forgiveness. So in my view the 'God' of the Old Testament can hardly be the Father of Jesus, or maybe Jesus refers to His Father to be a person with changing moods and attitudes? I would find that hard to believe, although I am open for anything, even for the most unlikely possibilities, until they can be shown to be impossible or really too unlikely because of certain reasons.

So now my guess is that the people who compiled the bible wanted to show to later generations that there were alien superior races governing earth and manipulating man, maybe genetically creating man, there and then in Mesopotamia, and that these aliens showed certain behaviours in their interaction with the humans there, with the so-called prophets. And Jesus knew the truth about that, too, but he was like 'Neo' in the movie 'Matrix', a super-hero who was predicted to come to save the enslaved humanity from their slavery of the alien super-race - but it seems now that the aliens are still in control on earth, just like in the movie 'Matrix' - I don't see the whole picture yet, only some impressions and loose threads here and there, some patterns also, some puzzle pieces coming together.
Whoever is out there who also knows some interesting things about these things, please share! Smiley
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #36 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 1:59am
 
  Most want the whole enchilada handed to them quickly, and at a low cost.  Doesn't seem to work that way for us humans though. Drats, foiled again.

  My perception is that various E.T. groups have been involved with humanity during various periods.  Some are very spiritually mature and act as a guidance level.   Some are just curious and observing, some in a sense need our help while they can help us some, and some are more separative and arrogant in nature and are not a helpful force in a direct sense. 

  It seems at least a few of them have dabbled with our human genetics for various reasons.  One of the major ones is to help improve the circuitry of our physical vehicles.  Another is using our genetic material to improve theirs.  Different groups though, with different purposes.

  We were not created and enslaved by the 'Reptilians' so called.  Some of us do allow ourselves to be influenced to varying degrees, but such in the nature of the like attracts and begets like game/system of growth.  Much of our troubles though, are of our own internal cause and issues/imbalances.  But yes, there is a certain amount of influence that does go on. 

  However, the Consciousness who are the Co-Creator Gods and fully at one with Source Consciousness and PUL, would not allow full interference by these or any other groups unless we were ready to face and overcome same.  There is an interesting part in the book Cosmic Journeys where Courtney Brown was communicating with "Jesus" and the J dude says a bit authoritatively--something like that no E.T.-Human interaction that is not of the J dudes plan, will happen. 

  Re:  E.T. influence on genetics, well i have some personal experience and insight into this.  There is another self within my Disk or Greater self as i prefer, whose human genetics were altered by a spiritually mature E.T. group for a definite purpose.  This self was a sort of spiritual teacher and healer type, who was very psychically aware--much more so than even the average at that time and their average was a little more aware than currently. 

  "They" helped boost my other selfs physical circuitry, allowing for greater attunement to and demonstration of psychic and spiritual awareness within this dense physical. 

  Sometimes i wonder if my current body has been tinkered with, since my mom had a childhood illness and was told by doctors that she would not be able to have a child.  She had miscarriage after miscarriage, but it was around the time that she had a very vivid and powerful dream of being on board a craft with nonhumans that seemed familiar and loving and they were working on her body.  Around that time, she became successfully pregnant with a rather 'strange' child--her first born-me. 
   Perhaps related, an otherwise fairly accurate psychic told me that i was a Star child or seed, or something like that.  Perhaps one of the meanings of that term or concept is that i have a little more E.T. dna in me than the average?

  According to other sensitives (for example, both of Bruce's friends that he recommends on this site) and some inner guidance i've received, at some point in this life, it's probable that my psychic awareness and abilities will be fully and completely open, as to being fully telepathic, powerful healing, etc.

   I don't think this would have been as probable a development, without some tinkering on part of the E.T. group to my genetics.   I'm appreciative for their help. Needless to say i disagree with the seeming views that all E.T. influence is negative and limiting in nature.  There are many, many groups out there and they range from the most expanded in consciousness, to as limited as humans or more so. 

Btw,  I think this genetic alteration process is going on with some others as well, and has in the past, as well as currently.  Is it all positive in nature, probably not?  According to some outer sources i listen to some, there is also Reptilian-Human genetic programs and mixing going on, and it's doubtful that it's for our benefit. 

  It's interesting that my intuition tells me that many of those individuals whose human bodies have been altered and had more E.T. genetics inserted into same, well their consciousnesses actually directly came from another system--some are even first time humans.  In a sense, i'm a bit different with this since i've been involved with the Earth for long while and am not directly coming from another system (though, in a sense, perhaps some influence since i've had experiences in other systems). 

   
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #37 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 6:53pm
 
found some specific arguments for many different God's in Old Testament here:
http://www.usbible.com/Creation/AlienGods.htm
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_evilgod.html

googled for: "yahweh alien" - interesting results...


@Justin:
do you have full conscious memories?
I don't, but information comes to me nonetheless somehow, by intuitions and visions. For example, I feel a strong relationship to Mars, feel like having lived there for a long time, a few hundred thousand years ago. I still love that planet and feel sentimental about it. I don't know my alien origins in detail, only feel them, for example being a member of a telepathic race where telepathy is the normal thing, and now here on earth I find a lot of concepts difficult to cope with. Also the concept of constraints of perception and movement according to space and time feels like being a wild animal in a cage in a zoo.
Thank you for sharing! Smiley
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #38 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 7:33pm
 
now after browsing reading more material, following hypothesis:

The 'God' of Old Testament is a vicious being, very manipulative and influential, and seemingly very evil and damaging, a nightmare of humankind;

Jesus taught how to escape the negative manipulations of the Old Testament 'God': through PUL - Pure Unconditional Love.

So Jesus is antagonist to the Old Testament's 'God'!

The bible is the history of the negative manipulations of humankind (OT), and the solution (NT), and whoever compiled the bible in this form, must have known a whole lot about this!
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #39 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 1:46am
 
Hi Oliver,

  I do not have full memories--i'm more like you in that i receive info more through intuition and similar means.  It's usually on a "need to know" basis, which i was joking about in relation to my comments on enchiladas.  Plus, i've been led by guidance to outer sources which i find are more accurate than not. 

  That's quite interesting about your feelings towards Mars.   You might enjoy and be inspired by Courtney Brown's work in his two books.  You can read and/or download them for free on one of his sites.  They talk a lot about the ancient history of Mars and "Martians"--especially in the 1st book.   The first book is called Cosmic Voyages

  Thank you for sharing as well.
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Rob_Roy
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #40 - Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:28am
 
Perhaps this will help someone (maybe a little).

Christianity as we know it including the three largest groups (Catholics, Prots, and the Orthodox) is descended from the group that won the argument (war) over which Christians would dominate, with more than a little help from emperors Constantine and Theodosius I. This is the group scholars now refer to as 'proto-orthodox,' the same group that decided the canon of the Bible and made their theology mandatory throughout the Empire, with its backing, and the State was not nice about it.

Even later 'reformers' where not shy about consigning 'heretics' to the flames (after turning them over to the State, of course). Any Gnostic churches in your neighborhood? No? Now you know why. So when people speak of Christianity (whatever that is) please keep in mind the definition of that term is very much an open question.

As for Jehovah vs Jesus...I think the simplest answer is probably the correct one. They are not the same God (whatever that means), unless we can say, simply, that let's-not-stone-the-adulterer and love-your-enemies-even-as-they-murder-you Jesus would order the slaughter of innocents. Grab a box of tissue, read the book of Deuteronomy, think about the weapons of the day, then ask that 1990's cliche: What Would Jesus Do? Make sure it's a new box.

It's the proto-orthodox with their unexplainable trinitarian theology (a "mystery") who would have us believe they are the same God. In the absence of creative theological abstraction, it's obvious they aren't.

If you look at it from, say, a level of consciousness perspective, clearly the Israelites and their god (an anthropomorphic projection) are more that a bit lower on that scale than Jesus, their descendent.

Disclaimer: This is all predicated on accepting the Bible as a valid historical document, which I don't. This is why we have Guidance.

Now the conclusion: the Christian belief system, as we know it, is self-contradictory. By their fruits you shall know them.
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